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 Sonofasoldier said |
Cojak |
........ conceal their evil deeds simply because they are charismatic, good speakers who know how to work a crowd; some even call them anointed. If they grow the church in attendance and finances then that's all that matters ........True insight. Problem is lack of discernment, We all love a pastor that has that talent (?), the problem comes in KNOWING a talent (ability) from TRUE anointment.
I have had pastors that when we talked, I KNEW he was listening. He somehow presented the same blessed ability when speaking, you felt even in a crowd, he was speaking to PEOPLE not just rattling interesting material.
I am finding it hard to 'trust' voices and faces I DO NOT KNOW. I felt like some of the ministers on TV were nothing but snake oil salesmen and good at it. So I quit watching. My trust and finances go where I know (as best I can) they are being used to promote the Kingdom.
YES some people clothed as ministers of the gospel, would make great politicians, they can grab and hold attention on any subject, so they pick the ministry of their gospel.
Seeing my support used in strange ways in my own denomination bothers me. i have friends who brag about not being salaried by the church, but have a healthy 'expense account,' Others are in created jobs from HQ until they can find the right 'slot.' Yes it bothers me.
Just my opinion.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
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http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
7/2/24 11:02 am
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| Re: Is evil good and good evil? |
sonofasoldier |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | sonofasoldier wrote: | Unfortunately, we are living in that time where too many Christians call evil good and good evil. How can so many Christians collectively support political candidates who are such immoral reprobates and even prophesy and say they are chosen and anointed of God. With such debauchery in the two leading political parties how can one believe that God is for one and against the other? Does God choose the lesser of two evils or does He reject all evil?
Shouldn’t the church be a counter-culture movement that refuses to support political corruption in any form? If the evangelical movement want to be in politics then at least draft a righteous candidate they can stand behind and support with the largest voting block in America.
The church is the last hope America has. We are letting down our nation and our families. I have witnessed too many churches support corruprt, evil pastors and conceal their evil deeds simply because they are charismatic, good speakers who know how to work a crowd; some even call them anointed. If they grow the church in attendance and finances then that's all that matters to some. Why has that become the litmus test and will it ever change? When will we say enough is enough? When will we come out from among the world and be separate? Let judgment begin in the house of the Lord but let it also flow into our communities and hold our elected officials to a higher standard. |
Since I don't know of any non-corrupt politicians running for President - do I sit this one out? Is that your biblical understanding: Christians are shut out from affecting their country at the ballot box if there isn't a candidate that is not sinless? |
That's not my suggetion. I will not be sitting out this election but neither will I be voting for either Biden or Trump. I will write in a candidate but not sure who that is at this time. My point is that if the evangelical leaders who give such strong endorsement to such immoral candidates could they not find a candidate that is of a Christian character and speak out in support of such a person? If you endorse an immoral candidate who is without a doubt a compullsive liar then you will get a candidate that will tell you any lie needed to get your vote. I believe there are better men/women available who would serrve our country with much greater character than either of the front runners we have. As Americans, we have the right to vote for whoever we choose to support. Why should I be locked into choosing between the lesser of two evils? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 593
7/2/24 4:00 pm
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| Re: Sonofasoldier said |
sonofasoldier |
| Cojak wrote: | ........ conceal their evil deeds simply because they are charismatic, good speakers who know how to work a crowd; some even call them anointed. If they grow the church in attendance and finances then that's all that matters ........True insight. Problem is lack of discernment, We all love a pastor that has that talent (?), the problem comes in KNOWING a talent (ability) from TRUE anointment.
I have had pastors that when we talked, I KNEW he was listening. He somehow presented the same blessed ability when speaking, you felt even in a crowd, he was speaking to PEOPLE not just rattling interesting material.
I am finding it hard to 'trust' voices and faces I DO NOT KNOW. I felt like some of the ministers on TV were nothing but snake oil salesmen and good at it. So I quit watching. My trust and finances go where I know (as best I can) they are being used to promote the Kingdom.
YES some people clothed as ministers of the gospel, would make great politicians, they can grab and hold attention on any subject, so they pick the ministry of their gospel.
Seeing my support used in strange ways in my own denomination bothers me. i have friends who brag about not being salaried by the church, but have a healthy 'expense account,' Others are in created jobs from HQ until they can find the right 'slot.' Yes it bothers me.
Just my opinion. |
Yep! |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 593
7/2/24 4:04 pm
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| Re: Is evil good and good evil? |
sonofasoldier |
| Mat wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | sonofasoldier wrote: | | ...... Let judgment begin in the house of the Lord but let it also flow into our communities and hold our elected officials to a higher standard. |
This is a fantasy, we are in Rome not Israel in the time of the judges. If you believe ANY of the presidents we've had in our lifetimes were saints of God that only means you fell for their pandering. The only wise way to vote is on the candidate that gives the church the most room to thrive and practice what we believe, we don't RELY on the government being a Holy institution at any level. |
You're right, we are electing a president, not a pastor, thought some pastors make presidents look moral.
So, if you're a woman who has sex with a rich man who will be President in 20 years, what do you get? Money.
If you're a woman who has sex with a sitting president (and his brother the AG) what do you get? Dead.
Trump is safer for women then Kennedy, any of them.
Mat |
Using the logic that "I'm not voting for a pastor but a president" does not justify me voting for a person with no morality and who uses evangelicals for his own greedy desires. I will choose a person of higher character than either of the front runners we now have and write them in. Since we have the right and freedom as Americans to choose any candidate we see fit, why don't the evangelical leaders who have so much influence seek out a candidate above reproach and endorse them? The church can change the face of our government if we refuse to choose between the "lesser of two evils" and choose the highest of Christian character.
What happened when the religious leaders of Israel chose to align with the evils of Rome? There recently was a PBS special about the making of a Caesar that shows how Rome went from a democratic republic to a dictatorship. We are heading that way. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 593
7/2/24 4:32 pm
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| Re: Is evil good and good evil? |
Mat |
We did support someone based on faith and character - Jimmy Carter. However, his faith did not translate into strong leadership or stop the weakening of the nation. It did not reverse abortion on demand (Roe v Wade), or create a "moral" upswing in our national culture.
There is no central leadership in the evangelical community, and after the fallout of the Moral Majority under Fallwell there is little desire to put a "stamp-of-approval" on a candidate based on their Christian identity.
At this point, 4 months before the election, there is not such a person we all could deem worthy who is available. A year ago someone might think Robert Morris was a great leader and represented the faith well. If he had been running for president a year ago we would have known a year ago of this issues. The process of running for office is more revealing, and brutal, then any time in history.
You can write in whom ever measures up to your expectations, but it is a mute protest. I think publicly refusing to vote (and support) either party or candidate has more influence.
You're free to vote for some on the ballet in your state, to write in the name you feel measures up to the faith, or not vote at all. Its your right.
Mat
PS Many Christians complained about Ronald Reagan's lack of a strong faith, his association with Hollywood and being an "actor" as well as him being divorced and remarried. He was running against President Carter. I think it was good for the country Reagan won the election. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1994
7/2/24 5:28 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
I would love (have loved) to vote for someone other than Trump - in 2016, 2020, and 2024.
However, for all we hear about Trump lying - he delivered on his promise to only select justices who would overturn legislating from the bench - which would end the Supreme Court making laws.
He did just that.
Roe v Wade and others have all been dismantled.
I did not think it was possible - because Rep. and Dem. all kept things going down the same path. Trump disrupted that. And for that reason alone - he deserves another term.
That is how I will vote.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
7/2/24 6:25 pm
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georgiapath |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | I would love (have loved) to vote for someone other than Trump - in 2016, 2020, and 2024.
However, for all we hear about Trump lying - he delivered on his promise to only select justices who would overturn legislating from the bench - which would end the Supreme Court making laws.
He did just that.
Roe v Wade and others have all been dismantled.
I did not think it was possible - because Rep. and Dem. all kept things going down the same path. Trump disrupted that. And for that reason alone - he deserves another term.
That is how I will vote. |
Me too. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7604
7/2/24 10:34 pm
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