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Cojak

Transparency.... I'm just a member.

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 **12/22/21 9:43 pm**

I cannot know my General Overseer's salary, much less the state overseer and pastor.
Do you believe in complete transparency? Is there a reason if not? Just shaking the bushes.

I have read a lot about transparency lately. I believe it is terribly needed in our religious community. My problem is my dad pastored for 50 years. I KNOW he was conservative to a fault. He despised church debt. Every church he pastored he worked to pay off the debt. He did not believe in paying interest with God's money, he felt like it was wrong. Most of his salary went back into his church, that was his family. He pastored 'limit churches' for the last 30 years of his ministry. My mother must have built 50 churches on the mission fields.
Dad held to COG beliefs that investing in stocks AND COTTON FUTURES WAS WRONG. After my dad's death a pastor came to my house and asked if I wanted to INVEST Dad's money in Church bonds. I smiled and said, "Bro you will have to get the money from Heaven's bank, that is where he invested. He left my mother $750 and a car I had given them. He was open with his salary, his clerks knew how much he returned.
When I see this list I only roll my eyes, was my dad that foolish to not save his money?
Kenneth Copeland 780 million
Pat Robertson 100 million
Benny Hinn,, 42 million
Joel Osteen 40 million
Creflo dollar 27 million
David Jeremiah 25-50 million.
Rick Warren 25 million

NO I am not a bit sorry. I am sure dad could have saved a million dollars, but that was never a part of his mind. None of his children starved, nor did we have to beg. BUT we were glad to be part of his family....
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Mat

You would think ...

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1979 **12/23/21 8:48 am**

You would think that with all these well paid religious leaders and large ministers they represent the USA would be a much more "Spiritual" nation. Some where along the line those listed, and others, would have put it all on the line for God and led the promised (prophesied) revival. Yet everyday in America spiritual darkness is overshadowing the light of the Gospel.

Men like your father put God and His Church above all else. Many big time religious leaders today are more adapt at marketing and accumulation of wealth then leading their followers in transforming their community. Yes, they are "passionate" about missions and about helping the needy in their community. Yet with the rise of the mega church and the mega minister, we have seen a diminishing of Christian influence in every aspect of our society (schools, government, business, media, etc.).

I do not lay these charges against men like your father who were so willing to sacrifice. Perhaps its us Christians who follow these "mega leaders" and who abandoned the smaller local church with its accountability and call for service, to the mega churches of an anonymity and entertainment.

I will point to the fact that its mega churches, mega ministers and denominational leaders who are at the forefront on the road to heresy and apostasy. They would can some of us haters, but justify the darkest of sins in the name of love and acceptance.

Cojak, God bless the memory of your father's memory. Others have gotten their reward here in this life, but others will prosper beyond measure in the life to come.

Mat

Preacher777

Friendly Face Posts: 434 **12/23/21 9:17 am**

Cojak, thanks for this post and the information you shared about your father. One way I encourage myself and I am sure many other pastors do the same when working very hard with little housing, salary and benefits is to think about people like your father, early church leaders and pastors overseas such as the ministers Shaun Wilson supports.

If one works hard in ministry sacrificing salary and focuses on other ministers live a high lifestyle and have great benefit packages it can be discouraging. However, when I focus on ministers like your father I leave the air conditioned church, come home to my air conditioned house, use the remote on my garage door, sit back on my recliner and realize how much better I have it than the early church pioneers and those pastors overseas. It also helps to teach about and live with an eternal perspective and a focus on rewards for believers at the judgment seat of Christ.

Cojak

Clarification, qualifier if you will

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 **12/24/21 11:41 am**

Thank you for the kind comments about dad, he was always loved until his death....

On my childhood and Dad's ministry. I KNOW that comparing today's average pastor to the average pastor in the 30s-50s is 'nearly comparing apples to oranges. This entry is not about that, it is about a dedication to souls' salvation.
Dad never had health ins. mostly it was not available and he could never have afforded it. I think that was the one thing that allowed for miracles of healing. Pastors could not afford doctors.
Retirement.... Dad had a 'cabin' on the NC campground to retire to and had no 'property taxes to pay.' THAT in itself was a life saver in 'planning for retirement (Which he did not).

So the older pastors did not face as much financial need as pastors today, I UNDERSTAND THAT!
But using Aaron's statement once about the ultra rich of the world, "How many Billions is enough?"

The calling: I never once heard my dad complain about his calling. He never once said I could have stayed in the mill and been a supervisor by now, etc. I never once, in our parsonage housing, heard my dad say a BAD word about any of his members (he considered them family)

I guess my own questions about Wealthy 'Men of God', is How much is enough? How big of a home do you need? How many local homeless shelters could you build and pay someone to tell them about Christ?
How many (MORE) missionaries could could be financed, and homes built for their retirement when they get too old to be active?
I ask you who read, do you know a missionary who returned to the USA with NO Place to live unless their children had prepared one?
Sorry it is just questions in my mind?

Do I envy those wealthy ministers? Not one dime.
But to you who have sacrificed to tell HIS story and win souls to the kingdom, GOD BLESS YOU (and he will). I know some of you have paid church bills like my dad, just to preach the Gospel. I Love you , respect you and Know you have done what He asked for you.

YES. I do understand things have changed from our founding fathers in the church's time. I KNOW one trip to the hospital can saddle a man with no insurance for the rest of his/her life. SO I know planning is important. BUT how many millions of poorer peoples' money does it take
to continue....
All this is simply personal opinions and observations.......
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Quiet Wyatt

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 12792 **12/24/21 4:40 pm**

All but the bottom two in that list preach that God wants Christians to be wealthy in this world, contrary to the express teachings of Christ our Lord, but at least they are practicing what they preach, I suppose.

Warren and Jeremiah are both highly successful authors in addition to being highly successful pastors, at least in numbers of folks they have been able to influence, motivate and organize in their ministries.

One would hope each of these teachers would obey the words of Jesus, that it is more blessed to give then to receive, and instead of hoarding up riches to themselves in the last days, would give their great wealth away.

caseyleejones

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11794 **12/24/21 8:46 pm**

FLRon

Acts-celerater Posts: 769 **12/25/21 4:50 pm**

Who can say where those dollar amounts came from? I know some have been reported in the secular media but have never read their source.
That said, I am of the opinion that they are not far off simply because of the ability to grow wealth under the current laws regarding non profit organizations.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham

Aaron Scott

The General Overseer...

Aaron Scott · Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **12/28/21 12:03 pm**

Some years ago, the salary was revealed to me. It was the same amount the COG recommends for those who pastor our largest churches (of course, churches can pay more or less, I suppose). I was deeply humbled, for I had been one that had agitated for full transparency, yet I learned that someone overseeing a church of 6+ million received what a pastor who pastored a church of 1500 or so made.

Yes, I know that they receive honorariums and other, less tangible, benefits. But still...this is, for all practical purposes, the CEO of a very large organization, and he probably makes less than any CEO out there.

At the same time, I am even more humbled by the great men of God, like Cojak's father, who lived on so little, yet did so much for the Kingdom of God. They can NEVER be repaid in earthly riches--it would be an insult to even try.

I am reminded of the last order the French leaders gave to the soldiers at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, as they sought to hold out against the Vietnamese. When told that they were going to be overrun, this is what headquarters replied:

“Well understood. You will fight to the end. It is out of the question to run up the white flag after your heroic resistance.”

Nothing can repay such sacrifice...except eternity. Thankfully, the Lord CAN and WILL repay, for He is not unrighteous to forget our labor of love. Today, many feel they need "a package" before they accept a church. Frankly, most of us have to have a secular job to pastor our churches. Indeed, if I didn't have outside employment, I not only could not contribute tithes to my church, but could not afford to buy groceries, etc. (I receive no salary, but I am given a good place to live).

I consider the previous generation--who came of age from the beginning...up through 60s to be the giants of our denomination.

Cojak

Aaron, thanks

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 **12/28/21 8:22 pm**

Thanks for a very good well written comment. I think full transparency would be a boon for out church, however I have thought many things would be good until they came into fruition and in effect. The one I remember most was the limitation placed on attorneys. I said loudly, "what could it hurt for lawyers to advertise?" There was at time they could not advertise.
NOW with millions of bill boards yelling "Let me SUE someone for you!!" I see why there was a limitation.
So I could be wrong about full transparency. One day I may know....... Or maybe not... BB reminded me (as my sons do) you don' have much time left.... LOL Smile

_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

THE LOVE OF GOD

Friendly Face Posts: 383 **12/29/21 12:45 am**

I was thinking that one GO revealed his salary at the General Assembly a few years ago. I think it was a little over $200,000 a year. I know there are perks and honoriums and books and etc but $200,000 for CEO of a large company would get a whole lot more.

Bro. Cojak, you had a precious father I am sure and he did what he felt he had to. Your parents sacrificed a lot to spread the gospel. Their reward of being faithful among many other things is OUT OF THIS WORLD. I think of WELL DONE THOU GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVENT. ENTR IN.

Aaron Scott

Cojak...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **12/29/21 7:59 am**

Cojak

Re: Cojak...

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 **12/29/21 1:39 pm**

Bro Bob

A different day...

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3945 **12/29/21 7:28 pm**

There are some things I could and would say about my own dad, but as long as he is still with us I won't. Like your dad, Cojak, the church clerks all knew much more than I did, and that was how the word got out to other ministers. Anyway. more about that down the road maybe.

What I can observe is a bit or two about my dad's dad, W.E. Hodo

When you are born in 1908 and your wife is 3 years younger and you get married on Oct 19, 1929 (5 days before the stock market crash) you get the FULL experience of the great depression.

When you are called to preach, and begin your ministry when the first two boys are 3 and 1, the State Overseer might just appoint you to pastor 2 churches about 7 miles apart.

You have no car. No horse. So you walk between Oak Grove and Zion Ridge near Clanton AL. Sometimes you are carrying both boys, the youngest in your arms, the oldest on your back with his feet in your pockets.

It is easy to remember the salary from the first year, $52. A dollar a week. Even then you couldn't feed a family of four on that so of course others gave food from their gardens.

And that is how it began. Well, actually it began before all that as he was the Clerk at Buhl near Tuscaloosa when it was still deeded to "THE HOLINESS CHURCH".

........

I am sitting here typing this with tears of thanks filling my eyes for the blessing I received when the heavenly Father assigned my spirit to this family.

BB

Cojak

Re: A different day...

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24277 **12/29/21 9:26 pm**