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Update on dedicating an unwed mothers' baby...Comments?
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Post Update on dedicating an unwed mothers' baby...Comments? Circuit Riding Preacher
I posted a question about would any of you and how would you go about dedicating a child born to an unwed mother. Most of you just took issue with the fact that I used the legal term illegitimate.

This is what I decided to do. I sat down with the young lady and told her that I would gladly dedicate her newborn baby once we settled 2 issues.

Issue #1 - I needed to know that she had experienced a time of repentance with God as to how the baby was conceived. I know that men and women decide when they will be intimate but God decided when to create life. However, I cannot gloss over the fact that her child is a result of a sinful act, premarital sex. And I think that before she stands before the church and before God and vows to raise her daughter right that she needs to settle her sin with God.

Issue #2 - She needed to promise me that she would not be sexually active until she gets married. Again, it doesn't mean anything for her to dedicate her baby if she is not willing to be an example.

She is going to think about what I said and let me know if anything changes.

Do any of you agree with the way I handled this?
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3/27/06 1:52 pm


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Post Re: Update on dedicating an unwed mothers' baby...Comments? notwanghere
Circuit Riding Preacher wrote:
I posted a question about would any of you and how would you go about dedicating a child born to an unwed mother. Most of you just took issue with the fact that I used the legal term illegitimate.

This is what I decided to do. I sat down with the young lady and told her that I would gladly dedicate her newborn baby once we settled 2 issues.

Issue #1 - I needed to know that she had experienced a time of repentance with God as to how the baby was conceived. I know that men and women decide when they will be intimate but God decided when to create life. However, I cannot gloss over the fact that her child is a result of a sinful act, premarital sex. And I think that before she stands before the church and before God and vows to raise her daughter right that she needs to settle her sin with God.

Issue #2 - She needed to promise me that she would not be sexually active until she gets married. Again, it doesn't mean anything for her to dedicate her baby if she is not willing to be an example.

She is going to think about what I said and let me know if anything changes.

Do any of you agree with the way I handled this?


Sounds right to me. It's obvious by the fact she needs to think about it that she doesn't understand what Baby Dedication is.
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3/27/06 1:55 pm


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Post Whos' being blessed kyeagle
Who is being dedicated or blessed. The mother or the baby?

By refusing the baby this blessing, it's like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I've seen whole families come to God through Baby Dedications. What if the pastor refused to dedicate the baby based on the mother's past discretions?
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3/27/06 2:14 pm


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Post Re: Update on dedicating an unwed mothers' baby...Comments? Pastor Gary
Circuit Riding Preacher wrote:
Issue #1 - I needed to know that she had experienced a time of repentance with God as to how the baby was conceived.

Issue #2 - She needed to promise me that she would not be sexually active until she gets married.

Do any of you agree with the way I handled this?


Neither of those have anything to do with the baby; they both deal with the mother. If a hooker with AIDS came in and asked me to dedicate her 12th baby I'd do it. She may never change her ways at all, but if dedicating a child has any real meaning, any power besides ceremony, offering the child to the Lord is never the wrong thing to do, regardless of the mother.
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3/27/06 2:17 pm


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Post (L) notwanghere
To further understand the perspectives involved here it would be good to fully understand the rational behind this proper response.

http://actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=2934&highlight=baby+dedication
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3/27/06 2:22 pm


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Post But aren't child dedications really parental dedications? TarheelBishop
Isn't the act of child dedication really giving thanks for new life and the parents vowing to raise the child right and be a good, godly example?

How can a parent vow to do what is right in the future without first making amends for the past?

If it is all about the child and not about the sin then how do you explain God's judgment on David for his sin with Bathsheba? Wasn't it the child that died?
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3/27/06 2:23 pm


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Post Re: But aren't child dedications really parental dedications Pastor Gary
TarheelBishop wrote:
Isn't the act of child dedication really giving thanks for new life and the parents vowing to raise the child right and be a good, godly example?

How can a parent vow to do what is right in the future without first making amends for the past?

If it is all about the child and not about the sin then how do you explain God's judgment on David for his sin with Bathsheba? Wasn't it the child that died?


If two Christians come to dedicate a baby, I focus on them and their commitment to raise the child in a Godly home; if a sinner asks me to dedicate their baby, I still want to have the opportunity to affect that child's future life, so I focus on the baby and the promise of the future, etc.
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3/27/06 2:34 pm


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Post throughtheflood
I'm certainly not a minister. Just a mother and a Wednesday night teacher of a class of 6 - 10 year olds. I could not imagine not getting my hands on that baby and praying a hedge of protection and a blood covering over it. The mother needs to be talked with before and during the dedication about the responsibility this entails, just as everyone who dedicates a child. She just happens to have a sin that everyone knows about. I'm sure there have been those that have stood before ministers with hidden sins. I would hate for a child to grow up and be told someday that the preacher refused to dedicate them. Being born with out the benefits of both father and mother to care for them is harsh enough. Please don't add the burden that their birth was so bad until they couldn't be dedicated to God. Acts-celerater
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3/27/06 2:44 pm


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Post A view of baby dedication...from the pew...and a single man. Phil Hoover
While I respect all of the viewpoints that have been shared here, I have found this to be true of baby dedications:

1) The parent(s) are making a commitment to raise that child in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

2) The Local Church is making a commitment in assisting the parent(s) to raise that child in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

3) This act of dedication is not salvific (unless you are Catholic...but even then it's not, regardless of what they believe), and really, in my opinion, has minimal effect on the child.

My two-cents worth.

Phil Hoover
Chicago
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3/27/06 2:53 pm


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Post Re: A view of baby dedication...from the pew...and a single notwanghere
Phil Hoover wrote:
While I respect all of the viewpoints that have been shared here, I have found this to be true of baby dedications:

1) The parent(s) are making a commitment to raise that child in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

2) The Local Church is making a commitment in assisting the parent(s) to raise that child in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

3) This act of dedication is not salvific (unless you are Catholic...but even then it's not, regardless of what they believe), and really, in my opinion, has minimal effect on the child.

My two-cents worth.

Phil Hoover
Chicago


exactly
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3/27/06 2:56 pm


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Post And how about the single DAD? ProsperousBigMouth
My daughters boyfriend is the single dad of two BEAUTIFUL girls. Their Mom didn't want them...too much responsibility for her. Their Dad has them in church every time the door is opened. He has the support of his parents and every member of our church. The dedication of his babies was a wonderful time of commitment between him and God.
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3/27/06 3:02 pm


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Post Re: And how about the single DAD? Phil Hoover
ProsperousBigMouth wrote:
My daughters boyfriend is the single dad of two BEAUTIFUL girls. Their Mom didn't want them...too much responsibility for her. Their Dad has them in church every time the door is opened. He has the support of his parents and every member of our church. The dedication of his babies was a wonderful time of commitment between him and God.



Praise God for that precious father.

May the Lord give him the wisdom and grace he will need to raise them to be righteous women of God.

God be with him...always.


Phil Hoover
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Post Re: But aren't child dedications really parental dedications singer4him
TarheelBishop wrote:
Isn't the act of child dedication really giving thanks for new life and the parents vowing to raise the child right and be a good, godly example?

How can a parent vow to do what is right in the future without first making amends for the past?

If it is all about the child and not about the sin then how do you explain God's judgment on David for his sin with Bathsheba? Wasn't it the child that died?


I have always taken a baby dedication to be the parents and grandparents if applicable, dedicating the baby back to God Who gave the child to them but also, the parent's dedication to see that the child is reared in a Godly home and that their lives be the example. This is not to say that you can't pray God's protection over them if their parents aren't Christians but the act of dedication, itself is a commitment of both the parent(s) and the church to pray for the child and do their respective parts to see the child grow to know Christ as his/her personal Lord and Saviour.

To answer the question in the original post...I think that you handled the situation correctly.
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3/27/06 3:32 pm


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Post Re: A view of baby dedication...from the pew...and a single Porpoise Driven Neptune
Phil Hoover wrote:
While I respect all of the viewpoints that have been shared here, I have found this to be true of baby dedications:

1) The parent(s) are making a commitment to raise that child in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

2) The Local Church is making a commitment in assisting the parent(s) to raise that child in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

3) This act of dedication is not salvific (unless you are Catholic...but even then it's not, regardless of what they believe), and really, in my opinion, has minimal effect on the child.

My two-cents worth.

Phil Hoover
Chicago


Wow! I don't always agree with you, Phil, but you hit the nail on the head on this one. Too many Pentecostals seem to think that a dedication is a "dry baptism" that conveys some kind of status on a child.

It is evident from some of the posts in this thread and a recent related thread that there are CoG ministers out there who simply don't understand what a baby dedication is all about. When I hear statements like "It's not the baby's fault" I want to scream at our lack of understanding.

If you want to bless a baby then you don't need to go to through all the fuss of a dedication - just hold that child in your arms & pray God's blessings over it. I do this at every opportunity irrespective of whether the parents are saved or not. I recently did this when visiting a Muslim family. They were genuinely moved that I would bless their child & have asked me back to their home to discuss the Gospel.

A dedication, however, is an act that is primarily for the sake of the parents - not the child. It's very name - dedication - is about parents making a commitment to raise their child in a way that will encourage that child to make their own decision to follow Christ when they reach an age of accountability.

For a CoG minister to dedicate a child in the full knowledge that the mother intends to continue in an immoral lifestyle and has no intention of keeping her promises is nonsensical. It devalues this beautiful act of commitment. If we are going to do that then let's just be done with it and baptize infants!
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3/27/06 4:32 pm


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Post Re: A view of baby dedication...from the pew...and a single notwanghere
Porpoise Driven Neptune wrote:
Phil Hoover wrote:
While I respect all of the viewpoints that have been shared here, I have found this to be true of baby dedications:

1) The parent(s) are making a commitment to raise that child in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

2) The Local Church is making a commitment in assisting the parent(s) to raise that child in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

3) This act of dedication is not salvific (unless you are Catholic...but even then it's not, regardless of what they believe), and really, in my opinion, has minimal effect on the child.

My two-cents worth.

Phil Hoover
Chicago


Wow! I don't always agree with you, Phil, but you hit the nail on the head on this one. Too many Pentecostals seem to think that a dedication is a "dry baptism" that conveys some kind of status on a child.

It is evident from some of the posts in this thread and a recent related thread that there are CoG ministers out there who simply don't understand what a baby dedication is all about. When I hear statements like "It's not the baby's fault" I want to scream at our lack of understanding.

If you want to bless a baby then you don't need to go to through all the fuss of a dedication - just hold that child in your arms & pray God's blessings over it. I do this at every opportunity irrespective of whether the parents are saved or not. I recently did this when visiting a Muslim family. They were genuinely moved that I would bless their child & have asked me back to their home to discuss the Gospel.

A dedication, however, is an act that is primarily for the sake of the parents - not the child. It's very name - dedication - is about parents making a commitment to raise their child in a way that will encourage that child to make their own decision to follow Christ when they reach an age of accountability.

For a CoG minister to dedicate a child in the full knowledge that the mother intends to continue in an immoral lifestyle and has no intention of keeping her promises is nonsensical. It devalues this beautiful act of commitment. If we are going to do that then let's just be done with it and baptize infants!


I like you PDN, am amazed at the lack of understanding of basic ecclesiastical practices some express. Man, somewhere there has been a real failure.
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3/27/06 4:37 pm


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Post Re: But aren't child dedications really parental dedications Pastor Gary
singer4him wrote:
I have always taken a baby dedication to be... but the act of dedication, itself is a commitment of both the parent(s) and the church to pray for the child and do their respective parts to see the child grow to know Christ as his/her personal Lord and Saviour.


I am sure you will post some New Testament scripture that presents a "correct" formula for a Baby Dedication and confirms that "the act of dedication, itself is a commitment of both the parent(s) and the church to pray for the child and do their respective parts to see the child grow to know Christ as his/her personal Lord and Saviour". As far as I can find, there is no formula for dedication of a child, and no guidelines in the New Testament for the precise meaning of and/or necessary elements of doing so.

I stand amazed that so many would not take the opportunity to prophecy over a baby and pray the Lord's blessings over that child even if the parents were falling down drunks, absent altogether or in prison for murder. It's NOT a "parent dedication" but a BABY dedication, and God's representative in my community and in my church I will take every opportunity to hold a baby and pray that God would change the child's natural destiny and cause the cjild to grow up to be a man oor woman of character and Godliness -- even if it is despite the example of the parents.
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Post Another comment from the minority kyeagle
I understand that the Dedication is for the parents. But is it so wrong for her to want to dedicate her baby.

By not dedicating this baby, are you taking a chance that the mother will further distance herself from the church? If that mother knows her baby has been dedicated to God and that she has been charged with that baby's future involvement with church and God, she just may start coming to church and if she's around enough, who knows, the conviction may overwhelm her and draw her to the altar.

Refuse to do this and you risk pushing her away.
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3/27/06 5:24 pm


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Post Re: But aren't child dedications really parental dedications singer4him
Pastor Gary wrote:
singer4him wrote:
I have always taken a baby dedication to be... but the act of dedication, itself is a commitment of both the parent(s) and the church to pray for the child and do their respective parts to see the child grow to know Christ as his/her personal Lord and Saviour.


I am sure you will post some New Testament scripture that presents a "correct" formula for a Baby Dedication and confirms that "the act of dedication, itself is a commitment of both the parent(s) and the church to pray for the child and do their respective parts to see the child grow to know Christ as his/her personal Lord and Saviour". As far as I can find, there is no formula for dedication of a child, and no guidelines in the New Testament for the precise meaning of and/or necessary elements of doing so.

I stand amazed that so many would not take the opportunity to prophecy over a baby and pray the Lord's blessings over that child even if the parents were falling down drunks, absent altogether or in prison for murder. It's NOT a "parent dedication" but a BABY dedication, and God's representative in my community and in my church I will take every opportunity to hold a baby and pray that God would change the child's natural destiny and cause the cjild to grow up to be a man oor woman of character and Godliness -- even if it is despite the example of the parents.


Pastor Gary, if you're going to quote me, please include the entire sentence and not just a portion. The entire sentence was: This is not to say that you can't pray God's protection over them if their parents aren't Christians but the act of dedication, itself is a commitment of both the parent(s) and the church to pray for the child and do their respective parts to see the child grow to know Christ as his/her personal Lord and Saviour.

As you can see, I didn't say that we shouldn't pray covering and protection over them. I believe that we should but I don't think that this would constitute a "baby dedication." I am not saying that you shouldn't minister to the parent(s) but I don't believe that this is the issue here. I believe that the original poster is striving to do just that...minister to a young unwed mother.

When my oldest son was dedicated in our home church, there were several other babies that were dedicated the same day. Of those other babies, two were born to single moms. Both of these women, however, had recognized their sin and were striving to live their lives according to God's principles and bring their babies up to know Him. They were there for the same purpose that I and my husband were there, to commit to bring up my son in the fear and the admonition of the Lord.
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3/27/06 5:39 pm


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Post Re: But aren't child dedications really parental dedications notwanghere
Pastor Gary wrote:
singer4him wrote:
I have always taken a baby dedication to be... but the act of dedication, itself is a commitment of both the parent(s) and the church to pray for the child and do their respective parts to see the child grow to know Christ as his/her personal Lord and Saviour.


I am sure you will post some New Testament scripture that presents a "correct" formula for a Baby Dedication and confirms that "the act of dedication, itself is a commitment of both the parent(s) and the church to pray for the child and do their respective parts to see the child grow to know Christ as his/her personal Lord and Saviour". As far as I can find, there is no formula for dedication of a child, and no guidelines in the New Testament for the precise meaning of and/or necessary elements of doing so.

I stand amazed that so many would not take the opportunity to prophecy over a baby and pray the Lord's blessings over that child even if the parents were falling down drunks, absent altogether or in prison for murder. It's NOT a "parent dedication" but a BABY dedication, and God's representative in my community and in my church I will take every opportunity to hold a baby and pray that God would change the child's natural destiny and cause the cjild to grow up to be a man oor woman of character and Godliness -- even if it is despite the example of the parents.


I think the confusion may rest with who is doing the presenting before the Lord. In every Biblical situation the parents presented the Child to the Lord! In modern usage the Pastor is but the conduit to fulfil the parents commitment to raise the child in the wisdom and fear of the Lord. To imply to the parent(s) that "we" are "dedicating" the child is to imply that the Child will have a different standing with the Lord, after our prayer, than before. This is of course erroneous.

If there is any "prophesy" to be given, it would best be directed towards to the parent so the child may grow up in a Christian home.
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3/27/06 5:42 pm


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Post Re: But aren't child dedications really parental dedications Pastor Gary
singer4him wrote:
Pastor Gary, if you're going to quote me, please include the entire sentence and not just a portion.


No attempt to twist your words, at all -- just indicating the post to which I was responding without the whole long thing repeating again. (Blackberry and Treo users, here's where you say "THANKS!" Very Happy )

singer4him wrote:
They were there for the same purpose that I and my husband were there, to commit to bring up my son in the fear and the admonition of the Lord.


))))))SIGH((((((( Okay. I get it. In your tradition, in the culture and place you live all Baby Dedications are basically ceremonies in which the PARENT'S are charged with good parenting. I am saying that is fine, but not necessarily a NT practice outlined in scripture, and that there could be a hundred variants of that practice appropriate for other places and cultural traditions.

In the Bahamas COGOP all people water baptized wear white gowns and turbans -- a cultural tradition. I baptize people in surf shorts and T-shirts. Our cultural practice.
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