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 Pentecostal crazies |
COGLayman |
Do you think people should be permitted to worship the Lord however they see fit or do you think there should be some basic order in the church? For example do you think the screamers, runners, jumpers, and similar types should be allowed to go nuts? I was in a church once that had a screamer. You always could tell when she was about to go off. I never could find screaming in the bible. It was very disturbing to the service (at least to me) but was allowed to go on until she finally wore herself out. It was hard for me to look at the woman without thinking she was crazy.
Should we let the crazies run loose? Or should there be some kind of order in the church? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 256
11/30/08 5:45 pm
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sheepdogandy |
If she is crazy, lock her up.
If she is genuinely worshipping.
Let her go.
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
11/30/08 5:47 pm
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michaelb |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | If she is crazy, lock her up.
If she is genuinely worshipping.
Let her go. |
Let her go?... distracting everyone else from worship and drawing attention to herself? Is worship a self absorbed event where you are the only one that matters? I'm not saying no, I'm asking how far do you let it go? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 335
11/30/08 6:07 pm
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| The Spirit will confirm.. |
SkyPilot |
If she is in order, God will confirm it in your spirit. If she is not, God will confirm that....
If she is not in order have a talk with her and sit her down.
You could even ask for several people to pray with you about the person and all of you can receive confirmation from the Holy spirit.
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Pax,
Skypilot |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 849
11/30/08 6:23 pm
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| Screamers, pew jumpers, and etc.. |
Pastors Friend |
I grew up with in Pentecost. As a child I often wondered why some had to scream like they were being stabbed with a dull knife. but the church I grew up in was basically an uneducated cotton mill church in the deep south. I now attribute it to the inability of the person to be able to express the joy they feel any other way. Even still it was unnerveing.  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1345
11/30/08 7:38 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Great insight PF.
Great advice Skypilot.
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
11/30/08 10:37 pm
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| Re: Pentecostal crazies |
Carolyn Smith |
| COGLayman wrote: | Do you think people should be permitted to worship the Lord however they see fit or do you think there should be some basic order in the church? For example do you think the screamers, runners, jumpers, and similar types should be allowed to go nuts? I was in a church once that had a screamer. You always could tell when she was about to go off. I never could find screaming in the bible. It was very disturbing to the service (at least to me) but was allowed to go on until she finally wore herself out. It was hard for me to look at the woman without thinking she was crazy.
Should we let the crazies run loose? Or should there be some kind of order in the church? |
Yes, there should be order in the service. 1 Corinthians 14 says that God is not the author of confusion. This chapter deals with how the Spirit operates in the church. It should be up to the pastor (or person in charge of the service at that time) to discern if the person is out of order or not. If he/she discerns they are out of order, the ushers should be pre-advised on how to deal with such a situation. At our church if a person begins to get a little out of order, sometimes the pastor will just lay hands on them and pray with them and they will calm down (or fall out.) One person should not be allowed to totally disrupt the flow of the service.
Having said that, I am also all for the Holy Spirit being allowed to move as He desires. The Spirit manifests in different ways through different people. While some people worship/rejoice quietly, others are quite loud. As long as it is truly the Spirit and it is the appropriate time, they should be allowed to worship/rejoice. You don't know what they've been through this week or what they face next week, and sometimes it is as we "let loose" in the Spirit, that our victory comes.
There was a lady at another church I attended that screamed, and it was just her way of worship...sort of a war cry whoop. It's not the only way she worshiped, but sometimes when the Spirit came on her, she'd cut loose. It was in order and did not disrupt the service. That's different than the same thing happening every service or disrupting the service. Bottom line, though, is that the buck stops with the pastor. It's his responsibility to allow the Spirit to flow but to keep order in the service.
The comment further down the board about someone screaming in a church was a basically an "uneducated cotton mill church" sounds a bit like the only ones who truly know how to worship are the more educated, more dignified folks...forgive me, but that sounds a little holier-than-thou.
Personally, I'd be more afraid of having a service dead and dry than one in which the Spirit was allowed to flow. We are Pentecostal, aren't we?
As I've heard it said, "God's not deaf, but He ain't nervous, either!"
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5923
11/30/08 11:34 pm
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| something I've been thinking of |
Leave_A_Trail |
similar thought, but taking risk with traditional worship.
Is there actually scriptual precedence for dancing, laughing, being slain "in the Spirit?" I know that we can be involved in various forms of worship - dancing, etc. - but is it truly "in the Spirit?" I say all of these are performed by our own volition.
If this is true, then we are slain . . . why?
I grew up Pentecostal, was involved in Pentecostal forms of worship, and went to a major Pentecostal college. Years later, my training causes me to insure that MY worship is full of integrity.
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"Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." |
Friendly Face
Posts: 231
11/30/08 11:59 pm
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2ndgeneration |
I am all for order in our worship services. However, outward expressions of worship have always been a part of a pentecostal style service. There will always be those who take things to the extreme. But as the old saying goes, "why throw the baby out with the bath water?" If someone gets out of hand, let the pastor or one whom he appoints talk with that person. But for heavens sake, do not hinder outward expressions of genuine. worship. It is okay to clap your hands, make a joyful shout to the Lord, dance in the Spirit, or leap for joy.
If we were to do as some here suggest, we would be no different than other mainline churches. I heard someone say years ago, "it's not shouting all the way, but thank God there is some shouting on the way." Call me old fashion but I still like see the demonstrations of real pentecostal worship. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1338
12/1/08 12:23 am
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| No - 1000 times No |
DoubtingNimrod |
Everything that God has done has been in order.
None of the "outward displays" such as running, shouting, falling out in the floor, rolling around and other displays can be proven in the Bible as a display of the Holy Spirit and neither should they be used to say that a person is spiritual or not spiritual.
Jesus never did any of this. The Apostles never did any of this. The Early Church never did any of this. These are just carnal displays of the flesh that draws attention away from God and places the attention on the person.
We should be looking for the "Fruit of the Spirit" and the "Gifts of the Spirit" in the life of the Believer - not if they shout, hoop, hollar and flop around on the floor like a fish.
This is the problem with Pentecost. None of these outward displays that Pentecostals claim as identifiers of Pentecost are scriptural - not one. Just because you see some one doing it does not make it Biblical. We should not form doctrinal stands on these issues or judge people becuause they do not do them. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 195
12/1/08 8:40 am
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| Re: No - 1000 times No |
PastorJackson |
| DoubtingNimrod wrote: | Everything that God has done has been in order.
None of the "outward displays" such as running, shouting, falling out in the floor, rolling around and other displays can be proven in the Bible as a display of the Holy Spirit and neither should they be used to say that a person is spiritual or not spiritual.
Jesus never did any of this. The Apostles never did any of this. The Early Church never did any of this. These are just carnal displays of the flesh that draws attention away from God and places the attention on the person.
We should be looking for the "Fruit of the Spirit" and the "Gifts of the Spirit" in the life of the Believer - not if they shout, hoop, hollar and flop around on the floor like a fish.
This is the problem with Pentecost. None of these outward displays that Pentecostals claim as identifiers of Pentecost are scriptural - not one. Just because you see some one doing it does not make it Biblical. We should not form doctrinal stands on these issues or judge people becuause they do not do them. |
Ok if this keeps up we will end up just like the Methodist, who started out very on fire and spirit filled, or how about the Anabaptist or Nazarene? These through the years have gotten cold and do not allow the gifts of the Spirit, I did not grow up Pentecostal, if I ever attended it was a Presbyterian or Methodist and later when I got saved Southern Baptist where I was not even allowed to clap! This drove me away for many years till I found a new type of worship where I was free to worship. I would rather have some extream worship than DEAD worship! Which is a oxymoron.
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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4743
12/1/08 9:56 am
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sheepdogandy |
Acts 2:15 "For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is [only] the third hour of the day.
I would dare say these folks were full of "integrity".
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7307
12/1/08 10:01 am
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bigd1974 |
| I believe we have to be careful that we don't fall into a trap of judging people regarding how they worship. Should there be order in the church regarding worship? Absolutely. Who is responsible for this? The pastor or his subordinates in his absence. On the day of Pentecost, there were people looking at the disciples saying, these men are drunk. And many looked at them and said, "What does this mean?" But Peter stood up and said, "These are not drunk as you suppose, but this is that which was spoken by the prophets." It seems that today, we as pentecostals tend to try to have an explanation for everything that God does, or how the Holy Spirit manifests himself. Being "slain in the spirit" or running, shouting, we try to have an answer for people that are asking "What does this mean?" "Is this God?" There are some things that cannot be explained, and if we cannot explain them, who are we to try to come up with an answer. I am sure when Jesus put mud and spittle in the blind man's eyes there were those that looked and said, that's just crazy. But the blind man didn't care, cause guess what, he ended up seeing it all. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 931
12/1/08 10:46 am
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| bump... |
Phil Hoover |
bump...bump...bump
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There is a ROCK between me and a hard place. His name is JESUS.
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Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15382
12/2/08 4:40 pm
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| Re: bump... |
mytimewillcome |
| Phil Hoover wrote: | | bump...bump...bump |
Will we be allowed to bump in Heaven? |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
12/2/08 4:41 pm
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| We had an issue with this |
HighlyFavoured |
A couple of sundays ago we had 100 people..it was a first for us since we had been there.
Anyways in the middle of worship a young girl decides to start praying for people...which was something that she was getting in the habit of doing..but that is another story.
Well...in the middle of transition from worship to offering she decides to bolt around the church screaming "get ready!!!!".
Runs up to the front and lays her hands on me and my husband and screams and bolts again.
It was done in flesh..that is another story too........
Anyways.........what she did wasn't wrong in itself so much as it was the wrong atmosphere. Had it been while everyone was worshipping it wouldn't have been no big deal...but she made a huge spectacle of herself.
That was what we tried to explain to her when we had a meeting...but this same girl left the church and has spread lies about us everywhere....(that's another story too)
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THE PROOF OF YOUR FAITH IS ALWAYS REVEALED IN THE PURSUIT OF THE UNSEEN |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 602
12/2/08 5:21 pm
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| Re: We had an issue with this |
bigd1974 |
| HighlyFavoured wrote: | A couple of sundays ago we had 100 people..it was a first for us since we had been there.
Anyways in the middle of worship a young girl decides to start praying for people...which was something that she was getting in the habit of doing..but that is another story.
Well...in the middle of transition from worship to offering she decides to bolt around the church screaming "get ready!!!!".
Runs up to the front and lays her hands on me and my husband and screams and bolts again.
It was done in flesh..that is another story too........
Anyways.........what she did wasn't wrong in itself so much as it was the wrong atmosphere. Had it been while everyone was worshipping it wouldn't have been no big deal...but she made a huge spectacle of herself.
That was what we tried to explain to her when we had a meeting...but this same girl left the church and has spread lies about us everywhere....(that's another story too) |
I guess the meaning of her shouting "Get Ready" meant, "Get Ready, i'm leaving and when I do you are gonna really experience some pain."
Seriously, this was (and sad to say) a situation where the young lady was out of order. You were right to attempt to counsel with her and to try to enlighten her. She was wrong for not submitting to correction and leaving with an immature attitude. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 931
12/2/08 7:34 pm
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Kyle Morrow |
| Didn't the man in Acts 3 who was healed at the gate called Beautiful run in the Temple praising God. Yes, it is Biblical. I know there are people who go overboard. Church is like cereal, you are bound to have some flakes. But I'd rather have to calm people down than have to resurrect the dead. I wish some of you skeptics would just get drunk in the Holy Ghost at the next service. It would do you some good. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
12/2/08 11:57 pm
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HighlyFavoured |
| Quote: | Kyle Morrow
Didn't the man in Acts 3 who was healed at the gate called Beautiful run in the Temple praising God. Yes, it is Biblical. I know there are people who go overboard. Church is like cereal, you are bound to have some flakes. But I'd rather have to calm people down than have to resurrect the dead. I wish some of you skeptics would just get drunk in the Holy Ghost at the next service. It would do you some good.
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Well...I guess we should just throw out that chapter in Corinthians then....gosh..why was that put in there anyway??? That just don't make sense.
There is a time and a place for everything...and that girl running around our church did nothing but cause confusion in a PENTECOSTAL church. It was out of line.
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THE PROOF OF YOUR FAITH IS ALWAYS REVEALED IN THE PURSUIT OF THE UNSEEN |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 602
12/3/08 9:16 am
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Kyle Morrow |
| I agree that girl was out of order. I was respoding to someone who stated that there was no Scriptural precedent for running and shouting. 1 Cor 14 deals with tongues, prophecy, and the role of women in church; it does not deal with expressions of worship such as running and shouting. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
12/3/08 11:25 am
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