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 Re: Why we are losing our BRIGHTEST and our BEST |
Travis Johnson |
| roughridercog wrote: | Is God using them? Great.
But that doesn't meant that the place God wants them to bloom is within the organization.
Our brightest and best of this generation in the Church of God will rise to the top. Cream always does. |
Cream rises to the top and PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD rolls down hill. When they meet in the middle, we lose guys like Paul Conn's son-in-law and daughter. Tony Byrd is one of the sharpest young pastors I've ever known. He is supposed to be COG. He's an incredibly decent person/leader whom I admire. And, it angers me that after generations of loyalty to the denomination, someone like him can be thrown away like a piece of refuse by a heartless bureaucracy.
Tony has done well. People like him do not depend on the COG. But, like you said in an earlier post to Kevin, we are poorer for his experience. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7862
3/29/07 8:30 am
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Telecaster |
| I would like to understand how individuals are thrown out as we're talking about here? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/29/07 8:36 am
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| BAM BAM BAM My gavel is a flying |
Judge Roy Bean |
Let there be order on the board.
The court will make a ruling on the board. Now there is a precedent here that will make all things clear pard. Out here in West Texas I've had plenty of deputies down through the years. Some were great and dragged in one lawbreaker after another for a taste of West Texas justice and some of them were worthless I tell you what.
Some of those good deputies decided they didn't want to work for the old judge. They accepted a position up in Oklahoma in Tombstone. Now this don't mean that they ain't great lawmen. They are. It just means they ain't Texas lawmen any more.
Now it's the same way with these folks wanting to leave the Church of God. If they're a wanting to go out and be a hired gun somewhere else, I have no problem with that. Good justice is good justice.
It just means they're not Church of God.
There are plenty of good men willing to be deputies and there are plenty of fine young folks wanting to be Church of God ministers. They will work hard to be our brightest and best. So let's give them a horse, a colt, a belt of bullets, and a whole range full of outlaws.
I give them the great Texas commission. Go out into all the range and cast a wide loop I tell you what.
Bring in who you catch. Justice will be served.
BAM BAM BAM
Next case!
_________________
Never ask a man where he's from. If he's from Texas, he'll tell you. If he's not, don't embarrass him. |
Get a rope
Posts: 181
3/29/07 8:47 am
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| Re: Let me weigh in here |
KevinLloyd |
| Telecaster wrote: | If the COG is dead in 25 years, it's because of the emergent moving coming in and uprooting everything that is Biblical and foundational in our churches.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it's because it's been over run by emergent churches not preaching the gospel but just attempting to bring whosoever will into the church.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because young hot shots who have no desire to learn from their superiors and understand the history of our movement (Pentocostal not just COG) and refuse to learn from others.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because churches have sold out to entertaining people rather than the truth.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because churches failed to realize that entertainment and emotionalism has never and will never save anyone.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, we'll witness the demise of Pentecost in America because the Pentecost being preached, or mostly not preached by these new churches, is far from the Word.
Lastly, if the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll simply be because we "emerged" so much that people can't tell the difference between the church and the world.
By the way Kevin, by your own admission on this board, your church will not be Church of God. If you're getting help from the COG to build this church, would you like me to call the state office and let them know your intentions or would you be the honorable man and do it? You guys complain about "taxes" yet it's because of your "visions" that we sow our money into works that never pan out for the COG.
How's this one . . . if the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because individuals took the money the COG offered to start their church and left the COG after it's over. For your sake, I hope you're not doing this, because you'll lose your church. If it's COG's money, it's COG's church. |
first off, this is an arrogant post.
now, i don't know how many times or ways i can say this. I AM GETTING NO FUNDING FROM THE COG. so don't challenge me on being an honorable man when you speak to others w/ such arrogance and belittlement.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/29/07 9:29 am
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| Kevin |
Phil Hoover |
| KevinLloyd wrote: | | Telecaster wrote: | If the COG is dead in 25 years, it's because of the emergent moving coming in and uprooting everything that is Biblical and foundational in our churches.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it's because it's been over run by emergent churches not preaching the gospel but just attempting to bring whosoever will into the church.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because young hot shots who have no desire to learn from their superiors and understand the history of our movement (Pentocostal not just COG) and refuse to learn from others.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because churches have sold out to entertaining people rather than the truth.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because churches failed to realize that entertainment and emotionalism has never and will never save anyone.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, we'll witness the demise of Pentecost in America because the Pentecost being preached, or mostly not preached by these new churches, is far from the Word.
Lastly, if the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll simply be because we "emerged" so much that people can't tell the difference between the church and the world.
By the way Kevin, by your own admission on this board, your church will not be Church of God. If you're getting help from the COG to build this church, would you like me to call the state office and let them know your intentions or would you be the honorable man and do it? You guys complain about "taxes" yet it's because of your "visions" that we sow our money into works that never pan out for the COG.
How's this one . . . if the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because individuals took the money the COG offered to start their church and left the COG after it's over. For your sake, I hope you're not doing this, because you'll lose your church. If it's COG's money, it's COG's church. |
first off, this is an arrogant post.
now, i don't know how many times or ways i can say this. I AM GETTING NO FUNDING FROM THE COG. so don't challenge me on being an honorable man when you speak to others w/ such arrogance and belittlement. |
Thank you Kevin for clearing that up.
And of course some of the participants here will challenge anyone and anything---behind the cowardice of a pen-name, of course.
They will challenge anyone and anything--with or without information...and it's usually WITHOUT...
Blessings on you Kevin!
_________________
There is a ROCK between me and a hard place. His name is JESUS.
www.philhoover-chicago.blogspot.com |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15383
3/29/07 9:33 am
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| Re: Let me weigh in here |
vintagefaith77 |
| Telecaster wrote: | If the COG is dead in 25 years, it's because of the emergent moving coming in and uprooting everything that is Biblical and foundational in our churches.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it's because it's been over run by emergent churches not preaching the gospel but just attempting to bring whosoever will into the church.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because young hot shots who have no desire to learn from their superiors and understand the history of our movement (Pentocostal not just COG) and refuse to learn from others.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because churches have sold out to entertaining people rather than the truth.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because churches failed to realize that entertainment and emotionalism has never and will never save anyone.
If the COG is dead in 25 years, we'll witness the demise of Pentecost in America because the Pentecost being preached, or mostly not preached by these new churches, is far from the Word.
Lastly, if the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll simply be because we "emerged" so much that people can't tell the difference between the church and the world.
By the way Kevin, by your own admission on this board, your church will not be Church of God. If you're getting help from the COG to build this church, would you like me to call the state office and let them know your intentions or would you be the honorable man and do it? You guys complain about "taxes" yet it's because of your "visions" that we sow our money into works that never pan out for the COG.
How's this one . . . if the COG is dead in 25 years, it'll be because individuals took the money the COG offered to start their church and left the COG after it's over. For your sake, I hope you're not doing this, because you'll lose your church. If it's COG's money, it's COG's church. |
if the COG is dead in 25 years, it will be because of IGNORANT people like yourself!  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1807
3/29/07 9:39 am
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| Re: Let me weigh in here |
KariJay |
quote]
if the COG is dead in 25 years, it will be because of IGNORANT people like yourself! [/quote]
Vintage...you know I like you. I've always enjoyed your post and I think you're wife is one of the coolest chicks on the board. But really...what makes telecaster's post ignorant?
Do you not find fault with guys that are getting financial assitance from the COG then leaving a bit ungrateful? And the statements he made above that were true...if the COG is dead in 25 years it's going to be because a bunch of young emergent preachers decided to make the church look so much like the world, the Holy Spirit won't reside there anymore. That is VERY scary to me. Are we going to lose the power and annointing and presence of God because we want to make sure we're up in numbers?
I was talking to the kids last night about the book of Samuel chapter 3 and how the Philestines and the Israelites were in battle and the Israelites brought the Ark of the Covenant with them to battle. The Philestines saw that as a breaking point. If they were going to put the presence of God in their camp, that meant the Philestines had to fight harder to break in. And guess what? They were successful. There IS such a thing as letting too much of the world into our churches...and because of that, we put ourselves at risk of losing God's hand on our ministries.
We put a stamp on it, "Well, we've got God so anything we do is okay...even if it means feeding our flesh." That's just not the case.
_________________
www.twitter.com/karijay
www.karilife.com
Living Life...Learning Life...Loving Life... |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4825
3/29/07 9:59 am
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| whoooo... |
prefontaine |
Why does it seem like you either have a lot of people, OR you are the anointing? We don't have to compromise the message of salvation in order to get a lot of people. If you read the church websites of several of the pastors we are tagging as emergent, they say that.
We exist to help people become fully devoted followers of Christ. To help people find the answers and hope they have been searching for so desperately.
-Kevin Lloyd, Epic Church
The services are creative, interactive, meaningful, and spiritually engaging.
-Travis Johnson, Life-Pointe
First, the Bible says that mankind has a problem; through decisions of utter self interest called sin we have become separated from a vital relationship with God and find ourselves on our own. Sin-orientation is our life. Every one of us has the problem of sin and the propensity to commit sin (Romans 3:23). And the Bible teaches us that there is a consequence to sin - sin separates us from a holy, and loving God (Habakkuk 1:13) and damages our relationships with other and even ourselves. Sin is the root cause behind all that is wrong in the world and all that wrong with humanity. In fact, the Bible tells us that end result of sin is death (eternal separation from God -Romans 6:23) and that there is nothing that we ourselves can do to solve the problem of sin in our lives by our own power or intellect.
Second, the Bible says that there is a solution to the problem of sin, and that solution is the person of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:23). We need to explore the words and teachings of Jesus. We need to examine the wisdom of his ways. Then, we need to make a decision to abide b His teachings, follow His ways or stay on our own. The Bible tells us that God loved us so much that he sent Jesus, His only Son, to live as a model of how life should be lived, to show us that people and God's purposes are worth dying for, and then to die for our sin (John 3:16). Jesus paid the penalty of your sin so that you would not have to be forever separated from God (I John 4:10). The Bible also tells us that Jesus' selfless life of serving and ultimate act dying is the only solution for our sin problem and the problems that plague our fallen world (John 14:6). It is a mysterious and wonderful thing God has done.
-Phil Underwood, The Point
We sometimes get so bent out of shape about the something another church or pastor is doing we automatically say they are compromising. I have seen this from both sides of the spectrum, the large church and the small church. In the famous words of Rodney King, :Can't we all just get along?" |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5103
3/29/07 10:27 am
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| Re: whoooo... |
KevinLloyd |
| prefontaine wrote: | Why does it seem like you either have a lot of people, OR you are the anointing? We don't have to compromise the message of salvation in order to get a lot of people. If you read the church websites of several of the pastors we are tagging as emergent, they say that.
We exist to help people become fully devoted followers of Christ. To help people find the answers and hope they have been searching for so desperately.
-Kevin Lloyd, Epic Church
The services are creative, interactive, meaningful, and spiritually engaging.
-Travis Johnson, Life-Pointe
First, the Bible says that mankind has a problem; through decisions of utter self interest called sin we have become separated from a vital relationship with God and find ourselves on our own. Sin-orientation is our life. Every one of us has the problem of sin and the propensity to commit sin (Romans 3:23). And the Bible teaches us that there is a consequence to sin - sin separates us from a holy, and loving God (Habakkuk 1:13) and damages our relationships with other and even ourselves. Sin is the root cause behind all that is wrong in the world and all that wrong with humanity. In fact, the Bible tells us that end result of sin is death (eternal separation from God -Romans 6:23) and that there is nothing that we ourselves can do to solve the problem of sin in our lives by our own power or intellect.
Second, the Bible says that there is a solution to the problem of sin, and that solution is the person of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:23). We need to explore the words and teachings of Jesus. We need to examine the wisdom of his ways. Then, we need to make a decision to abide b His teachings, follow His ways or stay on our own. The Bible tells us that God loved us so much that he sent Jesus, His only Son, to live as a model of how life should be lived, to show us that people and God's purposes are worth dying for, and then to die for our sin (John 3:16). Jesus paid the penalty of your sin so that you would not have to be forever separated from God (I John 4:10). The Bible also tells us that Jesus' selfless life of serving and ultimate act dying is the only solution for our sin problem and the problems that plague our fallen world (John 14:6). It is a mysterious and wonderful thing God has done.
-Phil Underwood, The Point
We sometimes get so bent out of shape about the something another church or pastor is doing we automatically say they are compromising. I have seen this from both sides of the spectrum, the large church and the small church. In the famous words of Rodney King, :Can't we all just get along?" |
thanks for that. i'm with you on this. it's not that we are compromising anything to reach people. what we argue about so much is mainly a "style war". which is stupid. we are on the same team.
_________________
Kevin Lloyd
Executive Pastor
Stevens Creek Church
www.kevinlloydlive.com
www.twitter.com/kevinlloyd |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 830
3/29/07 11:00 am
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| Just a thought! |
Rayford J. Bethune |
Can someone name 100 ministers that have left the COG in the last 10 years because of the COGs failure to "evolve"? Not those that left because they think the church is to liberal.
Does anyone know how many young ministers have received their credentials in the last 10 years?
I do not know the numbers. ( I am not even considering the older ministers, not for lack of respect, just because of the topic) But I would imagine that there are many more coming in than are leaving.
Of course, the topic is our youngest and brightest leaving. Which again is only an opinion!!!!! Remember, young don't make you bright and bright don't make you young.
I wonder if in 25 years from now, providing the lord tarries( I will exclude the fact some believe the COG will be dead) how those that feel alright bashing our leadership and forgetting to submit to those over you in the Lord will react when what they are doing today is a thing of the past.
Never mind, they will adjust because of spiritual maturity.
Just a thought!
Rayford J. Bethune
Senior Pastor, The Refuge
Fort Payne, Alabama |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 52
3/29/07 11:39 am
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Telecaster |
Wasn't accusing you Kevin. I was just making a statement. You said you're not receiving any funding. I believe you, but I did want to ask and I felt perfectly entitled to express my feelings on the matter if you were taking them, and now that I know you're not, I feel just as perfectly obliged to express my feelings on that matter as well. Good for you. I'm glad you can hold your head high, but you and I both know, many cannot.
Ignorant post? I'd like you to tell me vintage about why my post is ignorant. I don't see any ignorance in it. Show me where I'm wrong scripturally. Show me where I'm wrong in that standard and I'll admit to ignorance. As of now, you'r opinion that my statements are ignorant based on your own decision to not want to accept them only reeks of ignorance. If you plan to take the time to label the statements, at least let us all know why you feel they are.
Also, there is nothing arrogant about my post at all. Please somebody show me arrogance in the post. I don't lift or exalt myself or my thinking. I make very precise statements of ideals and convictions that I feel are conveyed in the Word of God. If making statements without referring to how great I am or anyone else is or bragging of something is considered arrogant, really we're in a lot of trouble. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/29/07 11:47 am
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| I am sorry KariJay... |
SkyPilot |
| KariJay wrote: | | Skypilot...I seriously resent your statement about young people being know-it-alls...as a gal in my twenties I can tell you, I don't take for granted the guidance God has blessed me with and I certainly do not think I know it all or know how to do it better. You don't know all the young adults of the world...so please don't make harsh generalizations based on how your sons are. |
In 20 more years you will realize that although you are a person of great judgment in your 20's (I do believe you are a person of good judgment), you will be a person of much better judgment at 40 and 50. That is the way God made it. The younger people are head strong and pointed and drive us older people to think and challenge.
Be sure and know that my characterization of young people as arrogant and know-it-alls is not an indictment. That is the way it should be. If the youngsters are not the idealistic ones, we would never change and would still live in a cave. I appreciate and love the fact that my 20 something children drive me to change and curiosity.
_________________
Pax,
Skypilot |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 849
3/29/07 11:52 am
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| Re: A quick thought or two or three... |
SkyPilot |
| Telecaster wrote: |
I'm trying to understand your post. It makes no sense and is filled with ignorant opinions friend. To say ALL young people in their 20's are full of themselves. . . . Come on man, that's just lame. That couldn't be further from the truth. You have nothing to stand upon other than your mentioned self experience. If you'll reread your post, maybe you'll see you hadn't changed so much.
Seriously, there are tons of 20 year old and 30 year old ministers out there that are doing great things in the COG and great exploits in ministry. Some let it get to their head as much as older people do, and some maintain their focus on Christ, just like some older people do. You can't classify all into a category, nor can you say a majority unless you've got a poll that's been tried and tested.
It's amazing how in the same post, you say that the COG needs the young preachers to step up and lead the way in reaching the next generation and so forth and so on . . . . then you say they're a bunch of know-it-alls who need to learn. Come on man, which is it. |
Telecaster,
I surely did not make myself clear. I am not slamming the younger folks. I think it is necessary for there to be strong willed, sometimes arrogant and even know-it-all youth in order to move old codgers like me off the dime and into working for Christ. I fully appreciate the power of youth to move an organization. In no way to I want to criticize them. I want the next generation of leaders to be idealist who think their ideas are the only ones that work. I firmly believe that if we start with youth full of vim and vigor, we will have leaders of the future who are not so parochial and cognizant of "turf".
I also made no mention to whether the 20-30 somethings are doing a good job or not. I know for a fact there are many 20-30 something ministers who are doing great things for God. If you read my post I think you will see that I am not knocking the younger folks. If anything I am slamming on those who are do not allow our young leaders to lead. i am knocking on those who do not mentor, teach and direct but would rather criticize and tear down. I really believe that the 20-30 somethings are going to be the next generation of senior leaders in COG and that they will lead it well, IN THE DIRECTION GOD WANTS FOR HIS CHURCH. Not in the direction you or I want it to go.
Lastly, if you think I am a jerk now....talk to some who knew me when 
_________________
Pax,
Skypilot |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 849
3/29/07 12:06 pm
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| Re: Let me weigh in here |
vintagefaith77 |
| KariJay wrote: | quote]
if the COG is dead in 25 years, it will be because of IGNORANT people like yourself! |
Vintage...you know I like you. I've always enjoyed your post and I think you're wife is one of the coolest chicks on the board. But really...what makes telecaster's post ignorant?
Do you not find fault with guys that are getting financial assitance from the COG then leaving a bit ungrateful? And the statements he made above that were true...if the COG is dead in 25 years it's going to be because a bunch of young emergent preachers decided to make the church look so much like the world, the Holy Spirit won't reside there anymore. That is VERY scary to me. Are we going to lose the power and annointing and presence of God because we want to make sure we're up in numbers?
I was talking to the kids last night about the book of Samuel chapter 3 and how the Philestines and the Israelites were in battle and the Israelites brought the Ark of the Covenant with them to battle. The Philestines saw that as a breaking point. If they were going to put the presence of God in their camp, that meant the Philestines had to fight harder to break in. And guess what? They were successful. There IS such a thing as letting too much of the world into our churches...and because of that, we put ourselves at risk of losing God's hand on our ministries.
We put a stamp on it, "Well, we've got God so anything we do is okay...even if it means feeding our flesh." That's just not the case.[/quote]
It's ignorant because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he said about the emerging movement is indicative of 99% of the emerging/missional churches I have come across!! It would be like saying all COG's are snake handlers and drink poison because some flaky, crazy COG out in West Virginia does that. Telecastor and others have come across some website that lumps all innovative and creative people into this 'emerging heretic' category and they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about! These same websites bash Pentecostals as unbiblical and heretics, but Telecastor convientently ignores those opinions. His post displays fear, judgmentalism and pure ignorance of people that actually are 'emerging'. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1807
3/29/07 12:48 pm
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| Re: I am sorry KariJay... |
KariJay |
| SkyPilot wrote: | | KariJay wrote: | | Skypilot...I seriously resent your statement about young people being know-it-alls...as a gal in my twenties I can tell you, I don't take for granted the guidance God has blessed me with and I certainly do not think I know it all or know how to do it better. You don't know all the young adults of the world...so please don't make harsh generalizations based on how your sons are. |
In 20 more years you will realize that although you are a person of great judgment in your 20's (I do believe you are a person of good judgment), you will be a person of much better judgment at 40 and 50. That is the way God made it. The younger people are head strong and pointed and drive us older people to think and challenge.
Be sure and know that my characterization of young people as arrogant and know-it-alls is not an indictment. That is the way it should be. If the youngsters are not the idealistic ones, we would never change and would still live in a cave. I appreciate and love the fact that my 20 something children drive me to change and curiosity. |
Oh...I have no doubt that as I get older I will grow in wisdom and knowledge greater than I have now. I respect those who have paved the way for my ministry and love and appreciate them. But to say that all 20-somethings are arrogant and ignorant would be incorrect. I try to consciously keep myself humble. For the simple fact that when I DO act like I know it all, I feel horrible afterwards! I am far from knowing it all and most times feel very inadequate. Not all young adults are how you describe. Maybe a vast majority...but definitely not all.
_________________
www.twitter.com/karijay
www.karilife.com
Living Life...Learning Life...Loving Life... |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4825
3/29/07 1:09 pm
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| Vintage... |
KariJay |
Well, I'm sorry to say but I agreed with the vast majority of his post. And maybe it's because what I've seen of the emergent movement has made me believe that. It's not because I'm being judgemental...it's just how I perceive what's going on.
Oh, I definitely believe you can be moving forward without compromising holiness. I really do. But from what I've seen, that hasn't happened. The vast majority of emergent stuff is a feeling tickler...it doesn't make you feel that bad about your sin.
To me, the traditional foundation has always brought me back to holiness as the standard for living my life and I constantly want to be pushed to be more and more holy. If I go to a church that doesn't give me strong conviction about things I'm doing wrong, there is a problem there and I'm no longer growing in the Lord.
_________________
www.twitter.com/karijay
www.karilife.com
Living Life...Learning Life...Loving Life... |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4825
3/29/07 1:14 pm
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| Re: Let me weigh in here |
Telecaster |
| vintagefaith77 wrote: | | It's ignorant because ABSOLUTELY NOTHING he said about the emerging movement is indicative of 99% of the emerging/missional churches I have come across!! It would be like saying all COG's are snake handlers and drink poison because some flaky, crazy COG out in West Virginia does that. Telecastor and others have come across some website that lumps all innovative and creative people into this 'emerging heretic' category and they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about! These same websites bash Pentecostals as unbiblical and heretics, but Telecastor convientently ignores those opinions. His post displays fear, judgmentalism and pure ignorance of people that actually are 'emerging'. |
No vintage, I worked in an emergent church and partnered with many other, and I've seen the fallacies first hand. I see them around me where I am now. I see them from some remarks some of the other emergent preachers on here make about their activities and services. I see them on TV, and more importantly, I hear about them from people in my community that ask real questions as to why certain things have been allowed in churches. That's not ignorance friend. Ignorance is accepting the fact that because a movement has become successful at building numbers, then that means they are also making a difference in the world and impacting and discipling souls for eternity. We do have to come out an be seperate in this world. The fact that many today can still go to church on a regular basis and find it ok to live in sin and not experience a complete life change that results in every aspect of life from desires, to tastes, to wishes, to wants, to hobbies, to entertainment, and so forth is troubling. That's not ignorant friend. I know there are some churches labeled emergent that do a good job. But there seems to be more that do the opposite.
I'm not afraid at all. If I spoke from fear, I wouldn't have spoken at all. I have nothing to fear. The only thing I do fear is these poor souls who aren't being told entire truths in many churches, whether emergent or not, that live thinking everything is ok only to stand before an awesome judging God one day and after they run off a list of things they've done for Him and how good they've been and how much they love Him, to simply hear Him say depart, I never knew you.
I'm not afraid of the emergent movement vintage. If you knew me and my ministry, you'd know I am extremely progressive in my ministries, but you don't know me. Instead you choose to label me a coward, judgmental, and ignorant. Those accusations being made without knowing the person behind the comment makes you ignorant friend.
If I'm arrogant, let me be arrogant as Paul said. I don't boast in me, but Christ that is in me. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1882
3/29/07 1:21 pm
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| Re: Let me weigh in here |
vintagefaith77 |
| Telecaster wrote: | [
No vintage, I worked in an emergent church and partnered with many other, and I've seen the fallacies first hand. I see them around me where I am now. I see them from some remarks some of the other emergent preachers on here make about their activities and services. I see them on TV, and more importantly, I hear about them from people in my community that ask real questions as to why certain things have been allowed in churches. That's not ignorance friend. Ignorance is accepting the fact that because a movement has become successful at building numbers, then that means they are also making a difference in the world and impacting and discipling souls for eternity. |
Let me ask you this Telecaster, do you REALLY think that most COG's are "making a difference in the world" and "discipling souls for eternity"?? REALLY??? If you say yes, then it shows your bias and the glare from your rose colored glasses would be blinding! In my opinion, true discipleship and making a positive impact on the world DOES NOT happen in most COG's in America. We are more concerned with "coming out from among them" and looking good in to our state officials. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1807
3/29/07 1:28 pm
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| Re: Let me weigh in here |
KariJay |
| vintagefaith77 wrote: | | Telecaster wrote: | [
No vintage, I worked in an emergent church and partnered with many other, and I've seen the fallacies first hand. I see them around me where I am now. I see them from some remarks some of the other emergent preachers on here make about their activities and services. I see them on TV, and more importantly, I hear about them from people in my community that ask real questions as to why certain things have been allowed in churches. That's not ignorance friend. Ignorance is accepting the fact that because a movement has become successful at building numbers, then that means they are also making a difference in the world and impacting and discipling souls for eternity. |
Let me ask you this Telecaster, do you REALLY think that most COG's are "making a difference in the world" and "discipling souls for eternity"?? REALLY??? If you say yes, then it shows your bias and the glare from your rose colored glasses would be blinding! In my opinion, true discipleship and making a positive impact on the world DOES NOT happen in most COG's in America. We are more concerned with "coming out from among them" and looking good in to our state officials. |
If what you say is true, Vintage...that the COG's in America are not impacting the world...I guess I might as well throw in the towel. Makes me feel REAL good about my ministry for the last 3 years. A little discouraging that I've made absolutely no impact because I'm COG.
If impact is determined by the amount of people that you have in your sanctuary, we are in a heap of trouble. The biggest churches in America house alot of unsanctified people. What kind of impact has those churches made on THOSE people? If they aren't changing, no impact is being made on them either.
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www.twitter.com/karijay
www.karilife.com
Living Life...Learning Life...Loving Life... |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4825
3/29/07 1:50 pm
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| Karijay... |
prefontaine |
| Define sanctified please...and point to it in scripture. I view sanctification as daily choice to follow Christ. Kinda the "give us this day our daily bread" thing. Choosing to put on the full armor of God everyday, not just putting it on once, and setting a date aside that I became sanctified. I sin, you sin, we all sin...does that mean we aren't sanctified? I agree that I think we make more of an impact than Vintage says, or at least I hope we do, but i can only speak for the 2 churches I have ever spent time in. But by saying that we aren't impacting lives if people aren't being sanctified is a little off in my opinion. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5103
3/29/07 1:57 pm
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