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Is The Administrative Bishop Out Of Order?
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Post Is The Administrative Bishop Out Of Order? Lee Roy Brown
The Administrative Bishop gets a call about a pastor. The call was not any accusation that the pastor was doing something immoral. The call was one lady who was calling to complain about the pastor and his wife. So it would have been understandable for the AB to call the pastor and ask him about it. The overseer did not do that. He called three of the pastor’s council members and asked them what was going on “BEFORE” he even called the pastor. He took a situation that was small and blew it up by calling the pastor’s council. The result was the pastor’s council got stirred up and stirred up even more people in the church. They never had an AB call them before so this must be “BIG”. After he did all that he called the pastor to “FINALLY” ask him about the situation.

So some questions:

If the offense is not chargeable what business does the AB have calling members of the pastor’s council?

Why would he call the pastor’s council first before calling the pastor?

*. Note: This is the Administrative Bishops first time ever holding that position.

Is this just a novice overseer?

What would you do if it happened to you?
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10/4/11 10:42 am


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Post I would call it a total overreaction roughridercog
But thank you for not naming names at this time. If it is in reality an actual situation, may I suggest praying about it and letting the AB, pastor, and church go through this together rather than us continually beat on the beehive.

Just a suggestion.
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10/4/11 10:53 am


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Post Administrative Bishop out of order? Mark Ledbetter
Hang a sign on his door and call the plumber!
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10/4/11 11:00 am


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Post We don't know all the facts...but Rife Stewart
based on your description, the AB would appear to be out of order. Still, we are hearing only one side to this story. He should have called the pastor first.

I know I would be UPSET!!! if something like this happened. There is a chain to go through. He wouldn't want us calling up RC to talk to him about something in the local state, before going to the state to speak about it.
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10/4/11 11:15 am


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Post Interesting question... Rife Stewart
What training do overseers get for their jobs? A great preacher does not always make a great administrator. I know many preachers who were incredible speakers, who couldn't run a church worth a flip and were terrible people-persons.

Do they get training in how to manage conflict? Manage the state budget? Manage a staff?

Just wondering.
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10/4/11 11:17 am


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Post Re: We don't know all the facts...but Lee Roy Brown
Rife Stewart wrote:
based on your description, the AB would appear to be out of order. Still, we are hearing only one side to this story. He should have called the pastor first.

I know I would be UPSET!!! if something like this happened. There is a chain to go through. He wouldn't want us calling up RC to talk to him about something in the local state, before going to the state to speak about it.


Actually the story is much worse but if I would go there I would be outing the AB and the church and I don’t want to do that.

Actually it is like me calling RC to complain about the AB and RC calling three members of the state council to ask what is going on.
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10/4/11 11:40 am


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Post chainrattler
I would have called the pastor first, got his feedback, and then based upon how he responded to the accusation, call for a meeting with the pastor and the accusing party. If the accusing party refused to meet or didn't show, I would advise the pastor to watch his back and let it go. Keep as few people involved as possible until the facts can be determined. If the accusation proved to by true, by evidence, not just hearsay, then it would be time for the AB to involved the pastor's council if necessary to provide the appropriate discipline. Acts-celerater
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10/4/11 11:55 am


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Post Blew the guy up doyle
That very, very unwise AB, caused an explosion in that Pastor's ministry there. He threw gas on one little, negative, spark and BLEW that Pastor away.

The Scripture is very straight-up. If we have a fault with someone, we go first to that person. ABs are to follow Scripture. Everybody in this life, including the Lord Jesus and AB's too, get criticism.

In my opinion, the AB should have asked the woman if she had followed Scripture and had spoken with the Pastor before calling him.

Doyle
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10/4/11 11:58 am


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Post How in the world... Clint Wills
Did the AB get the names and phone numbers of the pastor's council? Our AB doesn't know anyone on our leadership team - except me, but that's because I am licensed as well. He couldn't call the pastor's council if he wanted to.
If the "offense" wasn't chargeable, then I'd say to call the pastor. If it is chargeable, then I'd say to go visit the pastor. Either way (and I said this in another thread) some to the pastor's aid. He may be wrong, but that doesn't mean he should be hung out to dry.
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10/4/11 12:32 pm


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Post Lee Roy Brown
When the AB finally called the pastor he asked the AB who called to complain. The AB said he swore to the lady he would not tell the pastor her name. I can promise you the complaint was basically a disagreement in ministry philosophy and petty nit picking things, nothing major at all. The pastor was really upset because he thought he had the right to face his accuser. The complaint was basically general enough that the pastor does not know who it was. So now the pastor is left wondering who is against him. Friendly Face
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10/4/11 12:38 pm


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Post Out west of the Pecos, this is how it is handed Judge Roy Bean
I'm kinda ashamed to say it, but when some skunky member who deserves some time in the bear cage doesn't get his way and starts in a whining to the overseer, most of the time the overseer will go with the church rather than the pastor not matter who is right.
It's not right I tell you what.
But an overseer will preserve the church every time because that church sends in money, pays the payment, supports missions, and it doesn't matter if the pastor is in the right.
The overseer don't want that church to be a seed in his dentures. The pastor can't make the payment, bills, and percentages all by his lonesome, so money talks and the pastor walks.

It ain't always right, but it's the way it is.

I think every church needs a bear cage to handle cantankerous members. It would solve a lot of problems I tell you what.
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10/4/11 12:57 pm


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Post Re: How in the world... Lee Roy Brown
Lord Chancellor wrote:
Clint Wills wrote:
Did the AB get the names and phone numbers of the pastor's council?


I was wondering the same thing.

Perhaps, the disgruntled member gave him the names and numbers.


This is where if I share too much of the story it will out the AB and church. The pastor got nearly 100 percent of the vote a few months ago. The AB was not happy that this man got the church and the person he was pushing did not. The church runs 225 and has tithe of 20 thousand dollars a month. The AB had their numbers because of working with the board during the time they were searching for a pastor. With some of the things the AB has said the pastor felt he had no support from the AB and the AB was upset he got the church. It was basically stated you better not mess it up. Now this is happening.

Who can the pastor go to when he has a problem with the AB. This is wrong.
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10/4/11 1:38 pm


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Post He is small minded! Mat
He is small minded! Its not his members, its the pastor's. Its not his church, its the pastor's. The pastor is the "angel" of the church and even Jesus honored this principle (Revelation, chapters 1,2 & 3).

Mat
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10/4/11 1:46 pm


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Post Re: How in the world... roughridercog
Lee Roy Brown wrote:
Lord Chancellor wrote:
Clint Wills wrote:
Did the AB get the names and phone numbers of the pastor's council?


I was wondering the same thing.

Perhaps, the disgruntled member gave him the names and numbers.


This is where if I share too much of the story it will out the AB and church. The pastor got nearly 100 percent of the vote a few months ago. The AB was not happy that this man got the church and the person he was pushing did not. The church runs 225 and has tithe of 20 thousand dollars a month. The AB had their numbers because of working with the board during the time they were searching for a pastor. With some of the things the AB has said the pastor felt he had no support from the AB and the AB was upset he got the church. It was basically stated you better not mess it up. Now this is happening.

Who can the pastor go to when he has a problem with the AB. This is wrong.


I know how some guys would handle it. They would open their mouths wide and declare what is going on thus turning on the light on the AB and those who have been calling. Then he would take those who think that such underhanded dealings are terrible and start another church outside of the movement.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but that's how some guys would handle the situation. They would not go quietly into that good night.
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10/4/11 1:49 pm


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Post bigchurchmouse
He can go to God and that is the one who can really give wisdom in the situation. I cannot imagine an overseer not calling the pastor first. If the complaint was serious enough he should have then called a meeting with the pastor and the lady with the complaint and helped bring resolution to the situation. I cannot imagine not telling the pastor what the complaint was and who made it. Only by bringing the matter out into the open could he help resolve it without causing harm to the pastor and the church. Golf Cart Mafia Capo
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10/4/11 1:51 pm


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Post One wonders what would happen... roughridercog
if the pastor took the pulpit and said, "This is what has been happening. As the membership of this church, you have the right to know..."

And then share what has been going on.

Turn on lights and roaches scatter.
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10/4/11 2:03 pm


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Post Re: He is small minded! spartanfan
Mat wrote:
He is small minded! Its not his members, its the pastor's. Its not his church, its the pastor's. The pastor is the "angel" of the church and even Jesus honored this principle (Revelation, chapters 1,2 & 3).

Mat


Even though I totally agree that the first call should be to the pastor - your reference to the pastor being the "angel" of the church is incorrect. Why would you interpret the stars as representing angels for the most part all through the scripture and then change there in the Revelation to make them represent pastors? Don't make sense at all to me. Unless you think when satan drew one third of the stars from Heaven with him to be cast down to the earth - it was one third of the pastors in Heaven. That's a scarey thought. We need to be consistent in our interpretations.
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10/4/11 3:01 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
A question: Is there an AB Manual? I know that some things seem to be common sense but is there a manual that says this is wrong? I don't know. Anybody? Acts-pert Poster
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10/4/11 3:03 pm


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Post John Jett
Eddie Robbins wrote:
A question: Is there an AB Manual? I know that some things seem to be common sense but is there a manual that says this is wrong? I don't know. Anybody?


There's Matthew 18. Should be known and practiced by EVERY Christian, especially those in authority.
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10/4/11 3:18 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Thanks, John....that was not the question. Acts-pert Poster
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10/4/11 3:33 pm


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