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Mighty Army

Surveyors Excited by COG Pastoral Loyalty

Mighty Army · Friendly Face Posts: 326 **5/21/11 8:24 pm**

Executive Council Gets Survey Report

The meeting of the Church of God International Executive Council late last month, was like none other. In the middle of Wednesday afternoon, April 27, the security guard at the International Offices announced that the council members should immediately recess to the basement of the building. Tornadoes in Cleveland, Bradley County, were now threatening the Church of God office complex. As suggested, the meeting was temporarily adjourned and council members found safe haven on the lower level of the Leadership and Communications Center building.

Thankfully, even though several automobiles in the parking lot were severely damaged by the intense hail storm, the buildings did not take a direct hit from the tornadoes. After approximately forty-five minutes of delay, the session resumed, the agenda was completed, and the April meeting adjourned. The majority of members were able to return home safely that evening or the following day. Even though the Church of God International Offices, Lee University, the Pentecostal Seminary, the Publishing House, and local churches were spared any significant damage from the storm, tragically, nine persons were killed in Bradley County, many more were injured, and property damage was in the millions of dollars.

But the storm did not darken the enthusiasm for the positive nature of the April meeting. The foremost agenda item was a report from General Overseer Raymond F. Culpepper on the Church of God Discipleship Survey which was conducted early in 2011. In order to assure confidentiality and scientific expertise, LifeWay Research in Nashville, Tennessee, was contracted to do the survey, compile the results, and prepare a report and executive summary.

A paper survey and letter were mailed to all 6,298 senior pastors in the United States and Canada on January 6, 2011. An email invitation was sent to all pastors on the list with a valid email address. Respondents could return a completed paper survey in a postage-paid envelope or complete the survey online.

The 1,521 surveys returned was an excellent twenty-five percent of the total number mailed. The fact that this survey was a census (every local church senior pastor was directly involved) rather than a sampling (in which only a “scientific sample” would have been involved) gives an astonishing credibility to the survey. Consultants at LifeWay Research were thrilled with the splendid return.

But Dr. Culpepper explained that one particular result of the survey was even more amazing to the researcher consultants at LifeWay than the stellar response. They were simply astounded at the loyalty of Church of God pastors to the denomination. No other research by this excellent organization has demonstrated this type of allegiance. When Research Director Scott McConnell was questioned further about this, he responded in a written letter: “We were jumping out of our seats to share with you that this is outstanding and worth building upon.”

Link to full article FAITH NEWS

Mighty Army

Friendly Face Posts: 326 **5/21/11 8:26 pm**

76% (actual) of senior pastors don't respond
24% (actual) of senior pastors respond
This equals rejoicing over loyalty.

The 24% loyal COG pastors who did respond mention loyalty.

This is a census not a sampling so the information astonishing reliability. Google the words difference between census and sample.
Census is not just sending a survey to 100% of the target group.
A census would get data from 100% of the population (or at least close to 100%).

Sampling would be to get data from some small portion of the population (much less than 100%).

Dan Eason

Uh, wow?

Friendly Face Posts: 473 **5/21/11 9:00 pm**

I would like to see substance of the report; that was a little "light."
_________________
http://areyoureadyfortherapture.blogspot.com/

Rick Mack

Friendly Face Posts: 386 **5/22/11 2:44 pm**

I suppose 24% response is OK.

Although, it doesn't make me jump out of my chair Rolling Eyes

Results, please?! Wink

Larry Wiley

Acts Mod Posts: 5298 **5/23/11 10:01 am**

Doyle once called me a "Seasoned Pastor". I never thought of myself in those terms until I read that statement.

I pastored for 25 years and have been in the pew for 10 years. From my observation I have come to realize a church diminishes due to two very import issues.

1. Many churches fail due to a lack of "Discipleship". They fail to make Disciple out of their parishioners. Once we become disciples we begin to disciple others.

2. "We have never done this before" mentality. Every church I know of that is experiencing great growth has a modern music program. And are doing other things different than we did in the 50's and 60's. Yet many churches in our area continue to sing older songs, and their program has not changed in decades.

There is nothing wrong with older songs, in fact in my O, some of the "older songs" will never grow old.

They refuse to use great tools like, media. They must realize that media is one of the greatest tools that the church has ever used. Everyone report that I have ever read says we remember much more of what we see than what we hear.

A few years ago I served as intern pastor of a small country Freewill Baptist church. Someone said to me, we cannot keep the young people in our church. I simply said; In order to get or keep young people you must do something "different", do some music that they enjoy. My wife and I were among the youngest in that church.

The music they sang was so old I did not even know the songs, and I have been in church all my live and I could not be considered a young man.

Change. people, change. Stop trying to reach this generation with old ideas. This generation is far different than the generation I and some of you
grew up in, lets be willing to do what is necessary to reach them.

Don't shut out those who love older music. Get some Gather video's, invite them to a special time of worship like a Tuesday or Thursday am. Let them enjoy some fun time like worshiping together eating and fellowship together. Encourage them to invite friends who may or may not got to church. Hey you may win more of them.
_________________
Larry Wiley

PastorJackson

Re: Faith News: Executive Council Gets Survey Report

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4750 **5/23/11 1:22 pm**

theElder

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1926 **5/23/11 2:55 pm**

Pasator Jackson asked, Why would something this important to the GO be voluntary to fill out?

Come on, Brother, I can just see the whining and complaining about the dictatorial EC running roughshod over the poor downtrodden pastors if they had tried to do that. Besides, how would they have enforced such a mandate?

My question is why didn't all those supposedly hundreds or at least dozens of disgruntled, dissatisfied pastors fill out the survey and send it in? If there was any identifying info on it, which I seriously doubt, it could have been whited-out, photocopied and for even better security mailed from another town.

So, why wasn't there more negative surveys mailed in? Is it because people would rather complain instead of trying to accomplish something positive?

I think it was a very good thing for them to send out such a mailing. I'm sure they were more than a little nervous waiting for the responses considering all that is written on here and other boards about the AB's, the EC and all the other leadership of the church.

There should have been surveys returned that brought out areas where folks aren't happy along with suggestions for improvement. That would have been productive in the long run.

BTW, anyone who knows anything about doing surveys such as this knows that a 25% return is a remarkable numer to attain!

rickfowler

loyalty of course

Friendly Face Posts: 148 **5/24/11 3:47 pm**

I never felt like the current level of loyalty with the pastors in the COG have been and issue. When the average age of a minister is somewhere around 57,give or take, loyalty probably isn't a big issue. If one was going to be disloyal they would have been that way years ago. I think many pastors and leaders will express their feelings about the COG just as our church attenders do, with their feet "Now you see me now you don't". This is probably for another thread but where we are today isn't as big an issue to me as is where will we be in the future. Those who remain will be loyal of that I am convinced.

Ed Brewer

Survey/Census

Friendly Face Posts: 312 **5/24/11 3:56 pm**

I've been looking for a place to respond to this, and I should have assumed this would be it.

First -- with all due respect, to presume the loyalty and allegiance of an entire body based on an unscientific sampling is patently in error - any statistician worth his salt will tell you that a random sampling, properly done, is FAR more accurate than the collection of a so-called census (improper term) of this type - the only control in this type of survey is the motivation of the respondents in question, and the proper assumption in this context is that many more supporters than apathetic detractors will participate, with the results skewed accordingly

Second -- the fawning accolades of an organization paid to evaluate and report back to the very people who commissioned the survey in the first place leaves the credibility of the process open to legitimate question

Third -- in my humble opinion, this exercise betrays the problem we are attempting to address - lack of trust. It's not that the people don't love, respect, and pray for the leadership of the General Church, or that they doubt their motives - the problem is that the preconceptions of the rank and file remain as firmly entrenched as ever. The type of glad-handing represented by a survey to validate (at great expense, btw) the legitimacy of the system and leadership smacks more of insecurity than visionary inclusion. IMHO, the membership of the Church of God cares about one thing above anything - leading the lost to Christ - and anything that drains funds away from that effort (including bloated leadership structures and pointless self-promotion) is an affront to their pure hearts.

Finally -- once again, with all due respect, I wonder how many World Missions leaders's budgets could have been preserved with the amount of money spent on this 'chestnut' -- our denomination is in trouble not because of it's management protocols or administrative arrangements - we are in trouble because we have had our vision hijacked by carnal concerns and worries - since when is the Church of the Living God in the business of defunding ministry because the World's economy takes a dip? We have taken the Macedonian call (giving in spite of our need) and usurped it with the Ephesian - we are PRESERVING the mechanics of ministry with eviscerating efficiency while crippling the purpose of our very existence by withdrawing from the front lines. In every battle, there are occasions when it's necessary to 'circle the wagons' for a time, but it must never be confused for genuine leadership when the efforts turn to improving the efficiency of the circle - true leadership will lead onward to the reason the wagons are there in the first place. Let us resume our journey forward, restore our focus on ministry over method, and reclaim our calling as New Testament Pentecostals with an end time hope to share.
_________________
....from Barney Creek to Bountyland through every open door

theElder

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1926 **5/24/11 4:43 pm**

Boy Bro Ed, I'm wondering just how you would have come across if you hadn't written this "with all dues respect" and "from your humble opinion"?

Ever heard of the phrase, D--ned if you do and d--ned if you don't?

That seems to be the position of the leadership of the CoG. Whatever they do there will always be detractors who 'know better." There will always be those who know what we should do in certain situation even when they don't even know all the facts of the situation.

If some of you guys know so much and re blessed with all this wisdom, it looks to me like you should be working to get elected to one of these boards and committees so we could all benefit from your profound, although humble and respectful, opinions.

That's just my 'humble' opinion!

Ed Brewer

clarification - to the Elder

Friendly Face Posts: 312 **5/24/11 5:21 pm**

Just a quick note of explanation. I genuinely meant the terms 'with all due respect' and 'in my humble opinion'. I have served this denomination as a Senior Pastor for 20 years, and am a long term pastor (11 years at my current church). The men in leadership of our church are some of my heroes, and I genuinely honor their work and service. That being said, I am not devoid of experience or without opinions, and this forum was created for sharing just those thoughts. I have in no way impugned the integrity of the men in leadership - I only brought their use of this method of evaluation into question, and assert my OPINION that their use of this method brings a much larger problem into specific relief. Please don't misconstrue my constructive criticism as disloyal - on the contrary, it is an expression of loyalty to question those in leadership and demand accountability. While I may be only a Pastor, I have a perspective that deserves to be aired, even if only in this unofficial forum. A lot of what goes on in Cleveland is totally removed from the reality of the Church of God rank and file, but some things are not - such as the fact that our World Missions department is being gutted in the name of economic reality and done so without specific approval or even knowledge of most of the local church. I personally have relationships with missionary leaders that have had their budgets summarily slashed or discontinued altogether, and I know of many examples where we are abandoning our commitments to the great commission while we focus on fixing our own wagon - THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT! I don't think it's a stretch at all to assert that opinion, or even to surmise that to be the position of the vast majority of our people (and I don't even need to pay someone to tell me that). If my comments seem to be too critical, please find a place in your heart to dismiss my supposed tone and hear what I'm saying - we are hurting real people in real ministries in the quiet recesses of the nether-reaches of our corporate missions effort - men and women sent by us and now abandoned to their own devices - and their voices will never be heard if some of us don't take notice.
_________________
....from Barney Creek to Bountyland through every open door

Cojak

Re: Survey/Census

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24282 **5/24/11 10:17 pm**

Nick Park

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1021 **5/25/11 5:45 am**

The OP, and particularly the thread title, are very misleading.

The Faith News Report says that it was the Baptists at Lifeway who were excited, not the Executive Council.

Also, a huge chunk of text has been edited out by Mighty Army. This editing makes it sound as if the Council Meeting was 'like no other' because of the survey. In fact, if you read the full Faith News Report, it is obvious that the meeting was 'like no other' because we had to hide in the basement when the tornados hit.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland

http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/

Mighty Army

Corrected

Friendly Face Posts: 326 **5/25/11 6:11 am**

OP contains full text of article.

bonnie knox

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **5/25/11 9:20 am**

archie

Tom Sterbens

Acts-celerater Posts: 691 **5/25/11 11:10 am**

Tom please summerize your take of Bullards findings.
_________________
Fresh Start , Fresh Ideas, Fresh Leadership

Nick Park

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1021 **5/25/11 11:35 am**

Bro Bob

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3945 **5/26/11 6:30 pm**

One man's idea of loyalty doesn't always confer itself to the next.

I am glad to hear Bro Park shed a little more light on the actual reception of the information by leadership.

There is a man in Baxley, Georgia who was loyal to the Church of God beyond belief.

He got no survey.

......................

I believe the survey is accurate. I believe there are many ministers who remain in the Church (loyalty), and remain silent about things they have been on the receiving end of (PROOF of loyalty), or have witnessed, (more proof) that would have driven less committed men out long ago. I think in this survey about 75% of them chose silence over complaining or lying. It is how they remain loyal.

I believe there are many laymen who are kept in the dark about the functions of the State and General programs, and even the operations of their own local church (and prefer it that way) because they are loyal to the doctrines and past practices of this faith. Where the Church of God is concerned, their loyalty is similar to the patriotism of a small minority of living politicians. Like them, they hope to see the day the pendulum begins to swing back.

It was a good survey. But we have to weigh it's information with what we already know. For instance, there is no way for the layman who paid for it to find out how much it cost. Nor will anyone poll him for his opinion.

Now THAT is what I call loyalty.