Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
r/Actscelerate

Would you let some who drinks join your church?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Hot Discussions Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Cojak
Yeah this is an old debate. but hey Kyle the guy in the Avitar looks like he is saying knock the block off my shoulder, I dare you!

I sorta feel like if one doesn't know that alcohol is alcohol no matter what form it is in, has a slight problem.

Many folk kept a little white liquor for 'medicinal purposes', because a visit to the doctor or medicines were expensive for the poor folk. Even today I would guess Jack or Jim is less expensive to have around and is more natural than nyquil.

And I am shocked you are not going to give the kids in kindergarden a light Bud, the rest of the preachers on here are! Do you really think that?


But to the post:
I have already answered once, I would not approve of them joining personally, but I cannot give a real good reason. Because it is a rule is not a great reason since so many rules are already broken.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24269
3/5/11 4:12 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Russell Roberts
A "decision" by a pastor to "allow someone to join a church" has zero bearing of whether that person is a member or not. If they are "in Christ" (as Paul would put it) they are ontologically members of the Church - drinkers and non-drinkers alike. The church is comprised of all of those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells. What IS sinful is to reject someone whom Christ has justified - THAT'S what's sinful. To his own master each individual stands or falls. A careful reading of Romans 14 is in order here. Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2919
3/6/11 1:54 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Cojak
Russell Roberts wrote:
A "decision" by a pastor to "allow someone to join a church" has zero bearing of whether that person is a member or not. If they are "in Christ" (as Paul would put it) they are ontologically members of the Church - drinkers and non-drinkers alike. The church is comprised of all of those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells. What IS sinful is to reject someone whom Christ has justified - THAT'S what's sinful. To his own master each individual stands or falls. A careful reading of Romans 14 is in order here.


methinks even Russell can have a good point everyonce in awhile. LOL

Love ya Bro!!!
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24269
3/6/11 3:26 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Interesting experience last week Randy Johnson
At my work we have a young lady who is very open about her faith, but not obnoxious about it. She goes to one of the larger churches in town. Last week we have a departmental meeting offsite and ate dinner together with members of our team from out-of-state.

At dinner Thursday evening I was sitting across from this young lady and a co-worker from the out of state team was at my left. They were openly discussing at the table how important it was to do what Jesus wanted them to do with their lives instead of just what seemed important to them by worldly standards. (There were others at the table who were either not saved or not vocal about their faith).

All the time these two women were talking, one of them was drinking white wine and the other was drinking some fancy drink that looked like an ice cream float. I wasn't in their conversation, but I really felt weird sitting there listening to them and watching them drink alcohol at the same time. It perplexed me, but it wasn't a stumbling block to me, BECAUSE I wasn't tempted to drink alcohol just because they were doing it! And that is what the definition of being a stumbling block means: to tempt someone to violate their own conscience by your actions.

I couldn't understand how anyone who had studied Scripture in-depth could be comfortable with consuming alcohol, but I also couldn't condemn them. They weren't drunk, they weren't behaving in an unseemly manner or using obscene or corrupt speech. Instead, they were talking about their families and about the Lord.
_________________
Randy Johnson, Pastor
Ickesburg Church of God
85 Tuscarora Path
Ickesburg, Pennsylvania
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5433
3/6/11 3:36 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post LC Cojak
Not that I am surprised, but I really like that comment. Basically word for word how I feel.

I am no longer a 'student' of the Word. I love the Word but I have my favorite books, so those I truly enjoy, just for me and my spirit.

I remember as a young preacher, when I heard things expressed as you have above, I said in my heart, LEARNED BETTER? HA, HE HAS JUST BACK SLID.

I think I have said this before, I am surprised looking back how reall ignorant I was.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24269
3/6/11 5:16 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post krista
Kyle Morrow wrote:
The point I am making is there is a difference between drinking alcoholic beverages and taking Nyquil as medicine, just like there is a difference between having a morphine drip after surgery and popping pain pills for a high. As I said earlier, it is a matter of the heart.

I know you guys have to be smart enough to know the difference!


No use Kyle. This is the new guard. But take heart, they're just a small minority.Laughing Laughing
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2960
3/6/11 5:37 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post steel
LC you have hit it right on the head. I use to be the same way. Not everything that we have been taught is incorrect but some things are. What is sad is that some of these that condemn certain things just because we we're taught have no problem gossiping or cheating or lying, etc. It's sad really when you think about it. People get focused on certain things and yet do not focus on things that are more important. Seems like Jesus mentioned something about that in the Bible. Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2176
3/6/11 7:55 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Randy Johnson
One of the things I learned as an adult after studying the Bible for myself was that there is much greater freedom as a servant of Jesus Christ than there are restrictions. I think the reason for much of the so-called "holiness rules" of the past was fear and the desire to control other people's lives.

Some people just can't stand the idea of someone else having and enjoying a freedom that they themselves do not have or cannot enjoy without personal conviction. So rather than admitting their own problem with weak faith and a weak conscience they strike out and attack others with layers of rules upon rules, just like the Pharisees and teachers of the Law that Jesus rebuked.
_________________
Randy Johnson, Pastor
Ickesburg Church of God
85 Tuscarora Path
Ickesburg, Pennsylvania
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5433
3/6/11 10:00 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post steel
Randy Johnson wrote:
One of the things I learned as an adult after studying the Bible for myself was that there is much greater freedom as a servant of Jesus Christ than there are restrictions. I think the reason for much of the so-called "holiness rules" of the past was fear and the desire to control other people's lives.

Some people just can't stand the idea of someone else having and enjoying a freedom that they themselves do not have or cannot enjoy without personal conviction. So rather than admitting their own problem with weak faith and a weak conscience they strike out and attack others with layers of rules upon rules, just like the Pharisees and teachers of the Law that Jesus rebuked.


I agree with what you are saying. I heard a pastor one time say from behind the pulpit that if you listen to anything besides Christian music you are going to hell. He also stated that if he finds out that anyone in leadership listens to anything but Christian music they will not serve in that leadership position anymore.
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2176
3/7/11 12:00 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post PastorJackson
If they ever tested the Pastors in the COG wow, I know many who are all kinds of zolof ect. So yes in a heartbeat I would let them, sanctification is a ongoing process, As far as I can see the only place in the bible where drinking is forbidden is for ministers, not the body it says to drink a little wine that is NOT a prohibition against it. When I was a kid the big thing was devil music. I kept listening because I was not convicted by God, untill one day I heard the words to a song, I loved this song and I had heard it thousands of times but one day GOD opened my ears and I heard the words. I stopped listening at that moment, One day GOD will show them about drinking and they will stop.
_________________
Are the things you are living for, worth Christ dying for?
http://www.jacksonplant.org/
http://jacksonplant.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/jackson.plant
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4750
3/7/11 12:34 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post krista
steel wrote:
LC you have hit it right on the head. I use to be the same way. Not everything that we have been taught is incorrect but some things are. What is sad is that some of these that condemn certain things just because we we're taught have no problem gossiping or cheating or lying, etc. It's sad really when you think about it. People get focused on certain things and yet do not focus on things that are more important. Seems like Jesus mentioned something about that in the Bible.


An illogical / apples to oranges argument. The things you mentioned are wrong, but doing one does not negate the other. If you want to drink, you don't condone it by telling us how wrong other things are so this is no worse.....kids do that. "Well, everyone else is doing it". That's just not legitimate/ logical reasoning. My teenagers did that. Sinners do that. I guess some Pastors now do it! Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2960
3/8/11 9:09 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post macgulley
krista wrote:
steel wrote:
LC you have hit it right on the head. I use to be the same way. Not everything that we have been taught is incorrect but some things are. What is sad is that some of these that condemn certain things just because we we're taught have no problem gossiping or cheating or lying, etc. It's sad really when you think about it. People get focused on certain things and yet do not focus on things that are more important. Seems like Jesus mentioned something about that in the Bible.


An illogical / apples to oranges argument. The things you mentioned are wrong, but doing one does not negate the other. If you want to drink, you don't condone it by telling us how wrong other things are so this is no worse.....kids do that. "Well, everyone else is doing it". That's just not legitimate/ logical reasoning. My teenagers did that. Sinners do that. I guess some Pastors now do it! Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed


Which brings us back to the root of the question: if the Bible does not condemn something, who has the authority to say it's wrong?
_________________
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still"
anonymous
Acts-celerater
Posts: 633
3/8/11 10:08 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post steel
krista wrote:
steel wrote:
LC you have hit it right on the head. I use to be the same way. Not everything that we have been taught is incorrect but some things are. What is sad is that some of these that condemn certain things just because we we're taught have no problem gossiping or cheating or lying, etc. It's sad really when you think about it. People get focused on certain things and yet do not focus on things that are more important. Seems like Jesus mentioned something about that in the Bible.


An illogical / apples to oranges argument. The things you mentioned are wrong, but doing one does not negate the other. If you want to drink, you don't condone it by telling us how wrong other things are so this is no worse.....kids do that. "Well, everyone else is doing it". That's just not legitimate/ logical reasoning. My teenagers did that. Sinners do that. I guess some Pastors now do it! Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed


Krista, I think you missed my point. The point I am trying to get at is that there are people out there that condemn things but then they go out and do something just as bad if not worse. Your right it is not a legitimate reason so go till all the gossipers and liers that if they are going to condemn one thing then they need to condemn the things they do.

BTW, I haven't condoned anything.
Golf Cart Mafia Associate
Posts: 2176
3/8/11 10:47 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post bradfreeman
Mark 7:14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' " 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!

My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
3/8/11 2:58 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: Would you let some who drinks join your church? MARK317
Curtis Lowe II wrote:
I have couple who started coming to church about six moths ago. It took me years to build a relationship with this couple. They have come to the altar numerous times, they will tell you straight up that they have accepted Jesus as their savior.

They have read the church of God book outlining the beliefs of the COG. They love our church and have asked about joining. They also do not hide the fact that they have a few beers on the weekends. Do you let them join or not?

I know what I think but I am interested to see what others may say


I would let them join in and come and be a part of the Church. But I would not let them join as in becoming members. I would treat them with repect and be a Pastor to them the best I could, but they could not be a member until the consuming of alcohol has ended. They would recieve care and attention, but they could not join as members, or hold a position. Our minutes clearly state that it's members abstain from alcohol.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 544
3/8/11 3:00 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Kyle Morrow
bradfreeman wrote:
Mark 7:14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' " 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")


Okay, then go eat some poison berries or raw chicken.
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
3/8/11 3:06 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post krista
bradfreeman wrote:
Mark 7:14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' " 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")


And this is where rightly dividing would come in to play. Of course there are things a man can not consume. Jesus was talking about rituals either making a man right or not right with God. But to say that man can't consume anything that would destroy and hurt, is not accurate. If that is true than marijuana and cocaine and the like is ok to partake of. And we all know that is not true and that was NOT what Jesus was teaching.


Last edited by krista on 3/8/11 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2960
3/8/11 3:07 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post bradfreeman
Kyle Morrow wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Mark 7:14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' " 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")


Okay, then go eat some poison berries or raw chicken.


Laughing This is your response to Jesus words? I wonder if anyone in the crowd that day said that too. So if you eat poison berries or raw chicken you aren't allowed to join the church?
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!

My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
3/8/11 3:08 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Kyle Morrow
My response was to you, not Jesus. You clearly took that Scripture out of context. Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
3/8/11 3:12 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: Would you let some who drinks join your church? MARK317
Lord Chancellor wrote:
MARK317 wrote:
Curtis Lowe II wrote:
I have couple who started coming to church about six moths ago. It took me years to build a relationship with this couple. They have come to the altar numerous times, they will tell you straight up that they have accepted Jesus as their savior.

They have read the church of God book outlining the beliefs of the COG. They love our church and have asked about joining. They also do not hide the fact that they have a few beers on the weekends. Do you let them join or not?

I know what I think but I am interested to see what others may say


I would let them join in and come and be a part of the Church. But I would not let them join as in becoming members. I would treat them with repect and be a Pastor to them the best I could, but they could not be a member until the consuming of alcohol has ended. They would recieve care and attention, but they could not join as members, or hold a position. Our minutes clearly state that it's members abstain from alcohol.


What about those who wish to become members (or who are members) who do not abstain from coffee and other products which contain caffeine (a habit-forming, mood-altering, addictive chemical substance that the Minutes- in the very same paragraph- just as clearly says we are to abstain from)?

Are they allowed to become members, and if so, why and why them and not those who moderately consume alcohol?


This is where common sence and policy clash. While caffine is addictive, it is not responcible for untold millions of personal and national tragedies. We can split hairs here, but common sence must prevail. I think our founding fathers understood it's evil over a cup of coffee in the morning. I doubt they even understood it ( coffee ) was addictive and had other things in mind. Otherwise they would have specifically named those things. I guess they never dreamed this debate would go on among it's Pastors.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 544
3/8/11 3:17 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Hot Discussions Post new topic   Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 6 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.