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 Re: I don't know that history? |
THE LOVE OF GOD |
| Mat wrote: | | sheepdogandy wrote: | | Ask Joe Chambers. |
Sheepdogandy,
I'm not COG, just have a long history with it, but I do not know the detail of what happened with Joe Chambers. Perhaps you could share how his case intersects with our discussion.
Not trying to be belligerent or confrontational, I just don't know that history. It seems in my mind to be about the same time as a General Overseer (White?) was removed and a State Overseer (perhaps in TN) got caught with a woman (was that in the State Parsonage while his wife was away?).
Mat |
It seems like COG had to go to court with the Joe Chambers situation over the deed. I think, if I remember correctly, there was a forged signature on the deed. COG won. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 383
3/2/23 2:40 am
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georgiapath |
| skinnybishop wrote: | Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that some people simply have no ethics. You can be right, and do wrong.
To me, its not the what, its the how. If someone wants to start a new church, that's fine.
It is supposed to be a new church. Don't tear down one, to build another. |
That's what I was referencing in my post. You said it better. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7587
3/2/23 8:31 am
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sheepdogandy |
Nope, no forged signature.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
3/2/23 1:53 pm
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| What people have heard ... |
Mat |
| sheepdogandy wrote: | | Nope, no forged signature. |
What people have heard, and what the actual circumstances really are often very greatly. Especially in matters of church and property, and unless you have the court transcripts, its hard to know what the facts are.
The only think I heard at the time was that a local church (some local churches) wanted to leave the Church of God (Cleveland, TN) denomination.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1981
3/3/23 1:39 pm
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sheepdogandy |
I met Bro Chambers in 1989.
Preached at his church on a few occasions.
I am his friend and a friend of his family.
Whatever disagreement folks may have with him, based on my experience, he is a man of integrity.
If the judge had not been a United Methodist, the outcome might have been entirely different.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
3/6/23 1:56 pm
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| Who he judge and lawyer is ... |
Mat |
Who the judge and lawyer is makes a difference. Here in South Carolina about 35 churches and the Charleston Dioceses (along with their campground) left the Episcopal Church. For then 10 years the Episcopal church kept taking the churches who left to court for their property and damages. Most these churches were "Anglican" long before there was a denomination called Episcopal Church here in America (like before the Revolutionary War), with many of the lower courts awarding the property to the departing churches.
Yet, when it reached the State Supreme Court, three out of 5 judges were Episcopal, so many of the local churches lost their property, the Dioceses offices were lost, as was the camp on Seabrook Island (imagen the value of that property).
The Episcopal Church is known for its "scorched earth" policies. In one case they sued a departing local church, got the property back, refused to sell it to that local church at asking price and today it is a mosque.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1981
3/6/23 4:00 pm
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| It happened to me |
4thgeneration |
| Youth pastor worked behind my back, undermined my leadership, took 60 people and went 1.5 miles down the road and launched a church. He lost his credentials with the COG as a result. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1599
3/11/23 4:47 pm
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| Re: It happened to me |
Nature Boy Florida |
| 4thgeneration wrote: | | Youth pastor worked behind my back, undermined my leadership, took 60 people and went 1.5 miles down the road and launched a church. He lost his credentials with the COG as a result. |
But what if the new church grows to over 2000 people?
Was it wrong then?
Does God blessing a church like that prove that they were right all along?
And if they are wrong, why didn't God strike it down?
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
3/12/23 12:15 pm
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| What If... |
FG Minister |
| It's the Mormon Tabernacle in Salt Lake. It grew to thousands and God hasn't shut it down. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
3/13/23 7:37 am
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| Re: It happened to me |
4thgeneration |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | 4thgeneration wrote: | | Youth pastor worked behind my back, undermined my leadership, took 60 people and went 1.5 miles down the road and launched a church. He lost his credentials with the COG as a result. |
But what if the new church grows to over 2000 people?
Was it wrong then?
Does God blessing a church like that prove that they were right all along?
And if they are wrong, why didn't God strike it down? |
No matter what happens to/in/with the church he was wrong in his approach and motives. He didn't plant a church, he stole sheep to start his own herd. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1599
3/13/23 1:55 pm
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| Re: It happened to me |
Nature Boy Florida |
| 4thgeneration wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | 4thgeneration wrote: | | Youth pastor worked behind my back, undermined my leadership, took 60 people and went 1.5 miles down the road and launched a church. He lost his credentials with the COG as a result. |
But what if the new church grows to over 2000 people?
Was it wrong then?
Does God blessing a church like that prove that they were right all along?
And if they are wrong, why didn't God strike it down? |
No matter what happens to/in/with the church he was wrong in his approach and motives. He didn't plant a church, he stole sheep to start his own herd. |
I understand. But look how successful he is now. Maybe he asked God to forgive him?
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
3/13/23 2:43 pm
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| Re: It happened to me |
MrSippi |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | 4thgeneration wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | 4thgeneration wrote: | | Youth pastor worked behind my back, undermined my leadership, took 60 people and went 1.5 miles down the road and launched a church. He lost his credentials with the COG as a result. |
But what if the new church grows to over 2000 people?
Was it wrong then?
Does God blessing a church like that prove that they were right all along?
And if they are wrong, why didn't God strike it down? |
No matter what happens to/in/with the church he was wrong in his approach and motives. He didn't plant a church, he stole sheep to start his own herd. |
I understand. But look how successful he is now. Maybe he asked God to forgive him? |
That is fine and dandy, but if he didn't make restitution with the pastor and church whom he violated with unethical actions, there is no contrition. If there is no contrition, then there is no repentance. By the way, in the words of a good friend, "Not everything that grows is healthy. Cancer grows!" |
Friendly Face
Posts: 156
3/14/23 10:38 pm
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| Re: It happened to me |
4thgeneration |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | 4thgeneration wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | 4thgeneration wrote: | | Youth pastor worked behind my back, undermined my leadership, took 60 people and went 1.5 miles down the road and launched a church. He lost his credentials with the COG as a result. |
But what if the new church grows to over 2000 people?
Was it wrong then?
Does God blessing a church like that prove that they were right all along?
And if they are wrong, why didn't God strike it down? |
No matter what happens to/in/with the church he was wrong in his approach and motives. He didn't plant a church, he stole sheep to start his own herd. |
I understand. But look how successful he is now. Maybe he asked God to forgive him? |
After Moses disobeyed, God continued with the promise and process of leading the nation to the promised land. Moses was told he would not enjoy the blessing of the promise because of his disobedience. Just one example of how God blessed the greater group, while passing judgment on the guilty party. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1599
3/21/23 11:23 am
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