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Er...Sex Dolls |
Yo Dude |
I saw this article on one of the news sources the other day.... Talked about these apparently, um, very realistic (e.g, anatomically correct, life-size) dolls.
It is promoted as some kind of safe sex method.
Now, they cost thousands of dollars apparently, so I'm NOT asking this to justify any purchase of mine (ha!), but I got to wondering....
Men, if looking at a woman to lust after her is adultery/sin, would you agree that that it would also be sin if you were not looking at an actual woman, but still something sensual (e.g., a drawing, a doll, etc.)?
Or could it be argued that it is no more sin than certain "sex toys" that are commonly used by adults today?
That is, is it just a sexual AID, a sex toy, perhaps? or is it the moral equivalent to adultery?
Now, based on the cost to one's testimony, I would consider this lethal. But I imagine all of us would plan on leaving the county if our LEGITMATE sexual practices were published! That is, we'd probably have a hard time preaching if the folks had read how you like to dress up like Batman and have your wife dress up like Catwoman...you get the idea.
So, maybe the testimony angle is not the best way to argue against this.
While I'm on the subject, can I be just ask a few honest questions?
I don't know about most of you, but if I found out that a woman in my church used a sex toy, I don't think I'd go ballistic or whatever. I'd probably just say something like, "Well, it's her business and it hurts no one."
That may be a liberal take, but I'm just not sure how I'd handle that.
BUT...
If I learned that a MAN was using a sex toy, well, I'd be ready to throw the book at him!
But why? Aren't they BOTH really doing the same thing: using some personal, private means to sexual gratification? Is it that much different that a man preferring his wife to dress a certain way for the bedroom--i.e., because that particular outfit turns him on?
Now, here's where it gets weird....
Let's get back to the woman.... Why is it (possibly) alright for her to use a sex toy, but NOT alright for her to, say, read a "romance" book with graphic descriptions? Or for that matter, to look at some pictures of nude men? Couldn't they be described as sex aids, as well?
AND, if a woman can do that, and we not have too difficult a time with it, so long as it is discreet, why do we get so upset at MEN looking doing similar things?
Do we have a double standard (or am I perhaps misreading how we'd react to a woman's use of these things)? And if we have a double standard, do we relax the standard for the men, or tighten the standard for the women?
Your thoughts? |
Acts-dicted Posts: 8625 4/19/06 3:37 pm
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Dude- Go Pray |
Falangie |
First, anytime you purchase anything (toys, videos etc) you are supporting the adult sex industry which exploits women and children.
That is a sin I don't care if it is a man or a woman.
Dressing in an outfit to please your spouse is not a sin your not giving your money to a sick industry.
You posted some weird questions, maybe you just need to go pray and let God give you the answers. _________________ Ragina Falangie |
New Member Posts: 11 4/19/06 3:52 pm
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Falangie... |
Yo Dude |
You offer zero logical justification why "dressing up" in the bedroom is a legitmate turn-on, but these other things are not.
Falangie, I have found that the best policy is this: When you have nothing to say, say nothing." Hmmm?
Again, the questions are:
Is there a double-standard in what we consider right and wrong for men and women?
Are sexual aids wrong? And if not, where do we draw the line? and why would one of these dolls be wrong?
I am trying to get at our core sexual values--why we allow some things, and why we disallow others, often with no clear reasoning.
Love. |
Acts-dicted Posts: 8625 4/19/06 4:09 pm
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Yo dude |
AxLoser |
R U Sincere in your questioning or R U Just stirring things up?
Because WE (the knights of the Acts table) don't cotton to "Trouble stirrers" (that last one is hard to say out loud "Stirrers" probably not even a word. (or those who stir up others) You must play by the obvious rules and then the other not so obvious rules, such as -- Don't upset the the kings and queens of Actsland by call'em as you may see them. Some of the natives are a might on the restless side _________________ Playing Nice is Good |
Newbie Posts: 7 4/19/06 4:32 pm
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Funny |
BV COG |
There's an Acts round table now, and your reference to queens seems so familiar? _________________ HOOVER, HOOVER, HOOVER!
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Acts-dicted Posts: 7914 4/19/06 4:39 pm
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It would seem to me that |
c6thplayer1 |
The dirty water is shallow and wont ruin your pants at the beginning of this walk but the water and sludge gets deeper as as one progresses farther in this journey which ultimately ruin's one pants. The sludge is also not gender biased. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 4/19/06 7:22 pm
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Yo Dude, I'll give my opinion. |
TheBeebs |
Since I am an old woman and care nothing of others' opinion of me.
1. Yes. There is a double standard. Why? Because women feel threatened when their man looks at another woman (Not me. I think it's healthy myself). Men don't care because they are for anything that will turn a woman on and get her ready for action.
2. You don't do anything about the standard except to learn how to MYOB.
What goes on between a man and a woman (or a man and his "Lovely Linda" blow-up) is nobody's business. You simply make it a "non-issue". Now if one of your elders or deacons gets busted for indecent exposure or performance of a lewd act in a XXX theater, you have a whole 'nother problem. He has taken his preference out of the privacy of his bedroom and involved the public. That's sick.
3. As to why men get upset when they find out another man uses a toy, I can't really answer except to say that the men who get upset have probably never been in a situation where they "needed a little help." Oh yeah. 98% of you will experience it at some point in your life. If a man needs a blow up because he wants to make love to a woman but for some reason cannot (like he doesn't do premarital sex), fine.....he just needs to know that if he bites her she might fly out the window.
As to "exploitation of women and children". Mainstream pornography doesn't exploit anyone. They are actors. They do it for the money. They have to offer disclaimers stating all the actors are over 18. Don't believe it? Check out the Jenna Jameson story on E TV. She likes what she does. She lied to be able to do it. She makes lots of $$$$$.
Those who actually exploit women and children are doing so illegally and their wares are sold the same way as drugs....on the black market. Child pornography rings are caught on-line almost every day....and if I was in a position to help catch them, I would help. It's disastrous and sickening.
This is an entirely different issue than watching an adult movie made by consenting adults in the privacy of your own home. I neither condemn nor condone the action, but nonetheless, it IS a separate issue.
So there you have my opinion. Now what? Someone gonna burn me at the stake?????
_________________ "Dance like there's nobody watching!" |
Supreme Commander Posts: 2558 4/19/06 8:41 pm
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The Beebs - you crack me up! (Semi-graphic post) |
RaceForTheCure |
I know there are those who will not find it amusing that I find your response very amusing and entertaining!
I think Yo's questions are valid and I don't consider myself educated enough to answer scripturally.
I condemn pornography.
I think toys are fine but don't use them with my hubby. (And whoever it was that threw me under the bus for making this statement once before - no need to run over me again - I GET IT that you don't want to know that hubby and I don't use toys but I'm exercising my right to free speech).
I think dressing up in costumes is fine if that's what makes you happy.
I don't even know what to think about a realistic woman doll - that just stirs up a whole bunch of emotions/issues/questions.
And last but not least............................................................ I've always wondered if self-gratification (masturbation) was a sin. When I mentioned to my mother that I wondered how to address this issue with my boys when they were old enough she had a look of horror on her face and said to simply tell them it would send them to hell. I didn't agree but have always wanted to ask someone.
Ok, well, that's my thoughts on all these things. _________________ I sing because I'm happy,
I sing because I'm free,
His eye is on the sparrow,
And I know He watches me
Get to know me and my wonderful family.
Rona
http://www.picasaweb.google.com/facesofwls |
Acts Mod Posts: 2135 4/19/06 9:49 pm
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Just Wondering |
Falangie |
For anyone who does not think it is a sin to use sex toys what do you think God thinks about it? I am asking specifically because you must go buy those things somewhere and to enter an adult porn store would be supporting a sick, sinful market.
Last I knew Wal-Mart didn't sell such toys, videos or dolls.
It is amazing to me that a Christian whom should always take Christ with them wherever they go thinks this is OK to any degree.
This is not the same as falling short as humans daily you must think about it, go to the store, bring this into your home and then......
Wow, I am really surprised at the lack of spiritual insight on such a serious matter.
On a lighter note, if your having to have intercourse with a doll, son you are in bad shape.
I think this thread is the weirdest one I've ever seen _________________ Ragina Falangie |
New Member Posts: 11 4/19/06 10:26 pm
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Re: The Beebs - you crack me up! (Semi-graphic post) |
Hishanmaden |
RaceForTheCure wrote: | I know there are those who will not find it amusing that I find your response very amusing and entertaining!
I think Yo's questions are valid and I don't consider myself educated enough to answer scripturally.
I condemn pornography.
I think toys are fine but don't use them with my hubby. (And whoever it was that threw me under the bus for making this statement once before - no need to run over me again - I GET IT that you don't want to know that hubby and I don't use toys but I'm exercising my right to free speech).
I think dressing up in costumes is fine if that's what makes you happy.
I don't even know what to think about a realistic woman doll - that just stirs up a whole bunch of emotions/issues/questions.
And last but not least............................................................ I've always wondered if self-gratification (masturbation) was a sin. When I mentioned to my mother that I wondered how to address this issue with my boys when they were old enough she had a look of horror on her face and said to simply tell them it would send them to hell. I didn't agree but have always wanted to ask someone.
Ok, well, that's my thoughts on all these things. |
Wow! Now that is a loaded question! I always heard that it would send you to hell as well.......they said that it was a desecration of the temple of the Lord (our physical bodies)?????? Never did understand that one. and it is not cheating on your spouse........UMMMMMMM.....What about the husbands who cannot function any longer due to illness, medications, or amputations????? or what about the women who just don't want sex any longer as happens sometimes after haveing a hysterectomy??? Lots of questions.....and I don't have any good answers. Does anyone else? I would be interested in hearing all opinions and/or thoughts on this matter. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 604 4/19/06 10:40 pm
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Falangie - this isn't the first time for this thread |
RaceForTheCure |
It's been around the block a few times. And, there's always alot of interesting responses.
What would God think of using sex toys? I can't speak for Him. However, I can tell you that you can buy these types of things on line - I've been invited to parties where they sell them (and they only allow women at these parties - no couples) but haven't ever made it to one - I also saw a very discreet booth at a Southern Women's Show in Birmingham where you could buy everything from a mop to a low fat pie filling to dance lessons to *personal items* and (again, even though I didn't go in the booth) it didn't look offensive to me from the aisle.
God invented sex for a married couple to experience pleasure and pro-create. I personally doubt if he's as uptight about what married folks do as some married folks are but that's just my thoughts. _________________ I sing because I'm happy,
I sing because I'm free,
His eye is on the sparrow,
And I know He watches me
Get to know me and my wonderful family.
Rona
http://www.picasaweb.google.com/facesofwls |
Acts Mod Posts: 2135 4/19/06 11:19 pm
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RU going to hell? |
TheBeebs |
If masturbation will send someone to hell, then God needs to do some expansion because 95% of the people I know will go for masturbating and the other 5% will go for lying about it. I don't see how in the world it desecrates the temple.As a matter of fact, it's actually good to relieve pelvic congestion in women and men.......and it actually helps men who have chronic prostatitis to "keep things drained".
Costumes??? Love 'em. Gotta red wig I'm dying to use.
As for what God thinks about toys...well, as Mark Rutland would say, "God invented sex and he was in a nifty mood that day." Boys, we're put together differently than you. Read the statistics on women who have sexual disfunction (Yes! We have that problem too!). Sometimes a woman needs a little more time and/or stimulation that what you are able to give. You know what I'm talkin' about. Now if you had that problem, you would expect your wife to do whatever it takes to "get the job done". Does she not deserve the same consideration? Don't be intimidated. It's just a mechanical object to enhance a couple's sexual experience. If you don't like it, don't do it.....and don't ask anyone else cuz it ain't your job to regulate the boudoir..and don't be naive enough to believe that just because batteries and electricity weren't invented in Bible times, they didn't have a few toys of their own. The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun.
As for where you go to buy "toys"....online,mail order catalog or some companies have even taken the Mary Kay route......home parties. Just for women.....selling lingerie, gels, creams and the dreaded "toy". You don't necessarily have to go through the "bizarre" to get to the heart of the matter. They've even got a few to get the boys revved up.
As for spiritual insight: We don't read the Bible before we have sex. We have a spiritual relationship. We have an emotional relationship. We have a physical relationship. If the first two are in sync, then whatever we do in the physical relationship is undefiled....as long as it is mutually agreeable and it involves just the two of us.
And that's just my opinion......... _________________ "Dance like there's nobody watching!" |
Supreme Commander Posts: 2558 4/19/06 11:23 pm
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Re: Er...Sex Dolls |
collinsnc |
i think i can speak for most of the guys on here.....if masterbating sends you to hell then all of us would have been there by time we turned 13
however, befoe you kick me out lemme say this....it can become an obsession - - one that the enemy will have a heyday with if your sons are not careful
use wisdom mom! |
New Member Posts: 17 4/19/06 11:23 pm
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Porn... |
Joy L Martinez |
Thanks for posting...
I think compared to some I am a liberal thinker, and Beeps, you certainly have a right to your opinion, but I can't resist responding to one of your points. (I step up on my soapbox now...ha ha)
You wrote:
As to "exploitation of women and children". Mainstream pornography doesn't exploit anyone. They are actors. They do it for the money. They have to offer disclaimers stating all the actors are over 18. Don't believe it? Check out the Jenna Jameson story on E TV. She likes what she does. She lied to be able to do it. She makes lots of $$$$$.
On these points I agree with you:
1)The participants are actors (Generally true).
2) Some enjoy what they are doing and see absolutely nothing wrong with it (This isn't always true, but certainly most do);
3) They do it for money. (yes. Some do it for other reasons as well).
But here are some negative aspects of Pornography, and why we should be concerned about it as Christians:
1) Porn addiction is rising and the statistics are already high among men. It is becoming increasingly so among women as well, with its mainstream acceptance. (Seen Girls Gone Wild advertised lately? Take a look at magazine ads and music videos).
2) A lot of it presents the message, usually of women, that they are always ready, willing and able to do whatever is desired no matter how damaging or degrading it may be to her. She just can't get enough. This sounds ideal, but we know real life isn't like that no matter how healthy a sex life one has. Real women may not always want to participate in certain acts. She has needs too.
Men (or women) who habitually consume porn may have unrealistic expectations of a partner, expect her to be on par with the actors he has been lusting after and consuming day after day. Compared to the actors, he may consider his partner unfulfilling because she isn't "on" 24-7, or willing to participate in potentially harmful behaviors.
For the addict, bodies become objects to consume, not love.
Sure, there are porn stars who enjoy their work. Also, there are people who view pornography and go about their daily lives and have a great sex life with their partner and that is that. I don't doubt it. I don't think [i]everyone who has viewed porn will become an addict, or will rape women (though like everything else, it has influence one way or the other. Besides this, porn addiction is increasing, and there IS an amazing correlation between predators who rape and the influence of porn: Ted Bundy being our poster boy for the evening).
Porn addiction has become a great social problem in our society. It is affecting individuals who are driven day by day with their addiction. It is also affecting marriages.
CASE IN POINT:
In my Human Sexuality course at Lee, we watched the true story of a MINISTER/COUNSELOR who became addicted to porn and eventually began to act on these fantasies. (this happens a lot, since the stimulus, to maintain its effect, must increase over time).
He lost everything. It affected his marriage, he of course lost his position in church and isn't counseling. Now, he speaks on the problem of porn/sex addiction. The sad thing is, this isn't an isolated incident. MANY men and women struggle with having normal relationships after becoming addicted to porn.
There is a biological aspect to this addiction just as with other addictions: it does affect brain chemistry.
Regarding the social aspects:
*I have heard some say that porn is free speech, and they don't want anyone telling them what they can and cannot see. Fair enough. I also have the same right, of course.
*Some say, "Just turn the channel; just don't look at it." Well, that is becoming increasingly difficult since it has become mainstream. It's thrust in our face whether we want it or not.
*Some say, "mind your own business." Anything that affects society and relationships IS my business. No man is an island. What individuals do behind closed doors does not always stay there. It can affect their behavior on 'the outside.'
We all know, that there are many things permitted in society, that are allowed by law, including the production of adult pornography. but this doesn't automatically make it harmless. Alcohol is legal and widely consumed, but look at the damage it does to individuals and families. Likewise, pornography can create similar problems.
I have a personal investment in this issue. I was sexually abused by a man who was heavily influenced by Pornography. I became his guinea pig, so to speak at a very young age. And the affects, though I have healed tremendously, still influence my life today. This is very personal to share but I am becoming more vocal about it purposely. I want to use my experience to help others.
Beeps, I know you wouldn't condone such a thing. I am just sharing my story because I want people to know that others can use pornography in a way that damages and destroys other people. Not all are harmless consumers. And not all are untouched by it.
So Anyway, thank you for raising your points! I enjoyed your post by the way. I do have a sense of humor and am no stick in the mud when it comes to the topic of sex.
Sincerely,
Joy Martinez |
Friendly Face Posts: 113 4/20/06 12:03 am
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Re: Er...Sex Dolls |
Land of Middle Girth |
Quote: | he just needs to know that if he bites her she might fly out the window. |
That's the funniest thing I've read in a while! _________________ "Behold... the Internet." |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1169 4/20/06 12:12 am
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Max you are killin' me! |
RaceForTheCure |
The Beebs Said:
If masturbation will send someone to hell, then God needs to do some expansion because 95% of the people I know will go for masturbating and the other 5% will go for lying about it.
My boys are grown and, to the best of my knowledge, have no obsessive tendencies in regards to masturbation. Although I'm quite sure they'd have 10 heart attacks if they knew I was discussing this aspect of their lives in this forum ........................... but that's fodder for another thread some day. Wade and I did a very well balanced job of explaining the birds and the bees and everything associated. Our boys seem to be well balanced and I thank God for that.
I'm just still wiping away the tears of laughter from Max.
And Joy - on a serious note - very well written post! _________________ I sing because I'm happy,
I sing because I'm free,
His eye is on the sparrow,
And I know He watches me
Get to know me and my wonderful family.
Rona
http://www.picasaweb.google.com/facesofwls |
Acts Mod Posts: 2135 4/20/06 12:26 am
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There's a reason your momma named you "Joy" |
TheBeebs |
Cuz you are one! Your point is well taken. Anything can become an obsession. Your post was indeed well written and if anyone can use an experience to help others, I think you would be the one.
You have endeared yourself to me this night. Be safe. Be loved.Be blessed.
TheBeebs _________________ "Dance like there's nobody watching!" |
Supreme Commander Posts: 2558 4/20/06 2:31 am
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Re: Er...Sex Dolls |
Porpoise Driven Neptune |
abc
Last edited by Porpoise Driven Neptune on 4/26/06 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-celerater Posts: 969 4/20/06 4:25 am
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Re: Er...Sex Dolls |
Land of Middle Girth |
Porpoise Driven Neptune wrote: | I guess this is logical progression. Women with silicon breasts, preachers with face lifts - why not just go the whole hog & get a plastic woman?
Remember the old saying.
Word & no Spirit - you dry up.
Spirit & no Word - you blow up.
The Spirit & the Word - you grow up.
I'd rather be growing up than blowing up any day of the week. |
But just imagine: One spirit filled individual is dancing and speaking in tongues at the same time. Everything is going peachy keen until....BANG! Pieces everywhere! All of a sudden the pastor stands up from behind the pulpit and says: "That's what happens when you have too much spirit and not enough word. The ushers are coming around with a schedule for you to read the entire bible in 1 month." One sacrifice for the common good. It could happen. But if you know it will, pass out the plastic sheets like at a Gallager performance. _________________ "Behold... the Internet." |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1169 4/20/06 4:30 am
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Re: Er...Sex Dolls |
Porpoise Driven Neptune |
abc
Last edited by Porpoise Driven Neptune on 4/26/06 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-celerater Posts: 969 4/20/06 4:46 am
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