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JimmieDavis |
| Pastors should be compensated based on their commitment, fruit, kingdom effectiveness and growth. Anyone can get degrees and their church never grow. The church running 30 people shouldn't be obliged to commensurately compensate their seminary trained superstar. He has to produce in spite of it because of his education. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 219
2/23/17 9:07 pm
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Link |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | What about in your secular vocations, Link/NB, are folk compensated per their level of academic training? Or, is a particular job required to have a certain degree level? |
So should the church follow the secular world? Ministry isn't the same thing as a secular vocation. That's one of the problems these days, treating ministry like a secular vocation, and thinking that a degree qualifies a man for ministry. Some denominations are like that. The ordained ministers went to divinity school. They may be too immature to meet the qualifications for elder/bishop. On the other hand, there are Pentecostals and Charismatics who think someone is qualified if he is able to convince people that he is called or anointed, or both, even if he doesn't live up to the Biblical qualifications.
There are fields where you don't get paid more for having a degree. If you are a plumber and you get a PhD in mechanical engineering, the actual plumbing probably pays the same. Being a mechanical engineer might help a plumber very little with his work, but probably not that much if all he was doing was the actually installation or repair of plumbing.
If salary were aligned with education level, would the COG have to give all the biggest church pastorates to the ones with doctorates. I'm assuming you'd say the school would have to be accredited. What about a pastor with a degree in astrophysics? How much should he be paid?
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
2/24/17 2:23 am
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caveator |
| You are interviewing two pastoral candidates. One only has a high school diploma, but has 15 years of experience as a pastor. His church has grown from 50 to 500. The second candidate has an MDiv. He has pastored two churches. He was at his first church for 3 years. The attendance was 80 when he went there and 80 when he left. He was at his second church for 10 years. The attendance there was 120 when he went and 100 now. The high school graduate is a great communicator and is very relational. The MDiv has given the second pastor a great understanding of the scriptures and church systems. However, most of the congregation has a difficult time relating to his communication style and choice of vocabulary. Which candidate would you want as the pastor of your church? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 586
2/24/17 8:50 am
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bonnie knox |
Nothing in your scenario mentions the personal character or integrity of the two candidates. It's high time the church is led by people with personal integrity rather than personal charisma. So, I say there is not enough info to select between these two candidates.
| caveator wrote: | | You are interviewing two pastoral candidates. One only has a high school diploma, but has 15 years of experience as a pastor. His church has grown from 50 to 500. The second candidate has an MDiv. He has pastored two churches. He was at his first church for 3 years. The attendance was 80 when he went there and 80 when he left. He was at his second church for 10 years. The attendance there was 120 when he went and 100 now. The high school graduate is a great communicator and is very relational. The MDiv has given the second pastor a great understanding of the scriptures and church systems. However, most of the congregation has a difficult time relating to his communication style and choice of vocabulary. Which candidate would you want as the pastor of your church? |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
2/24/17 9:18 am
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diakoneo |
Yep!
| bonnie knox wrote: | Nothing in your scenario mentions the personal character or integrity of the two candidates. It's high time the church is led by people with personal integrity rather than personal charisma. So, I say there is not enough info to select between these two candidates.
| caveator wrote: | | You are interviewing two pastoral candidates. One only has a high school diploma, but has 15 years of experience as a pastor. His church has grown from 50 to 500. The second candidate has an MDiv. He has pastored two churches. He was at his first church for 3 years. The attendance was 80 when he went there and 80 when he left. He was at his second church for 10 years. The attendance there was 120 when he went and 100 now. The high school graduate is a great communicator and is very relational. The MDiv has given the second pastor a great understanding of the scriptures and church systems. However, most of the congregation has a difficult time relating to his communication style and choice of vocabulary. Which candidate would you want as the pastor of your church? |
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Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
2/24/17 9:23 am
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| And neither does the topic of this thread |
Ernie Long |
This thread isn't about the character or integrity of a person, it's about how much a person should be paid for their ability to find information, put it together, and call it a sermon.
| bonnie knox wrote: | Nothing in your scenario mentions the personal character or integrity of the two candidates. It's high time the church is led by people with personal integrity rather than personal charisma. So, I say there is not enough info to select between these two candidates.
| caveator wrote: | | You are interviewing two pastoral candidates. One only has a high school diploma, but has 15 years of experience as a pastor. His church has grown from 50 to 500. The second candidate has an MDiv. He has pastored two churches. He was at his first church for 3 years. The attendance was 80 when he went there and 80 when he left. He was at his second church for 10 years. The attendance there was 120 when he went and 100 now. The high school graduate is a great communicator and is very relational. The MDiv has given the second pastor a great understanding of the scriptures and church systems. However, most of the congregation has a difficult time relating to his communication style and choice of vocabulary. Which candidate would you want as the pastor of your church? |
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Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1050
2/24/17 10:05 am
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| Re: And neither does the topic of this thread |
diakoneo |
| Ernie Long wrote: | This thread isn't about the character or integrity of a person, it's about how much a person should be paid for their ability to find information, put it together, and call it a sermon.
| bonnie knox wrote: | Nothing in your scenario mentions the personal character or integrity of the two candidates. It's high time the church is led by people with personal integrity rather than personal charisma. So, I say there is not enough info to select between these two candidates.
| caveator wrote: | | You are interviewing two pastoral candidates. One only has a high school diploma, but has 15 years of experience as a pastor. His church has grown from 50 to 500. The second candidate has an MDiv. He has pastored two churches. He was at his first church for 3 years. The attendance was 80 when he went there and 80 when he left. He was at his second church for 10 years. The attendance there was 120 when he went and 100 now. The high school graduate is a great communicator and is very relational. The MDiv has given the second pastor a great understanding of the scriptures and church systems. However, most of the congregation has a difficult time relating to his communication style and choice of vocabulary. Which candidate would you want as the pastor of your church? |
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And I think that was a valid point Bonnie made. "What about integrity?" We should not discount that while we are looking at degrees and charisma
Someone also made the point that biblical qualifications had nothing to do with degrees or charisma. It was about integrity. Have they proven themselves to have integrity regarding self control etc.? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
2/24/17 10:12 am
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Link |
The Bible doesn't say anything about pastors having 'salaries' either. 'Double honor' for elders could have come in the way of offerings or other means besides set salaries.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
2/24/17 12:13 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
I like the integrity thing.
If a pastor has a moral failing - then his salary drops to $15 per week.
At least that way - these wolves that prey on women wouldn't want to be restored back to their pastorate so quickly. 
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
2/24/17 1:33 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | It's high time the church is led by people with personal integrity rather than personal charisma. |
An a church leader with integrity aint gonna be usin/claimin/toutin no degree mill docterate. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/24/17 10:08 pm
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bonnie knox |
Furthermore, the integrity ought to be "vigorously pursued." 
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | It's high time the church is led by people with personal integrity rather than personal charisma. |
An a church leader with integrity aint gonna be usin/claimin/toutin no degree mill docterate. |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
2/24/17 10:13 pm
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caveator |
| bonnie knox wrote: | Nothing in your scenario mentions the personal character or integrity of the two candidates. It's high time the church is led by people with personal integrity rather than personal charisma. So, I say there is not enough info to select between these two candidates.
| caveator wrote: | | You are interviewing two pastoral candidates. One only has a high school diploma, but has 15 years of experience as a pastor. His church has grown from 50 to 500. The second candidate has an MDiv. He has pastored two churches. He was at his first church for 3 years. The attendance was 80 when he went there and 80 when he left. He was at his second church for 10 years. The attendance there was 120 when he went and 100 now. The high school graduate is a great communicator and is very relational. The MDiv has given the second pastor a great understanding of the scriptures and church systems. However, most of the congregation has a difficult time relating to his communication style and choice of vocabulary. Which candidate would you want as the pastor of your church? |
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Ok... both candidates have impeccable integrity and character. So, back to my question. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 586
2/24/17 10:26 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
I would not base his salary on his education because college or theological schools don't teach you how to pastor ...people teach you how to pastor 
I worked for a combined 9 years with my friend Pastor Terry Bates & he never completed a college degree but he knows how to seek God for every single sermon he preaches & I never once in those 9 years came away feeling like he messed up or that the message was dry. We had a lot of good ole fashion Holy Ghost gully washers & that kind of anointing can't be taught or bought.
In fact a university bestowed upon him an honorary doctorate a few years ago & I've never heard him once use the title or describe it in any publication where he has written a few books.
The church he serves at has grown tremendously in Oklahoma City & I'm sure nobody is worried about his lack of advanced collegiate education.
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"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/25/17 9:05 pm
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Cojak |
I made an attempt three or four times to further my education. But life got in the way and I needed to make a living, so I dropped out. BUT during that time I had several professors. I am assuming they had approximately the same educational level and salary (assumption on my part). But the point is if a student is there to learn, he can tell a good teacher from one who CANNOT. In other words all these men and women were paid a salary commensurate with their education. Some were just filling a position, and other were DOING THE JOB.
So Ministers/Pastors are no different. Some can and some can't and their history proves it. The Pastor's who CAN attract souls to the kingdom. That can be proven by examples given here, especially Dean's comment above.
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Last edited by Cojak on 2/26/17 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
2/25/17 9:25 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | In fact a university bestowed upon [Tommy Batns an honorary doctorate a few years ago & I've never heard him once use the title or describe it in any publication where he has written a few books.
The church he serves at has grown tremendously in Oklahoma City & I'm sure nobody is worried about his lack of advanced collegiate education. |
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Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/25/17 11:01 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | In fact a university bestowed upon [Tommy Batns an honorary doctorate a few years ago & I've never heard him once use the title or describe it in any publication where he has written a few books.
The church he serves at has grown tremendously in Oklahoma City & I'm sure nobody is worried about his lack of advanced collegiate education. |
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You changed the name on there Old One 
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/25/17 11:45 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | In fact a university bestowed upon [Tommy Batns an honorary doctorate a few years ago & I've never heard him once use the title or describe it in any publication where he has written a few books.
The church he serves at has grown tremendously in Oklahoma City & I'm sure nobody is worried about his lack of advanced collegiate education. |
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You changed the name on there Old One |
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Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/26/17 1:57 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Valid points from a number of ya, but at the end a the day, there is both 10th Grade graduates and fellers with earned docterates that:
1. Pastor just fillin a position
2. Have no heart for ministry
3. Pastor a church for a year an the attendance goes down
4. Pastor at one place while all the while lookin for a promotion
Then, they is also in both camps fellers that:
1. Pastor an love the people
2. Pastor an the attendance increases
3. Pastor while content, not looking for a promotion
4. Love God an gonna serve him no matter what
5. Couldn't preach their way out of a wet paper bag
AGAIN: The Question:
If a church can afford it, should a feller who has disciplined hisself for 4 years to earn a undergrad degree an then another 3 year to earn a MDiv, should the church consider compensating this person for their level of education. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/26/17 2:07 pm
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bonnie knox |
Ole Timer, ya sound a little flusterated, like maybe we hadn't really answered ya question.
And I'll tell ya tha truth, it's kindly hard for me ta say. I've heered some ignorant preachers over the years and wish they woulda got theirselves some education, but not all education comes with a formal degree.
And I'm at the point in my life that I'm kindly disappointed in a lot of the ways we've made a system of "doing church." |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
2/26/17 2:17 pm
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Dr.Acts |
| caveator wrote: | | You are interviewing two pastoral candidates. One only has a high school diploma, but has 15 years of experience as a pastor. His church has grown from 50 to 500. The second candidate has an MDiv. He has pastored two churches. He was at his first church for 3 years. The attendance was 80 when he went there and 80 when he left. He was at his second church for 10 years. The attendance there was 120 when he went and 100 now. The high school graduate is a great communicator and is very relational. The MDiv has given the second pastor a great understanding of the scriptures and church systems. However, most of the congregation has a difficult time relating to his communication style and choice of vocabulary. Which candidate would you want as the pastor of your church? |
A learned man will always lean toward the learned man...
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Imperium centratus delenda est
Just the facts
Dr. J.D. Acts |
Friendly Face
Posts: 104
4/20/20 10:03 am
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