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Would you let some who drinks join your church?
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Post krista
steel wrote:
So in other words you will get on here and use your arrogant religious and spew venom out of your mouth and can't even answer one simple question. Comparing apples to oranges? When doctors tell a person to drink wine or beer for health reasons and people take Nyquil for health reasons it's not the same thing? When there is more alcohol in Nyquil than in some alcoholic drinks its not the same thing? You have accused me of using the same argument sinners use then I guess it is a good thing I have asked that because you need have an answer for them because I will tell you this. If you answer them like you answer a lot of people on here you will have people asking you, "And your suppose to be a Christian?"

How are you suppose to know about the pilgrims? Are you sure you went to school? It is history.

I have never come on here and advocated drinking alcohol. All I have done is come on this thread and asked three simple questions. Each question was asked to individuals that either agreed with alcohol or didn't. All you have to do is pick which question pertains to you and answer it. But all you have done on here is attacked individuals that did not agree with you. You do not give an answer but all you do is attack.

You want to talk about irresponsible. It is irresponsible on your part to talk about God's love then attack people that don't agree with you. It is irresponsible on your part to have such a self righteous attitude and then call other people out for not letting their light shine.


We will never agree as long as you see no difference in Nyquil and drinking alcohol. Check out your local news and you will see the difference. I doubt under the influence of Nyquil any accidents happened or family abuses will happen or any of the destructive consequences will occur. But check out just one days worth of newspaper ariticles that deal with alcohol related tragedies. I really don't mean to be rude, but I have a low tolerance to the "Blind guides" on here.
This is it for me...over and out. Have a nice night steel. Laughing Laughing
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2/28/11 9:49 pm


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krista wrote:

We will never agree as long as you see no difference in Nyquil and drinking alcohol.



The difference between Nyquil and alcohol is that Nyquil has a sizeable percentage of alcohol, plus a lot of other drugs that have effects on the body, and some filler material.

Quote:
Check out your local news and you will see the difference. I doubt under the influence of Nyquil any accidents happened or family abuses will happen or any of the destructive consequences will occur.


I wonder why it has all those warnings on the label.

A kid I knew in high school drank too much Nyquil one time. Some teens will take this stuff. Robotussin was a favorite among druggies, i hear, when i was a kid. One of the varieties they had many years ago had alcohol and some drugs that would cause them to trip if they drank too much.

If it is a sin to drink any alcohol, Nyquil contains alcohol, and that would make it a sin to take Nyquil.

Quote:
I really don't mean to be rude, but I have a low tolerance to the "Blind guides" on here.
This is it for me...over and out. Have a nice night steel. Laughing Laughing


You have been very rude on this thread. You attacked steel for no reason, insulted his intelligence, and didn't even apologize when it was pointed out that you misinterpreted his message.
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2/28/11 10:05 pm


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Post krista
Link wrote:
krista wrote:

We will never agree as long as you see no difference in Nyquil and drinking alcohol.



The difference between Nyquil and alcohol is that Nyquil has a sizeable percentage of alcohol, plus a lot of other drugs that have effects on the body, and some filler material.

Quote:
Check out your local news and you will see the difference. I doubt under the influence of Nyquil any accidents happened or family abuses will happen or any of the destructive consequences will occur.


I wonder why it has all those warnings on the label.

A kid I knew in high school drank too much Nyquil one time. Some teens will take this stuff. Robotussin was a favorite among druggies, i hear, when i was a kid. One of the varieties they had many years ago had alcohol and some drugs that would cause them to trip if they drank too much.

If it is a sin to drink any alcohol, Nyquil contains alcohol, and that would make it a sin to take Nyquil.

Quote:
I really don't mean to be rude, but I have a low tolerance to the "Blind guides" on here.
This is it for me...over and out. Have a nice night steel. Laughing Laughing


You have been very rude on this thread. You attacked steel for no reason, insulted his intelligence, and didn't even apologize when it was pointed out that you misinterpreted his message.


I sincerely apoligize.
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2/28/11 10:23 pm


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Post re: nyquil Pedro
Are the ones sleeping in church on sunday morning using nyquil? Or is that the ones that sleep in and don't come to church. This is the one of silliest threads.
Everyone comes with baggage, both in the church and outside the church. We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord. One here goes to the bar frequently and drinks while telling others about Jesus. It is hard for me to reconcile the two. You would figure that common sense would kick in. There are men addicted to porn and don't think they are addicted.

We must not forget that real ministry is messy. It involves messed up people that need a Savior and that there is hope and deliverance for all who call upon Him.
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3/1/11 9:24 am


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Post Re: re: nyquil Link
Pedro wrote:
One here goes to the bar frequently and drinks while telling others about Jesus. It is hard for me to reconcile the two. You would figure that common sense would kick in. There are men addicted to porn and don't think they are addicted.


It depends on how much he drinks.

Drinking with sinners and telling them about the Gospel-- that sounds like something Jesus did, but not to excess.
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3/1/11 3:00 pm


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Post bradfreeman
The only qualification for joining a church should be that you are a Christian. Anything more is tantamount to saying "Yeah, you might get into Heaven, but we have standards around here!" Divisions, schisms, separation and splits are not what Jesus prayed for. We need to learn how to walk together with those with whom we disagree.
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3/1/11 9:57 pm


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Post Cojak
bradfreeman wrote:
The only qualification for joining a church should be that you are a Christian. Anything more is tantamount to saying "Yeah, you might get into Heaven, but we have standards around here!" Divisions, schisms, separation and splits are not what Jesus prayed for. We need to learn how to walk together with those with whom we disagree.


I like the way that is stated. It would be hard for me to disagree with it.
BUT we humans just need more to get our teeth in.
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3/2/11 11:49 am


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Where does the Bible say to have membership rolls anyway? If a fellow-believer meets and gathers with the saints but does not sign a form to join or agree to a list of extra-Biblical rules, shouldn't we treat him the same.

If he goes to church, and is not allowed to partake of communion, doesn't the church or whoever forbids him risk God's judgment for creating division in the body and excluding him from fellowshipping through the Lord's Supper.

If he lives in sin, and goes to church, won't the church face judgment from God if it refuses to discipline him because he is not on the membership roll? Can't the leaven of sin spread to others in the body, and can't the root of bitterness defile many, even if he is not on the membership roll?

And as a member of the body of Christ who attends, shouldn't he have as much 'say' as someone who is on the membership roll? Shouldn't Christ be allowed to speak through him on church matters as He could speak through any other believer?
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3/2/11 1:43 pm


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Post steel
steel wrote:
So let me get this straight for those that would take in members that drink alcohol, where do you draw the line?

For those that wouldn't take them in if they drink alcohol, then does that mean that if they take Nyquil or many of the cough and cold medicines out there you wouldn't take them in either? And before someone says that is not the same alcohol, Yes it is. In fact Nyquil has more alcohol in it than some alcoholic drinks.

For those that consider it a sin and they would go to hell. Would you take in gossipers, liers, people who are having abortions, rapists, murderers, people who commit gluttony, those who sow discord?


I just wanted to repost this. Some have already given their input. I am looking for serious answers to these questions. These questions are not attack questions.
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3/4/11 4:08 pm


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Post Kyle Morrow
Sometimes we act like we are just plain dumb. I may be too simplistic, but if you can't tell the difference between beer, wine, liquor, whiskey, and nyquil or caffeine, then you really don't have any business pastoring or serving in any leadership capacity in a church.

When you child is sick, you give them robitussin, but when they had a rough day at Kindergarten, do you give them a shot of Jack Daniels? For Easter we'll give our children chocolate inside of our little plastic eggs, but I don't plan on giving them a cold bud light.

Caffeine is habit forming, so is getting on Actscelerate, so is brushing your teeth, so is reading you Bible. I am going to go out on a limb and say that by mood altering, habit forming substances, refer to nicotine, drugs, and alcohol. If you want to, you can probably find a loophole to justify anything, it comes down to the heart.
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3/4/11 9:50 pm


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Post p5harri
Lord Chancellor wrote:
Kyle Morrow wrote:
Sometimes we act like we are just plain dumb. I may be too simplistic, but if you can't tell the difference between beer, wine, liquor, whiskey, and nyquil or caffeine, then you really don't have any business pastoring or serving in any leadership capacity in a church.

When you child is sick, you give them robitussin, but when they had a rough day at Kindergarten, do you give them a shot of Jack Daniels? For Easter we'll give our children chocolate inside of our little plastic eggs, but I don't plan on giving them a cold bud light.

Caffeine is habit forming, so is getting on Actscelerate, so is brushing your teeth, so is reading you Bible. I am going to go out on a limb and say that by mood altering, habit forming substances, refer to nicotine, drugs, and alcohol. If you want to, you can probably find a loophole to justify anything, it comes down to the heart.


Doesn't matter.

The Practical Commitments prohibit it.

It really doesn't matter how you spin it or justify it.

But, you are right on one thing. Some people just act like they are plain dumb (though, I don't think it's really an act). Those are the ones who try to tell us that when the Practical Commitments tell us that we're to abstain from all habit-forming, mood-altering, addictive chemical substances that it doesn't really mean that we're to abstain from all habit-forming, mood-altering, addictive chemical substances. (oh, and I'm going to let you in on a little secret- Shhh! Don't tell anybody else- Actscelerate is not a chemical substance. Again...shhh...).

I know- completely stupid, just like you said. They don't have any business serving as pastor or in leadership, just as you said, because if they don't have the mental capacity to know understand something as simple as the PC's, then they certainly don't have the mental capacity to lead others in truth.


Just curious, does anyone know the heart of what the church was trying to say when they wrote the PC's.
Where they specifically opposed to everything habit-forming, etc.?
Was it really a black and white issue with the church when they proposed the Practical Commitments?
I don't know and I'm curious if anyone else knows.

Thanks
Patrick
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3/4/11 10:47 pm


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Post steel
Kyle Morrow wrote:
Sometimes we act like we are just plain dumb. I may be too simplistic, but if you can't tell the difference between beer, wine, liquor, whiskey, and nyquil or caffeine, then you really don't have any business pastoring or serving in any leadership capacity in a church.

When you child is sick, you give them robitussin, but when they had a rough day at Kindergarten, do you give them a shot of Jack Daniels? For Easter we'll give our children chocolate inside of our little plastic eggs, but I don't plan on giving them a cold bud light.

Caffeine is habit forming, so is getting on Actscelerate, so is brushing your teeth, so is reading you Bible. I am going to go out on a limb and say that by mood altering, habit forming substances, refer to nicotine, drugs, and alcohol. If you want to, you can probably find a loophole to justify anything, it comes down to the heart.


Kyle alcohol is alcohol, doesn't matter how you spin it. I truly hope you wasn't trying to be a smartalec but from your post it seems that way. As one poster put it there are alcoholics that will drink nyquil and other cough medicines for the alcohol.
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3/4/11 11:55 pm


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Post Kyle Morrow
The point I am making is there is a difference between drinking alcoholic beverages and taking Nyquil as medicine, just like there is a difference between having a morphine drip after surgery and popping pain pills for a high. As I said earlier, it is a matter of the heart.

I know you guys have to be smart enough to know the difference!
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3/5/11 12:09 am


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Post steel
So when a doctor tells you that you need to drink a glass of wine everyday, or even a beer then it is okay? It is for medicinal purposes. Golf Cart Mafia Associate
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3/5/11 7:09 am


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Post Carolyn Smith
This argument is so old. *sigh*
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3/5/11 10:14 am


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Post steel
When I posted my questions I was not looking for any arguments just some info from every side. But it's like Eddie said, you can't have a good discussion without people having an in your face attitude. Very few have even addressed my questions. But several have attacked. That's sad. Golf Cart Mafia Associate
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3/5/11 10:27 am


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Post helping hand
I have lots of friends and family on both sides of the fence on this one. I think that there is nothing preventing your friends from attending the COG of their choice as long as they desire and continue to drink casually. I am not trying to be curt but honest.
They cannot hold an office if they cannot abide by the rules. They shouldn't try to slide by joining, if they won't comply. If it's not a big enough deal to them that they not drink to join the COG; then they shouldn't mind just attending as non-members.
Let me ask you a question. How do you personally feel about drinking a glass of wine or a beer on occasion or with dinner? I think you already know the answers and this more about your own loyalty to the COG and your changing values.
This is exactly why there are so many leavng the COG. The disintegration of the values we came to believe as truth growing up in the COG. Now we find they are"Debatable?!?"
Somethings are best left at the foot of the Cross.
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3/5/11 12:47 pm


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Post Curtis Lowe II
helping hand wrote:
I have lots of friends and family on both sides of the fence on this one. I think that there is nothing preventing your friends from attending the COG of their choice as long as they desire and continue to drink casually. I am not trying to be curt but honest.
They cannot hold an office if they cannot abide by the rules. They shouldn't try to slide by joining, if they won't comply. If it's not a big enough deal to them that they not drink to join the COG; then they shouldn't mind just attending as non-members.
Let me ask you a question. How do you personally feel about drinking a glass of wine or a beer on occasion or with dinner? I think you already know the answers and this more about your own loyalty to the COG and your changing values.
This is exactly why there are so many leavng the COG. The disintegration of the values we came to believe as truth growing up in the COG. Now we find they are"Debatable?!?" Somethings are best left at the foot of the Cross.


I didn't grow up COG. I am not really interested in what some "came to believe as truth." I want to know what the truth is according to scripture. I happen to believe it is ok to "debate" things and let scripture be the final judge. If the Bible does not forbid something to be part of the body of Christ is it right for us to forbid someone from joining a local church? I am not advocating drinking but I do want to be faithful to the word of God. I would also venture to say that more people have left the COG because of being hurt by legalism than by disntergration of values.
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3/5/11 1:30 pm


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Post helping hand
Well, you can't ask what's right in the word of God questions and then try to apply them to COG rules. They may or may not line up to your satisfaction. I am sorry, my irritated friend, but a rule is a rule. It is a question of where your loyalties lie. Do they lie First with the COG.
I personally don't have a problem with anyone having a drink of wine or beer. For most people, a drink isn't a problem.
If you are asking about an imaginary church...my answer is let them join by all means!! But if you are asking about the COG...It's no for reasons I've already given.
FYI I don't belong to the COG anymore but I still have many friends that do and I feel free to attend anytime I desire and our core beliefs are the same. Bless you Brother. Keep on keeping on.
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3/5/11 2:34 pm


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Post Kyle Morrow
steel wrote:
When I posted my questions I was not looking for any arguments just some info from every side. But it's like Eddie said, you can't have a good discussion without people having an in your face attitude. Very few have even addressed my questions. But several have attacked. That's sad.


I apologize for hijacking the thread. I didn't mean to attack. I didn't even want to get involved with this subject, because it is in fact quite old. But LC brought in something I said in a previous thread, so I came in to defend my previous statements.
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3/5/11 3:56 pm


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