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Well I’m just gonna lay it out there
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Quote:
Or have People just been reading the Bible in the westernize mindset, and not a Jewish mindset in the way it was written?


If (the NT) it was written with a Jewish mindset - why did/do most Jews reject it?


Nature Boy, Do you have anything to say about the beginning of the thread?

.


Sure. It's not a complete ghost town.

So - I'm not allowed to comment on your comments unless it's in the first post? Is that in the Torah? Have I missed out again on salvation because of it?
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11/29/22 7:51 am


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Post Isa 58:12
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Quote:
Or have People just been reading the Bible in the westernize mindset, and not a Jewish mindset in the way it was written?


If (the NT) it was written with a Jewish mindset - why did/do most Jews reject it?


Nature Boy, Do you have anything to say about the beginning of the thread?

.


Sure. It's not a complete ghost town.

So - I'm not allowed to comment on your comments unless it's in the first post? Is that in the Torah? Have I missed out again on salvation because of it?
.

Nature boy, u Can say anything you want to me, but my point was in the beginning of the thread, how we are in the last days and we are in total lawlessness, Torahlessness, the stuff we’re seeing in this nation and other nations is what G-d says in the Torah not to do…. So my point is why would Y’shua do away with the Law for Gentiles/Christians knowing that this would be the total result, lawlessness…. Matt 7:21-23. Christianity teaches, and you know this, that the Torah/Law of Moses is done away with……

Just pick any political topic, One world order, transgender nonsense, gay nonsense, climate change nonsense, vaccine nonsense, fill in the blank because whatever you put in there the Torah do not do that. Just imagine where we would be Christianity saw them selves in the Jewish contacts and taught and kept Torah like G-d said
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11/29/22 7:36 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Quote:
Or have People just been reading the Bible in the westernize mindset, and not a Jewish mindset in the way it was written?


If (the NT) it was written with a Jewish mindset - why did/do most Jews reject it?


Nature Boy, Do you have anything to say about the beginning of the thread?

.


Sure. It's not a complete ghost town.

So - I'm not allowed to comment on your comments unless it's in the first post? Is that in the Torah? Have I missed out again on salvation because of it?
.

Nature boy, u Can say anything you want to me, but my point was in the beginning of the thread, how we are in the last days and we are in total lawlessness, Torahlessness, the stuff we’re seeing in this nation and other nations is what G-d says in the Torah not to do…. So my point is why would Y’shua do away with the Law for Gentiles/Christians knowing that this would be the total result, lawlessness…. Matt 7:21-23. Christianity teaches, and you know this, that the Torah/Law of Moses is done away with……

Just pick any political topic, One world order, transgender nonsense, gay nonsense, climate change nonsense, vaccine nonsense, fill in the blank because whatever you put in there the Torah do not do that. Just imagine where we would be Christianity saw them selves in the Jewish contacts and taught and kept Torah like G-d said


When was the Torah ever followed? During Jesus time on earth?
Didn't the Pharisees follow the Torah pretty well? What was the result?
Has there ever been a time without "gay nonsense"?
You act as if these are new times. Is there anything new under the sun?
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11/30/22 8:09 am


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Post Isa 58:12 ... Mat
Just for context, last week I attended another meeting of the Christian Jewish Alliance (this is just a local group here in Charleston, SC). We meet about every two months or so to support the Jewish community and Israel, and discuss current and historic Jew-hatred (our Jewish friends like that would better than anti-Semitism) and celebrate positive relationships as well. We meet at both churches and synagogues, with various speakers.

One Jewish man, Stuart Coffman, the lawyer who led the opposition to a mosque being built at "ground zero" of the World Trade Center. He is now retired here in the Lowcountry and attends our meeting. He said in our last meeting, only 30% of those who identify as Jewish (Jews by birth/race) attended synagogue or give any attention to the Law.

Why would you want to impose on those who have experienced grace to enter back to the bondage of the the Law? Christians are not without God's Word, we do take the whole Bible, rightly divided, but we live under the covenant of the New Testament.

You wish to keep the Law, then keep all of it. Where you born a Jew, or do you just self-identified as one? My Jewish associates find those gentiles who claim to be Jewish very offensive, so you convince the Jews to keep the Law first and then take interest in what you say.

Mat
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11/30/22 10:44 am


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Post Isa 58:12
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Quote:
Or have People just been reading the Bible in the westernize mindset, and not a Jewish mindset in the way it was written?


If (the NT) it was written with a Jewish mindset - why did/do most Jews reject it?


Nature Boy, Do you have anything to say about the beginning of the thread?

.


Sure. It's not a complete ghost town.

So - I'm not allowed to comment on your comments unless it's in the first post? Is that in the Torah? Have I missed out again on salvation because of it?
.

Nature boy, u Can say anything you want to me, but my point was in the beginning of the thread, how we are in the last days and we are in total lawlessness, Torahlessness, the stuff we’re seeing in this nation and other nations is what G-d says in the Torah not to do…. So my point is why would Y’shua do away with the Law for Gentiles/Christians knowing that this would be the total result, lawlessness…. Matt 7:21-23. Christianity teaches, and you know this, that the Torah/Law of Moses is done away with……

Just pick any political topic, One world order, transgender nonsense, gay nonsense, climate change nonsense, vaccine nonsense, fill in the blank because whatever you put in there the Torah do not do that. Just imagine where we would be Christianity saw them selves in the Jewish contacts and taught and kept Torah like G-d said


When was the Torah ever followed? During Jesus time on earth?
Didn't the Pharisees follow the Torah pretty well? What was the result?
Has there ever been a time without "gay nonsense"?
You act as if these are new times. Is there anything new under the sun?


Actually the Torah has been followed in Scripture & in history, & in Y’shua’s time. Please try not 2 b 2 judging of people not keeping it as much as the Creator has asked in His Covenant, because then you have to judge yourself. Yes, This gay nonsense has been around, but not at the extent of it now would you agree? Not new times, transgender book reading in schools and libraries, all those gates of being crammed down our throat by a very small few percent of people in the world…. You’re ignoring the question in the beginning of the thread, HaShem says in His Torah that is an abomination… ur doctrine says Y’shua did away with it….. How does that make sense, how do u keep going in that thought process?

Either the N.T “letters” are wrong, or they have been interpreted wrong…..G-d says Dt 4:2; You shall not add or subtract from my Commandments, my Torah …. Y’shua died 4 our sins, our breaking of the Torah…. Y’shua said in Matt 7, ….I don’t know u, u Who work lawlessness, Torahlessness, you who keep breaking my Torah, I don’t know you. So Did He die so people can go on breaking Torah?

U Should read the top of the thread and give me a comment on that, you’re going all around it trying to make connections that have nothing to do with what I’m talking about, But in the end it will all come together Wink
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11/30/22 11:00 pm


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Post Re: Isa 58:12 ... Isa 58:12
Mat wrote:
Just for context, last week I attended another meeting of the Christian Jewish Alliance (this is just a local group here in Charleston, SC). We meet about every two months or so to support the Jewish community and Israel, and discuss current and historic Jew-hatred (our Jewish friends like that would better than anti-Semitism) and celebrate positive relationships as well. We meet at both churches and synagogues, with various speakers.

One Jewish man, Stuart Coffman, the lawyer who led the opposition to a mosque being built at "ground zero" of the World Trade Center. He is now retired here in the Lowcountry and attends our meeting. He said in our last meeting, only 30% of those who identify as Jewish (Jews by birth/race) attended synagogue or give any attention to the Law.

Why would you want to impose on those who have experienced grace to enter back to the bondage of the the Law? Christians are not without God's Word, we do take the whole Bible, rightly divided, but we live under the covenant of the New Testament.

You wish to keep the Law, then keep all of it. Where you born a Jew, or do you just self-identified as one? My Jewish associates find those gentiles who claim to be Jewish very offensive, so you convince the Jews to keep the Law first and then take interest in what you say.

Mat


Shalom Mat, I tried to look up your Christian Jewish alliance, and I couldn’t find anything about it, not that it doesn’t exist, I just couldn’t find it. But since you guys are coming together that is the picture of Jacob and Esav of last weeks Torah lesson. Jacob is a picture of Y’srael, Esav picture of Christianity, they both have to come together. Gentiles who repent & believe in Y’shua are grafted into Y’srael Rom 11:17, Ephesians 2 and so on and so on

And I wouldn’t worry about the 30% that don’t keep all Torah, cause neither do u, But believers in Y’shua are supposed to drive the DNA Jew to jealousy by looking like the better Jew Rom 11:11. And you can’t do that if you’re not keeping the Torah like G-d gave it to Y’srael, you’re doing something else. If we imitate Y’shua like He asks, Which is imitation, we will be keeping the Torah like he did, the Jews will see him through the Torah. Remember, the New (Re-Newed) Covenant is not given to the church, it’s given to Y’srael, the family your grafted into, No one else got Covenants.

I understand, the Jews for Jesus have made a mess of things, they’re not my favorite group either, by the way I live in North Carolina, maybe we should meet up LOL LOL
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11/30/22 11:27 pm


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Post A couple of points Mat
Our Christian Jewish Alliance is fairly new, at least the name is - so I doubt we have social media presences yet. One person, Earl Cox, has a title like "Ambassador" for Israel, and regularly meets with the PM of Israel. You could Google him and I think you would find something (he is a Christian, former Gentile).

As to being more Jewish than a Jew to win them to Jesus, clearly that is not the calling of Christians, as Jesus did not say go into all the world and make everybody "Jewish." My interactions with "Jews for Jesus" has been very positive, in both them showing Jesus in the Old Testament and confessing that His is the Messiah/Christ in the New Testament. As one "Jews for Jesus" leader said, "the best thing you can do for a Jew is tell him about Jesus."

Clearly Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, being both our sabbath and sacrifice, our redeemer and LORD. His Spirit dwells in us, not in a temple in Jerusalem, and we Christians are His Tabernacle.

Why Jews and want-to-be-Jews have not come to terms with the reason there has not been a temple in Jerusalem for 2000 years now, and the fact that they cannot keep the Law without it is remarkable. It makes me think they have practiced the "replacement" theology (including good works for blood sacrifices, the Levitical Priesthood, and keep feast in Jerusalem) they so denounce among Christians.

Mat
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12/4/22 8:58 am


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Post Re: A couple of points Isa 58:12
Mat wrote:
Our Christian Jewish Alliance is fairly new, at least the name is - so I doubt we have social media presences yet. One person, Earl Cox, has a title like "Ambassador" for Israel, and regularly meets with the PM of Israel. You could Google him and I think you would find something (he is a Christian, former Gentile).

As to being more Jewish than a Jew to win them to Jesus, clearly that is not the calling of Christians, as Jesus did not say go into all the world and make everybody "Jewish." My interactions with "Jews for Jesus" has been very positive, in both them showing Jesus in the Old Testament and confessing that His is the Messiah/Christ in the New Testament. As one "Jews for Jesus" leader said, "the best thing you can do for a Jew is tell him about Jesus."

Clearly Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law, being both our sabbath and sacrifice, our redeemer and LORD. His Spirit dwells in us, not in a temple in Jerusalem, and we Christians are His Tabernacle.

Why Jews and want-to-be-Jews have not come to terms with the reason there has not been a temple in Jerusalem for 2000 years now, and the fact that they cannot keep the Law without it is remarkable. It makes me think they have practiced the "replacement" theology (including good works for blood sacrifices, the Levitical Priesthood, and keep feast in Jerusalem) they so denounce among Christians.

Mat


Sorry Mat 4 the long wait. As 2 my comment on Rom 11:11 about being the better Jew only meant 2 b 4 the natural DNA Jew 2 see Christians keeping Torah & ask us, why r u doing such & such….. & then we can show them their Messiah in & through the Torah. Like Y’Shua did in Like 24:27, H e revealed Himself through Torah & Prophets, & vs 41 Their eyes were opened. He didn’t use NT because the letters weren’t written yet. Christians can’t really lead a Jewish person 2 Y’shua cuz in Christianity nothing is Jewish, nothing 2 Identify 2. They can’t even relate to the Greek name Jesus, because they’re Messiah is Jewish and his name is Y’shua, He is a Rabbi of rabbis

And that’s my problem with the Jews for Jesus, they’re not really leading them to the Messiah, they’re leading them to Christianity to lose their identification, No Torah, no Sabbaths, no Feasts, eat unclean, no circumcision, etc. btw, that’s the whole story of Chanukah coming up very soon, I encourage everyone 2 study it, Learn about not assimilating…

This never ending argument of Y'shua “fulfilling” using the one verse, Matt 5:17, is never explained fully by using the rest of the verses that contradict The opinion of verse 17. Just pointing one thing out, has heaven and earth passed away yet?

There’s a book you should look into getting called what about the sacrifices, from ffoz.org, it’ll give a better understanding of sacrifices, Because knowing what they are in Hebrew meaning it’s all throughout the NT with us us. Lol, & I can already hear everybody LOL, pick up the book

Shalom
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12/6/22 11:24 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
No one has a thought on if churches should repent and come back to G-ds Torah and teach it, since we see all the lawlessness in this nation in the world by removing it ? Do we think it’s time to start teaching G-ds Ways??
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12/12/22 6:47 pm


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Post Re: Well I’m just gonna lay it out there Link
Isa 58:12 wrote:
1st, What happened To everybody, it’s like a ghost town here now. But I am wondering what everybody here thinks about all the lawlessness in this nation & in the world at this time, maybe it’s time to re-dig, revisit keeping the Law of Moses, or the Torah of G-d, because everything in the world & in this nation we see is what G-d said in His Law/Torah not 2 do ???????

Do you think it’s time for Churches to return back to G-d’s Torah, Law of Moses, the Way of the Creator? Because it doesn’t make sense for Y’shua/Jesus to “fulfill the law” & remove it Because of a new covenant, & yet all this lawlessness we see, is because no one’s keeping G-ds Torah, Law of Moses???? & Y’shua says before he comes it will be like the days of Noah, what were those days like? lawlessness/Torahlessness, Not keeping G-d’s Torah. How do we make that work?

????


I would imagine most of the posters here are redeemed Gentiles. The law of Moses allows the nations to eat creeping things and does not require that Gentiles out in the nations abstain from wearing mixed fabrics, and various other things. However, Gentiles were not given blood to eat. Gentiles should not worship idols. Leviticus 18 indicates various sexual sins are sins also for Gentiles. Gentiles should not be compelled to be circumcised and to take upon themselves the obligation of Jews obey the law of Moses for Israel.
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12/26/22 11:20 am


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