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Should a pastor take a sabatical? |
At least once a year |
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61% |
[ 8 ] |
Only when he's on the brink of burning out |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
I am a * and I don't get a sabatical -- why should a pastor? |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
Other (please explain below) |
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23% |
[ 3 ] |
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Total Votes : 13 |
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Pastoral Sabbatical...what do you think? |
Phil Hoover |
Having been "in church" 38 of my 44 years, I am firmly in FAVOR of the Senior Pastor (and other pastoral staff) taking Sabbaticals--regularly.
The most effective Pastors I've seen--in the long run, and for the long haul--have had sabbaticals every year. Sometimes it has been 6 weeks, and sometimes it has been 8 weeks.
I remember going to a "Conference on Ministry" seminar when I was a student at the Church of God Theological Seminary, and one state overseer--who's name escapes me--saying that "we can't afford to give the pastor a sabbatical..." Dr John Vining looked the Overseer in the eyes, and said, "Can you afford for that pastor to burn out? You cannot afford NOT to give the Pastor a sabbatical."
I remember telling a good friend of mine who pastors in the Midwest that he desperately needed a sabbatical. He didin't listen to me, or anyone else who told him the same thing. He's not in the ministry anymore, and he readily admits that he was burned out...
I'm convinced that "burn out" is no more HOLY than "rust out."
How do you feel about the whole "sabbatical" issue?
Phil Hoover
Chicago _________________ There is a ROCK between me and a hard place. His name is JESUS.
www.philhoover-chicago.blogspot.com |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15383 9/7/06 1:03 pm
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Nightsky4 |
Quote: | How do you feel about the whole "sabbatical" issue? |
It is very important. More churches should care about their pastor enough to grant this to him, IMO.
Nightsky |
Watermelon Assassin Posts: 640 9/7/06 1:45 pm
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ChurchAhMahGod |
I think you all should call my church, and share this idea with them. I need it bad!! |
Friendly Face Posts: 208 9/7/06 2:40 pm
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Some... |
axseluhr8 |
...should take a permanent sabbatical! |
Friendly Face Posts: 138 9/7/06 4:29 pm
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this may have been discussed here before, but: |
thejanitor |
Do you think a pastor should keep "regular" business hours at the office?? by that I mean, do you think the pastor should be in the office a certain time on certain days for members to drop by or even to make appointments to see the pastor? _________________ Just keeping my side of the street clean |
Friendly Face Posts: 418 9/8/06 12:49 pm
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sgapoboy |
yes |
Friendly Face Posts: 341 9/8/06 1:19 pm
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Absolutely... |
Phil Hoover |
thejanitor wrote: | Do you think a pastor should keep "regular" business hours at the office?? by that I mean, do you think the pastor should be in the office a certain time on certain days for members to drop by or even to make appointments to see the pastor? |
and be on time for those appointments...and expect the "member" to be on time as well.
Now "things" do happen, but those should be exceptions...not the rule.
The Pastor's time, and the "member/counselee's" time are both valuable.
Phil Hoover
Chicago _________________ There is a ROCK between me and a hard place. His name is JESUS.
www.philhoover-chicago.blogspot.com |
Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15383 9/8/06 1:22 pm
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gocart 7 1/2 |
perhaps more pastors need to care for their members and demand that the employers of their members give them a sabbaticals. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1086 9/8/06 2:13 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
I think if those members spend their lives praying and fasting and interceding and seeking God and believing God for an entire church full of people, then yeah, I think Pastors should care for their members by demanding their employers give them a sabbatical.
otherwise, I think lengthy sabbaticals are something that just pastors should be entitled to. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 9/8/06 2:51 pm
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Should be fair across the board too.... |
Jamie Noel |
Don't just allow the Senior Pastor, but take care of the entire staff. Too many churches cater to the pastor and forget those who are helping to support and carry out the vision. They work just as hard...if you don't think so...you're crazy and should do everything yourself then. I can say this because I am a senior pastor and highly value my staff. They work equally hard, and at times, harder than I do. So, I want to take care of them and prevent burnout. Losing a youth pastor every 18 months (national average) does no good for anyone. Protect them, cover them, love and mentor them, and for gosh sake's, stand up for them once and a while. Quit letting your church people tear them apart. Don't get me preachin' now! _________________ Stay Positive! |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1138 9/8/06 5:37 pm
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Ahhh sabbatical....... |
Bishop Sheikee |
any extended period of leave from one's customary work, esp. for rest, to acquire new skills or training, etc.
Hey, I'm all for sabbaticals otherwise the youth pastor would never get to preach
YP's need sabbaticals too. To learn new skills i.e. detailing the Senior Pastor's car, landscaping his yard.... the list goes on.
[/u] |
New Member Posts: 11 9/8/06 6:39 pm
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Sabbaticals... |
WonderingWanderer |
gocart 7 1/2 wrote: | perhaps more pastors need to care for their members and demand that the employers of their members give them a sabbaticals. |
Pastoring is not like other professions therefore it cannot be treated as such.
The sabbatical has most often been for educational, missions or enrichment purposes...not just for sheer rest and relaxation, it was purposeful. That is the challenge, for a pastor just to take off 6 or 8 weeks a year will do nothing in the long run. It will be a glorified vacation and when he/ she returns they will be in the same predicament as when they left. It must be purposeful, something that inputs into his/ her life in such a way that their ministry is broader than the local church.
If a pastor feels limited to one piece of geography he will find himself feeling stuck, which is the first step to burn out. However, if the pastor feels he is connected to what the Lord is doing in the body of Christ he can then lead a congregation in the broader vision of the church universal.
I am convinced that "burn-out" is completely ungodly. It is not God's will and the one who get's there is in sin. How can you get bruned out when you are truly working for the Lord? What if Jesus got burned out? It is a glorfied excuse to be lazy. Sabbatical's help a pastor to reorient himself to the things of the Lord. A seven day cruise does nothing for that...
As far as the other post regarding office hours, if the pastor is the only staff member, then he has to keep office hours. If there is other staff surrounding him then he should be much more freed up to be in the community, study, prepare and looking for new ventures for the church.
Just My two cents... from an OB on staff |
New Member Posts: 15 9/8/06 7:01 pm
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Re: Sabbaticals... |
singasong |
WonderingWanderer wrote: | gocart 7 1/2 wrote: | perhaps more pastors need to care for their members and demand that the employers of their members give them a sabbaticals. |
Pastoring is not like other professions therefore it cannot be treated as such.
The sabbatical has most often been for educational, missions or enrichment purposes...not just for sheer rest and relaxation, it was purposeful. That is the challenge, for a pastor just to take off 6 or 8 weeks a year will do nothing in the long run. It will be a glorified vacation and when he/ she returns they will be in the same predicament as when they left. It must be purposeful, something that inputs into his/ her life in such a way that their ministry is broader than the local church.
If a pastor feels limited to one piece of geography he will find himself feeling stuck, which is the first step to burn out. However, if the pastor feels he is connected to what the Lord is doing in the body of Christ he can then lead a congregation in the broader vision of the church universal.
I am convinced that "burn-out" is completely ungodly. It is not God's will and the one who get's there is in sin. How can you get bruned out when you are truly working for the Lord? What if Jesus got burned out? It is a glorfied excuse to be lazy. Sabbatical's help a pastor to reorient himself to the things of the Lord. A seven day cruise does nothing for that...
As far as the other post regarding office hours, if the pastor is the only staff member, then he has to keep office hours. If there is other staff surrounding him then he should be much more freed up to be in the community, study, prepare and looking for new ventures for the church.
Just My two cents... from an OB on staff |
So you are saying when someone is suffering from burn-out...they are in SIN..... I could not possible DISAGGREE with you any more. When you give and give.....in ANY situation....not just ministry....it is easy to burn out....and we don't look at people in the secular world as being sinners when they need a break....I have directed and taught music for the past 30 years....and a year ago... I took a break... NOT because I was in sin... I was just tired of doing it again and again.....I took that break...and now I am back....still faithful to God and the church......I hope you never experience it..... |
Friendly Face Posts: 321 9/8/06 7:49 pm
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Re: Sabbaticals... |
Bishop Sheikee |
WonderingWanderer wrote: | gocart 7 1/2 wrote: | perhaps more pastors need to care for their members and demand that the employers of their members give them a sabbaticals. |
Pastoring is not like other professions therefore it cannot be treated as such.
The sabbatical has most often been for educational, missions or enrichment purposes...not just for sheer rest and relaxation, it was purposeful. That is the challenge, for a pastor just to take off 6 or 8 weeks a year will do nothing in the long run. It will be a glorified vacation and when he/ she returns they will be in the same predicament as when they left. It must be purposeful, something that inputs into his/ her life in such a way that their ministry is broader than the local church.
If a pastor feels limited to one piece of geography he will find himself feeling stuck, which is the first step to burn out. However, if the pastor feels he is connected to what the Lord is doing in the body of Christ he can then lead a congregation in the broader vision of the church universal.
I am convinced that "burn-out" is completely ungodly. It is not God's will and the one who get's there is in sin. How can you get bruned out when you are truly working for the Lord? What if Jesus got burned out? It is a glorfied excuse to be lazy. Sabbatical's help a pastor to reorient himself to the things of the Lord. A seven day cruise does nothing for that...
As far as the other post regarding office hours, if the pastor is the only staff member, then he has to keep office hours. If there is other staff surrounding him then he should be much more freed up to be in the community, study, prepare and looking for new ventures for the church.
Just My two cents... from an OB on staff | Thank you for your 2 cents W.W. But you are just asking for it posting opinions like that!!! I guess it would blow your theological mind away if I told you that God himself took a sabbatical on the 7th day of creation. (the sabbath) And that Jesus took a 5 and a half week sabbatical. (40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness) Mi dos centavos. |
New Member Posts: 11 9/8/06 8:07 pm
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WonderingWanderer |
I am not trying to ruffle feathers here, I just think you have to look at the scriptural precepts and take your bearings from that, not from how you "feel." Resting on the sabbath day is hardly a sabbatical...and if you use it as the precept for one, it only means God rested from creating. He did not rest from tending to the earth or watching over His people or doing all the other things that make Him God, He only rested from doing one thing and that was creating. Jesus' 40 days and 40 nights could possibly be construed to be a sabbatical, but it was not "leaving because of burn-out." It was to be spiritually prepared for the enormous challenge of ministry before Him.
I am all for sabbaticals, just not for the excuse of burn-out. It's over-rated adn over-done, and yes, I still think it is sin because your focus is gone.
If you are tired of pleasing people over and over again, then maybe they are not the ones that you are to please in the first place. Maintaining Christ as the central point of our lives prevents burn-out. I am anot being super spiritual here, nor am I saying I have it all wrapped up, I just think the term "burn-out" is a cover-up for loosing focus of Christ. Changing ministerial emphasis is one thing, but the call never leaves. |
New Member Posts: 15 9/8/06 8:42 pm
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our pastor took a month sabatical |
kingdomkid |
came back and said God told him to go independent. We went from 300 one Sunday to 30 the next.
I do think pastors need time away. |
Friendly Face Posts: 122 9/9/06 2:00 pm
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WW |
Larry Wiley |
I noticed that you are an OB on staff. When and if you become the Sr. or Lead Pastor you are in for a rude awakening.
Just wait until you get hammered by a backslidden "member", who is after your blood and spreads lies, more than you can answer for.
And then come back here and tell us that this is a result of sin on the ministers part. _________________ Larry Wiley |
Acts Mod Posts: 5298 9/9/06 2:14 pm
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WonderingWanderer |
Just because I am not a Sr. Pastor does not mean I am shielded from the plight of a senior pastor or the unruliness of church members. We take advice from people all the time who are not in our exact profession. Scripture says Jesus understands our needs and struggles even though he never lost a parent, a child, never pastored a local church, never was AB over the COG, yet He understands. As pastors we give counsel all the time to people in situations we have never been in...it happens through the power of the Holy Spirit.
I understand the realities of church life. I also understand that a life that is not consisitently centered on Christ will face burnout. There is not one shred of evidence in scripture that supports burn-out being biblical or God's plan.
It may would help to define burn-out. It is defined in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary as "exhaustion of physical or emotional strength or motivation usually as a result of prolonged stress or frustration." The definition itself proves my point...no minister should ever exist in a state of prolonged stress or frustration. It is simply not biblical. Does it happen? Yes. Is it biblical? No. How would you counsel your own people to avoid prolonged stress and frustration? Spending time with Jesus certainly does the trick for me. Most spirit-filled long term pastors are successful because they have learned the skill of listening to the Lord and spending time with Him. Burn-out definitly will come when we try to please man more than the Lord. It doesn't matter if you are a Sr. Pastor, Lead Pastor, Children's Pastor , or Gorilla Pastor...finding worth in people (or apes ) will always lead to burn-out, finding it in Christ never does. |
New Member Posts: 15 9/9/06 3:36 pm
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Bullseye77 |
WonderingWanderer wrote: | Just because I am not a Sr. Pastor does not mean I am shielded from the plight of a senior pastor or the unruliness of church members. We take advice from people all the time who are not in our exact profession. Scripture says Jesus understands our needs and struggles even though he never lost a parent, a child, never pastored a local church, never was AB over the COG, yet He understands. As pastors we give counsel all the time to people in situations we have never been in...it happens through the power of the Holy Spirit.
I understand the realities of church life. I also understand that a life that is not consistently centered on Christ will face burnout. There is not one shred of evidence in scripture that supports burn-out being biblical or God's plan.
It may would help to define burn-out. It is defined in Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary as "exhaustion of physical or emotional strength or motivation usually as a result of prolonged stress or frustration." The definition itself proves my point...no minister should ever exist in a state of prolonged stress or frustration. It is simply not biblical. Does it happen? Yes. Is it biblical? No. How would you counsel your own people to avoid prolonged stress and frustration? Spending time with Jesus certainly does the trick for me. Most spirit-filled long term pastors are successful because they have learned the skill of listening to the Lord and spending time with Him. Burn-out definitely will come when we try to please man more than the Lord. It doesn't matter if you are a Sr. Pastor, Lead Pastor, Children's Pastor , or Gorilla Pastor...finding worth in people (or apes ) will always lead to burn-out, finding it in Christ never does. |
I don't know where you are working, for whom or with whom, but you will get a rude awakening when you assume the role of Sr. Pastor. Don't try to tell me that some of the good men who have suffered burn out are in sin until you've walked in their shoes. Many of them are physically exhausted and simply crash from the overload. It may not have happened if they had taken some time to rest and restore their minds. But some of them couldn't afford it. And when you are the responsible pastor, you still carry the burden of the church even thousands of miles away from it. I speak from over thirty years experience. _________________ On Target!! |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1441 9/10/06 7:47 pm
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I think it should be done on an individual basis |
roughridercog |
It depends upon the needs of the pastor and the needs of the church. If the church is agreeable to it and the pastor needs it, then I say, "Go ahead and do it."
Who knows what a brief sabbatical can do for the pastor. He can come back refreshed and and have his vision sharpened.
Not everyone can take a sabbatical, but if it's agreeable to both pastor and church, I can see only benefit from it. |
Acts Mod Posts: 25306 9/10/06 8:30 pm
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