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To poster "Isa 58:12": Regarding Galatians
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Post Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Square Peg Round Hole wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink


what is Galatains? must be some new jewish incarnation of the word.


Its always been Jewish, not a pentecostal, baptist, lutheran, methodist, morman, jehovahs witness, cog thing about it Wink How can you be something your Leader wasn't? Messiah Y'shua was a Jew Very Happy


Jesus' body was Jewish, His spirit was/is eternal, and non-racial.


Are you saying that Y'shua's Spirit is something other than He was? & did you read what I put up about Gal 5:1-7 p randy?


God doesn't have a "Jewish Spirit" or an "American Spirit" or a "Hungarian Spirit", all of those terms and relationships are meaningless in regards to God. They only exist in the physical realm of flesh and blood genetics. The Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing.
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11/2/10 1:57 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Square Peg Round Hole wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink


what is Galatains? must be some new jewish incarnation of the word.


Its always been Jewish, not a pentecostal, baptist, lutheran, methodist, morman, jehovahs witness, cog thing about it Wink How can you be something your Leader wasn't? Messiah Y'shua was a Jew Very Happy


Jesus' body was Jewish, His spirit was/is eternal, and non-racial.


Are you saying that Y'shua's Spirit is something other than He was? & did you read what I put up about Gal 5:1-7 p randy?


God doesn't have a "Jewish Spirit" or an "American Spirit" or a "Hungarian Spirit", all of those terms and relationships are meaningless in regards to God. They only exist in the physical realm of flesh and blood genetics. The Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing.


Jew in Hebrew means G-d Worshiper or G-d Praiser. not American, Hungarian, etc, & yes those are meaningless...

What did you think about the last post on Galatians?
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Post Randy Johnson
I had to search for it and I read it, but I didn't pick up anything of significance, what should I have seen?
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11/2/10 8:28 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
I had to search for it and I read it, but I didn't pick up anything of significance, what should I have seen?


Another Truth of how Paul is so misunderstood in the Book of Galatians in chapter 5. Because Paul is continually looked at, and taught as a man who disregarded the Torah. & this is just another example of that its just not so Very Happy .

Quote:
Well Praise Adonai, I'm not going to let the enemy win by trying to shut me up, not talking about this important discussion to give Him, our Creator the Glory. I don't care how many people try to irritate me, I'm going to keep posting Truths till Adonai removes me.

& I never said "I promise I won't speak anymore on this thread", so hold the lying card nature boy ...

Gal 5:1-7
5:1: Stand fast therefore “in” the “Liberty” wherewith Messiah has made us “free”, & be not entangled again with the “yoke” of “bondage”.

Ok the greek word for “Liberty” in Gal 5:1 is the same as in 2 Cor 3:17, & it is Eletheria and it means;

A free person, Freedom, generosity, independence. It is Freedom presented as a signal blessing of the economy of Grace, which, in contrast with the O.T. economy is represented as including independence from “religious regulations” and legal restrictions, legalism.

The Liberty we have in Messiah is freedom to walk in the things of Elohim & not be bound down to a man made rendition above Torah. Gal 5:1, the word “free”, Messiah has made us “free” goes back to the allegory in Gal 4:21-31 about the 2 Covenants, he of the “free” woman was by Promise.

Gal 5:1: & be not again entangled with the “yoke” of bondage. Yoke is talked about in Acts 15:10 speaking of the judaizers way for salvation. Which plays back to what Y’shua Himself said in Matt 23:3-4, about “they” tell you what to do, but they themselves don’t do it. For “they” bind heavy burdens & “grievous” to be borne…

Its interesting, the man made, pharisees doctrine, or “hagar” in Gal 4:21-31, how Messiah says in Matt 23:3-4 that “their” way (hagar) are to grievous for people to bare. But in 1 John 5:1-3, says that the Torah Commandments are NOT grievous. Huh, that will preach…

Back to Gal 5:1: & be not again entangled with the “yoke” of “bondage”. Bondage is not keeping Torah, Deut 8:14, Neh 9:16-19, Isa 5:13, but keeping a man made “system” or “elements” (Gal 4:3 = 9), greek word “stoicheion” world system….

Gal 5:2: Behold I Paul say to you, that “if” you be circumcised, (“yoke” for salvation, Gal 2:4, 2:12, 6:12) Messiah shall profit you nothing.

Gal 5:3: For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole Law.

Gal 5:4: Messiah is become of no effect (hagar, circumcision 5:2, yoke 5:1) unto you whosoever of you are “justified” (bypass Y’shua’s Atonement) by the Law; you are fallen from Grace.
Mans laws will never justify us, & just keeping Torah will not justify us either, Gal 5:5: For “we” through the Spirit (Torah, Rom 7:14) wait for the Hope of Righteousness (Y’shua/Goal) by “Faith” (“believes” Rom 10:4).

Gal 5:6: For “in” Messiah Y’shua neither circumcision avails anything, nor un-circumcision: But Faith which works love.

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Post Isa 58:12
Anybody want to to comment on the Book of Gal? On how Paul is speaking of the legalism of the pharisees & not the Torah of Adonai. & since this is the case, should we re-look @ what the Torah is & whats in it for the believer Very Happy ?
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Post Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Anybody want to to comment on the Book of Gal? On how Paul is speaking of the legalism of the pharisees & not the Torah of Adonai. & since this is the case, should we re-look @ what the Torah is & whats in it for the believer Very Happy ?


Your thesis statement is faulty, that is why no one is discussing with you.

We believe Paul was talking about the feasts and such, so there is no agreement between us and you for discussion.
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11/4/10 11:17 am


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Post Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Anybody want to to comment on the Book of Gal? On how Paul is speaking of the legalism of the pharisees & not the Torah of Adonai. & since this is the case, should we re-look @ what the Torah is & whats in it for the believer Very Happy ?


Your thesis statement is faulty, that is why no one is discussing with you.

We believe Paul was talking about the feasts and such, so there is no agreement between us and you for discussion.


Why the empty statements pastor? Please, show me where I am "faulty". Show me how Paul, A Jewish man who kept Torah,would be talking about the Feasts (Appointed) times of Adonai & such.

This is a discussion board right? Lets discuss it Very Happy . But please, if I'm wrong show me in the Scriptures in Gal
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Post Isa 58:12
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Anybody want to to comment on the Book of Gal? On how Paul is speaking of the legalism of the pharisees & not the Torah of Adonai. & since this is the case, should we re-look @ what the Torah is & whats in it for the believer Very Happy ?

Those are the two assumptions I mentioned before:

1- The agitators are not unsaved Pharisees

2 - Paul is not addressing just oral Torah

You want to have dialog within those two parameters you have assumed with little or no evidence.


I just want to have a dialog with anybody Smile What was wrong with the last things I put up? & the "agitators" are unsaved "holy men". 1 example, what did John the Baptist call them in Matt 3:7?

But when he saw many of the pharisees & saducees came to his baptism, he said unto "them" O generation of "vipers" who has warned you (if they were right, why the warning if they are saved?) to flee from the wrath to come.

Then in verse 8 he told them to bring for fruits for "repentance". Repentance for breaking Torah.

& your right, Paul is speaking of Torah...
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Post Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Anybody want to to comment on the Book of Gal? On how Paul is speaking of the legalism of the pharisees & not the Torah of Adonai. & since this is the case, should we re-look @ what the Torah is & whats in it for the believer Very Happy ?


Your thesis statement is faulty, that is why no one is discussing with you.

We believe Paul was talking about the feasts and such, so there is no agreement between us and you for discussion.


Why the empty statements pastor? Please, show me where I am "faulty". Show me how Paul, A Jewish man who kept Torah,would be talking about the Feasts (Appointed) times of Adonai & such.


It is impossible to show you, Isa. I, and others have attempted to do so, but you do not have eyes to see or ears to hear. No matter what Scriptures we show you, which prove your beliefs to be false, you change the meaning of those Scriptures in mid-sentence and claim them to mean something that they do not mean. Therefore, it is impossible to have a conversation with you, it is fruitless, because you change the plain meaning of English to mean something else, so that the hope of arriving at any agreement is futile. Most of us don't have the energy or have tired already of going around and around the same circular trench with you over and over again.

Isa 58:12 wrote:
This is a discussion board right? Lets discuss it Very Happy . But please, if I'm wrong show me in the Scriptures in Gal


How? As an analogy of how you twist Scripture and the English language, if I told you in an argument that apples were red, you would tell me they were another color, and then build an argument on the basis of that inaccurate color and come to a conclusion. That is how you "discuss" Scripture. It never has the same meaning to you that it has to 90+% of the members of this discussion board.

There isn't one man or woman who posts on or reads this discussion board who does not have a tender heart toward God and a desire to please Him in every way we can. We all interested in growing in the knowledge of God and doing what is righteous in His sight. We have listened to you, and pondered your arguments for why you believe we should continue to observe the civil and ceremonial laws of ancient Israel, and quite frankly, the Holy Spirit within us does not bear witness with our spirits that what you are saying is of God.
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11/4/10 6:31 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Quote:
It is impossible to show you, Isa. I, and others have attempted to do so, but you do not have eyes to see or ears to hear. No matter what Scriptures we show you, which prove your beliefs to be false, you change the meaning of those Scriptures in mid-sentence and claim them to mean something that they do not mean.


What have I changed in Galatians? & how have I changed the meaning of "Everlasting?" Are you sayig I don't have "eyes" to see the Word Everlasting in my Bible & I don't have ears to hear it either? huh.....

We have listened to you, and pondered your arguments for why you believe we should continue to observe the civil and ceremonial laws of ancient Israel, and quite frankly, the Holy Spirit within us does not bear witness with our spirits that what you are saying is of God.

My friend, what family are you grafted into that our Creator has given them Commandse to do? & to your last statement I put in bold, is the Holy Spirit going to tell you to do something other than is what is Wriiten? I don't think so Wink ....

But what is wrong with what I have presented in Galatians? Please show my by quoting me, & then your comment with Scrpitures.... Thats all I want my friend
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Post Isaiah Tracy S Hamilton
Do I believe that the Holy Spirit tells us something other than what is written.... ABSOLUTELY..... why? Because Jesus said he would.

John 14, 15 and 16 tells us that. Jesus tells his disciples that the Holy Spirit is coming..... and in John 16 he tells about the work of the Holy Spirit....

in John 16: vs. 7-15 Jesus tells us that he has a lot more to say..... so if Jesus was going away but he has a lot more to say.... how is He going to say it.....? Through the Holy Spirit.

vs. vs. 13..... He (the Holy Spirit) will tell you about the future.

That is undeniable proof that the Holy Spirit will tell us things and other than what is written.

In your statement you said: "is the Holy Spirit going to tell you to "do" something other than what is written?" NO..... but the disagreement comes because you think what is written is all about living by the law and as Randy has said, as Tom has said, as I have said, and others have said, we don't see scriptures the way you do. And as Randy says, the Holy Spirit is NOT bearing witness with our spirits that we have to live according to something that no man before Christ could live or after Christ could live.

Something that I have repeatedly asked you and have NEVER even gotten a hint of an answer is this: Outside of Jesus Christ, tell me one person who was ever able to meet the requirements of the law?

I know the answer: NO ONE!! Why.... because the law was designed so that no one could keep it so that people would see their sinfulness and see their need for a Savior. That, my friend, was the purpose of the law.

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Post Re: Isaiah Randy Johnson
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Something that I have repeatedly asked you and have NEVER even gotten a hint of an answer is this: Outside of Jesus Christ, tell me one person who was ever able to meet the requirements of the law?

I know the answer: NO ONE!! Why.... because the law was designed so that no one could keep it so that people would see their sinfulness and see their need for a Savior. That, my friend, was the purpose of the law.

Tracy


Galatians 3 wrote:
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come,

Three points:

1. The Law was added, indicating that there was a time that it wasn't there! Romans 5 supports this:

Romans 5 wrote:
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.


This Scripture states that there was a time before the Law was given. That is why it had to added, because it wasn't there!

2. The Law was not given for its own sake or because of its own intrinsic value. The Law was only given because of transgressions.

Romans 7 wrote:
12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.


3. The Law was intended to be temporary until Christ arrived to enable us to filled with the Holy Spirit, so that we could all individually and personally be led by God, and not be cookie-cutter Christians participating in religious group-speak.

Romans 7 wrote:
1 Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives?

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


The Law bound all men over to disobedience (both Jew and Gentile) so that God could have mercy on us all.

When Christ died on the cross, we died with Him, and when we died with Christ the authority of the Law over us ended.

We have been released from the Law and now live by the Spirit.

Living by the Spirit does not make us lawless, however. Although we are no longer under the Law of Moses, we are under the Law of Christ, and that Law is greater than Moses and fulfills the spirit of the Law of Moses, not just the letter.

Isa, you are trying to take us back under something that Christ died to release us from. I, for one, refuse to surrender the freedom for which Christ set me free. You may go back under a yoke of bondage if you want to, that is your choice, but the blood of Jesus is too precious to me to allow me attempt to undo its work.
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11/4/10 10:02 pm


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Post No Tracy, thats not the Spirit or the G-d of this Bible. Isa 58:12
Let me explain

Quote:
Do I believe that the Holy Spirit tells us something other than what is written.... ABSOLUTELY..... why? Because Jesus said he would.


The Spirit of our Rabbi, our Savior will never tell you how to live out side of what is already Commanded in the Torah, never.

Quote:
John 14, 15 and 16 tells us that. Jesus tells his disciples that the Holy Spirit is coming..... and in John 16 he tells about the work of the Holy Spirit....

John 16: vs. 7-15 Jesus tells us that he has a lot more to say..... so if Jesus was going away but he has a lot more to say.... how is He going to say it.....? Through the Holy Spirit.

vs. vs. 13..... He (the Holy Spirit) will tell you about the future.


Y'shua tells His "disciples"(imitators of a Torah observant Jew) that the Holy Spirit is coming..... yes. & you brought up John 16 about the "work" of the Holy Spirit, but you left out His job. John 16:8: & when He (Holy Spirit) is come, "He" will reprove (Expose) the world of "sin" & of Righteousness (Torah Dt 6:25) & of Judgment (again, Torah)

John 16:9: Of sin (torahlessness) because they believed Me not... Jn 5:46-47 If you will not believe Moshe (Torah) then you won't believe My Words

16:10: Of Righteousness (Torah).... Which He will cut short "in" Righteousness Rom 9:28.

16:13: Howbeit when the Holy Spirit of "Truth" (Torah) is come, He will guide you into ALL Truth (again, Torah) For He will not speak of Himself (niether did Y'shua, Jn 12:49, 14:24, 31, 15:10) & He will show you things to come.

If we keep Torah He will show us things to come, Deut 29:29, Neh 9:20, Isa 11:2, 48:4-6, 42:9. Very Happy

Quote:
That is undeniable proof that the Holy Spirit will tell us things and other than what is written.


I'm pretty sure that its not in the way you think my friend Wink Because He will NEVER speak our command people to do other than what the Bible says. Because if that was the case, every religion, denomination is right as they "believe" G-d told them by His Spirit what to do...

Quote:
but the disagreement comes because you think what is written is all about living by the law and as Randy has said, as Tom has said, as I have said, and others have said, we don't see scriptures the way you do. And as Randy says, the Holy Spirit is NOT bearing witness with our spirits that we have to live according to something that no man before Christ could live or after Christ could live.


As I have been showing you & everyone else, Paul in the Book of Galatians is not saying what everybody has been taught that Paul is against the Law. Are you reading them? You are speaking of a legalistic god, are you aware of that my friend? Wasn't Y'shua in the beginning?

Quote:
Something that I have repeatedly asked you and have NEVER even gotten a hint of an answer is this: Outside of Jesus Christ, tell me one person who was ever able to meet the requirements of the law?


If I only had a nickel of how many times I have answerd this, I'll do it again Laughing No one has been able to keep ALL the Law, There are Laws for babies, children, married people, land of Y'srael, farmers, etc...

Quote:
I know the answer: NO ONE!! Why.... because the law was designed so that no one could keep it so that people would see their sinfulness and see their need for a Savior. That, my friend, was the purpose of the law.


This is 100% not True about the Law Tracy, where is your Scripture for it? The Law are guide lines to "live" (Dt 30:16, 19-20) in the earth. & yes it shows us who we are, & the need for a Savior. But the G-d of Heaven didn't give it to watch His creation continue to drop the ball everyday...... Rolling Eyes

Shalom Very Happy & do you have a comment on any of the Galatians stuff I put up, or does everybody want to get off this topic as no one has really said anything Wink
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11/4/10 10:21 pm


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Post P Randy Isa 58:12
Gal 3:19:... It was added "because" of transgressions.... The law of G-d was added when Adam sinned in the garden.

Quote:
Romans 5 wrote:
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

This Scripture states that there was a time before the Law was given. That is why it had to added, because it wasn't there!


Thats why G-d drowned the world in Noachs time, because they were "wicked, evil, etc". Something was said that would have called them wicked.

Why did you give Rom 7 as it is speaking of marriage laws? Rom 7:25: but with the flesh (mans will) the LAW "of" sin. Rom 8:2: For the Law of the Spirit (Rom 7:14) of Life is in Messiah Y'shua has made me FREE from the LAW of "sin" & "death" .... which came up in the garden with Adam.

So again P randy, none of these things are Torah, this is church doctrine though on how they teach out of it. But its just not so. Ps 19:7: For the LAW of Adonai is Perfect.....

Shalom Wink
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Post Re: P Randy Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Why did you give Rom 7 as it is speaking of marriage laws?


Because it is not speaking about marriage laws.

It is using the marriage covenant as an illustration of the difference between being under the Law (the husband still living) with being under Christ (the husband is dead and the woman is free from the law of marriage).

Before Christ died, it was the same as the woman still being married. After Christ died, it was the same as if the husband had died.

You have to carry the illustration to its conclusion.

Just as the husband dies and frees the wife from the law of marriage, we died with Christ and were freed from the Law of Moses.

Now we serve God according to the Spirit, not according to the written code.

And what I quoted to you, Isa, was not just "church doctrine", it was the very words of God Himself. I added nothing to them, and took nothing away from them. I quoted them verbatim.

Isa wrote:
Rom 7:25: but with the flesh (mans will) the LAW "of" sin. Rom 8:2: For the Law of the Spirit (Rom 7:14) of Life is in Messiah Y'shua has made me FREE from the LAW of "sin" & "death" .... which came up in the garden with Adam.

So again P randy, none of these things are Torah, this is church doctrine though on how they teach out of it. But its just not so. Ps 19:7: For the LAW of Adonai is Perfect.....

Shalom Wink


See my last paragraph above, the Scriptures I cited are not "church doctrine", they are the Word of God.

You did exactly with these Scriptures what I said you would do in a previous post. You denied the plain meaning of Scripture and substitued youi Torah-laundered version of reality. I'm beginning to doubt that you have the ability to read a text of Scripture and just let it say what it says.

There is no point in continuing this discussion. I'm disengaging.
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11/5/10 5:54 am


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Post Re: P Randy Isa 58:12
[quote="Randy Johnson"][quote="Isa 58:12"]
Code:
See my last paragraph above, the Scriptures I cited are not "church doctrine", they are the Word of God.


Yes please forgive me P Randy, I didn't clarify, I meant the "way" the church teaches on the Law. But as I have shown you in 3 or 4 examples out of Galatians Paul is not speaking that way about the Law. thats what I was saying.

Quote:
You did exactly with these Scriptures what I said you would do in a previous post. You denied the plain meaning of Scripture and substitued youi Torah-laundered version of reality. I'm beginning to doubt that you have the ability to read a text of Scripture and just let it say what it says.


I'm not denying the plain meaning of Scripture, I deny the way it is taught & preached. As I have shown in 3-4 examples in Galatians that Paul is not speaking Torah Law, he is speaking of the pharisees laws...

Quote:
There is no point in continuing this discussion. I'm disengaging.


Thats too bad randy, liked talking to you. & its too bad that I never got to hear what you thought of what I presented on Galatians just recently.

Shabbat Shalom pastor
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Post Re: P Randy Nature Boy Florida
Randy Johnson wrote:


You did exactly with these Scriptures what I said you would do in a previous post. You denied the plain meaning of Scripture and substitued your Torah-laundered version of reality. I'm beginning to doubt that you have the ability to read a text of Scripture and just let it say what it says.



There you go Randy. You have now caught up with the rest of us. Everyone kept trying to talk Galatians - and all Isa does is say - when are you going to comment on (my version) of Galatians? Weird stuff.
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Post Re: P Randy Randy Johnson
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Randy Johnson wrote:


You did exactly with these Scriptures what I said you would do in a previous post. You denied the plain meaning of Scripture and substitued your Torah-laundered version of reality. I'm beginning to doubt that you have the ability to read a text of Scripture and just let it say what it says.



There you go Randy. You have now caught up with the rest of us. Everyone kept trying to talk Galatians - and all Isa does is say - when are you going to comment on (my version) of Galatians? Weird stuff.


NBF, I haven't just caught up friend, I was one of the first to decipher what Isa was doing when he first began to post here. For a long time I ignored everything he posted in the interest of my blood pressure, but sometimes I get to the end of my patience, especially when fallacies are being promoted as truth.

I also want to present evidence that ever since he has been here, Isa has not been here to "discuss" anything. By his own words, he came here to teach all of us deficient goyim. The following was posted by Isa in the serious Bible study section on January 29, 2009:

Isa 58:12 wrote:

Shalom (hello) people,
Adonai (the L-rd) has opened this door to me to be a repairer of the breach, and to restore the paths back to dwell in. The paths that need to be restored back is the Torah, Law of Moses back to the believer in these last days. It is the "regeneration" that we are to walk in, follow Him in Matt 19:28. Which goes into Acts 3:19-21 "restitution", which means restoration that we are to walk in when Messaih Y'shua (Jesus) returns, others Titus 3:5 and Eph 2:10 in the greek word for "ordinance" which means; preparing men for good works (of Torah) by "regeneration" .

The Torah says in Deut 22:2-3 that it is my duty as a believer to return to my brothers something that they have lost, and my brethren have lost the Way (Torah) that was originally setup by Elohim (G-d). Because its beloved its faith in Y'shua (Jesus) and obedience, in keeping the Commandments, (Torah) Rev 14:12 . Both apply, they are intertwined. So in our Faith are we Christians or are we Jews by Faith
Pray and ask Yahveh, (the L-rd) for His total and complete guidance on this. I wanted to talk with a little more on whether we are Christians or Jews. I am so excited about I this subject that the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) was pulling up Scriptures in my mind about this wonderful topic. This is supossed to be for seriuos strudents (Talmudim in Hebrew) right, well does anyone want to be challenged ?, ok, now let’s see what the Bible says.

First we have to understand that the Bible was written by Yahoodim, (Jews). The New Covenant, or New Testament (Testament means Covenant) was Jewish because the Jews (Yahoodim) wrote it, Jer 31:31-34. Baptism is very Jewish because it went on in the Torah, (Law of Moses) in Num 19:9. Also in the Brit Chadasha, (N.T.) with Yochannan the emercer, (John the Baptist) before Y'shua (Jesus) showed up, Matt 3:1-5. Tithing is very Jewish because it started with Abraham, in Gen 14:20, etc.
Everything in Christianity is Jewish but the message, why . Receiving the baptism of the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) is very Jewish because it is the Spirit, (Ruach) of our Rabbi Y'shua. Discipleship, which in Hebrew is a Talmud (student) is very Jewish because it is (just as in the greek “mimites” which means “imitator”) radical “imitation” of our Jewish Rabbi Y'shua that we are called to in everything He did. We are to walk even as He walked 1 John 2:6, it is a Torah, Law of Moses observant Jewish life & walk. I could just end this post here and you could just "Selah" which means pause and think calmly on.

I have a question for you, why do the goyim, (gentiles) believe that they are called to be Christians when their Leader was never a Christian? Why do they believe that they are called to something their Leader wasn’t? Did you ever stop and think that Y'shua was never a Christian?

When you became a believer by receiving Y'shua HaMachiach (Jesus Christ) as your Savior, your Pesach, (Passover) Lamb of Elohim (G-d) you have now partook in your first Passover and you are now as one born in the land (Y’srael), Ex 12:49 & Rom 11:17. And you have now been circumcised in the Lev, (heart). Now being circumcised in the Lev, (heart) is not a N.T. thing, Elohim (G-d) did this in the Torah in Deut 30:6. And yes we are still supposed to circumcise our sons on the 8th day as Torah says in Gen 17:9-14.

Messiah is Torah because He is the Word (Torah) made flesh in John 1:14.

Now everybody reading this are in the valley of decision, Joel 3:14, because you need to decide what Covenant your in. The Jewish New Covenant (New in Hebrew is Hadas or Chadasha, which means “renewed”) or the Christian covenant?

Are you saved? Well of course you have been atoned for, but Messiah is coming back for His spotless Yahoodim Esha, (Jewish Bride), they are the ones who love Him for who He is (Jewish) and keep His Torah and wants to be Echad “(One)” with Him.


The Torah was and is the Covenant for the people of Elohim, (Jews) and Elohim cannot break Covenant, again Ps 89:34. The 7 Feasts, Sabbaths, Circumcision, Dietary, etc are in that Covenant. And if we are the “seed” of Abraham by Emunah, (Faith & Trusting) in Elohim (G-d) then the Torah is our walk with Elohim. It is the Path of Wisdom appointed to us Prov 4:11.

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Randy Johnson, Pastor
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11/7/10 8:16 am


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Post Re: P Randy Isa 58:12
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Randy Johnson wrote:


You did exactly with these Scriptures what I said you would do in a previous post. You denied the plain meaning of Scripture and substitued your Torah-laundered version of reality. I'm beginning to doubt that you have the ability to read a text of Scripture and just let it say what it says.



There you go Randy. You have now caught up with the rest of us. Everyone kept trying to talk Galatians - and all Isa does is say - when are you going to comment on (my version) of Galatians? Weird stuff.


Quote:
doubt that you have the ability to read a text of Scripture and just let it say what it says.


& this is the problem guys, there are many words in the N.T. that have been lost in translation. You will never get the full meaning of Scriptures in the english. You have to go back....
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11/7/10 9:44 am


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Post Nothing significant to add Mark Ledbetter
at this time... I just wanted to be the 100th reply.

I am, however, planning to address an issue that is often left out of the debate regarding the use of Torah, probably on a separate post.

Shalom, ya'll!
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11/7/10 11:46 am


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