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 No more "gun-free" zones!! (L) |
Eddie Robbins |
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UncleJD |
| Freedom! |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
6/14/16 8:42 am
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Cojak |
Much will be said pro and con, but you cannot escape the thought that if one (authorized) handgun carried by a proficient shooter had been close, less lives would have been lost. 
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
6/14/16 8:53 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Did anyone fire back?
I heard there was a police officer there - but was he outside/inside?
I don't know yet.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
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Posts: 16646
6/14/16 9:01 am
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UncleJD |
| its a night-club serving more alcohol than food (I think the ratio is over 50% in most states), you can't carry in those places. But, they should absolutely have had more armed security, but probably chose not too for money and to not frighten their clients. That is why this guy cased it out on at least 12 occasions, to find its weaknesses and exploit them. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
6/14/16 10:27 am
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georgiapath |
| The owner should be charged for having all the exits padlocked except the main one, that is against the law. She probably wanted to save money on extra security. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7604
6/14/16 10:48 am
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UncleJD |
| georgiapath wrote: | | The owner should be charged for having all the exits padlocked except the main one, that is against the law. She probably wanted to save money on extra security. |
wow, I hadn't heard that. That's probably exactly why he chose that place! But common sense is too easy. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
6/14/16 10:55 am
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Eddie Robbins |
| What if when the FBI checked this guy out, they would have placed him on a watch list that would have warned the authorities when he purchased the gun? He bought it legally but what if the FBI had known he bought the gun and began their surveillance? |
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6/14/16 11:19 am
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UncleJD |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | What if when the FBI checked this guy out, they would have placed him on a watch list that would have warned the authorities when he purchased the gun? He bought it legally but what if the FBI had known he bought the gun and began their surveillance? |
He was on their watch lists. Its a sticky situation since most conservatives (like me) don't believe in a random "watch list" blocking our rights. How would such a list be maintained without political interference? You and I would likely end up on a list because of our affiliation with "bigotted" churches. Plenty of politicians talk about banning purchase if you're on a list, but they never tell us how these lists are populated. |
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Posts: 3147
6/14/16 11:23 am
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georgiapath |
| UncleJD wrote: | | georgiapath wrote: | | The owner should be charged for having all the exits padlocked except the main one, that is against the law. She probably wanted to save money on extra security. |
wow, I hadn't heard that. That's probably exactly why he chose that place! But common sense is too easy. |
She is on the city council, guess she thought she could get away with doing business that way. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7604
6/14/16 1:35 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Eddie Robbins wrote: | | What if when the FBI checked this guy out, they would have placed him on a watch list that would have warned the authorities when he purchased the gun? He bought it legally but what if the FBI had known he bought the gun and began their surveillance? |
He was on their watch lists. Its a sticky situation since most conservatives (like me) don't believe in a random "watch list" blocking our rights. How would such a list be maintained without political interference? You and I would likely end up on a list because of our affiliation with "bigotted" churches. Plenty of politicians talk about banning purchase if you're on a list, but they never tell us how these lists are populated. |
If I am on a list for whatever reason, I am not doing anything wrong. This guy was on a list and the FBI should have been notified when he bought the gun. |
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6/14/16 2:25 pm
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UncleJD |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: |
If I am on a list for whatever reason, I am not doing anything wrong. This guy was on a list and the FBI should have been notified when he bought the gun. |
That is not currently the law, your gun purchase is not reported to anyone. Its a one-way check. The FFL (dealer) calls into a clearinghous/database, gives the identifying info, and the agreed on criteria is checked. The fact that you bought a gun is not supposed to be sent to anyone at all (whether it is or not in fact is another discussion). The trace of a gun sale goes backwards from the gun serial used in a crime, they contact the manufacturer, and the manufacturer gives them the name of the dealer who sold it, the dealer produces the record of the sale and to whom. Today that criteria is criminal background, certain mental issues, restraining orders, but not whether you are on an FBI watch list. That is what the democrats and some Republicans want, and it makes some sense, but the arbitrary nature of how people get on these lists is what is currently in question. There are many in the government bureaus that want conservatives on the list just because they are conservative (see the IRS scandal if you don't think it happens). As to what this guy was watched for, the second time it was simply knowing a guy who went overseas and blew himself up. For me, that is enough to get him on a list, but on the otherhand, what if you know someone who happened to commit a murder? Should you, by association, be on a list? I don't think so, but somebody might. IF (caps intended), the FBI would come up with definitive standards for being on a "no-gun-buying" list, that could not be abused, then we could probably all agree. They won't do it though, they want it to be arbitrary so they can use it as a back-door ban. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
6/14/16 4:21 pm
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| Watch list |
4thgeneration |
He is Muslim.
He travelled multiple times to Muslim countries that support terrorist groups.
He had connections with known terrorists, some of whom have already carried out terrorist actions.
He talked to others such as coworkers and friends openly about hate, violence, and killing as a reasonable response.
He purchased (legally) assault firearms and ammunition.
He told some of his plans to either attack the night club or a Disney park.
And the FBI had cleared him from the list as someone that needed to be watched....
I was in the airport last week and watched a 75+ year old little man be body searched by a TSA agent because he was "randomly selected by the machine." It is a joke. Not one terrorist has been caught by TSA because they are not typically 75 year old caucasian men. But they met the quota that day for hand searches! Job well done!
TSA is hand searching old men while the FBI is clearing people who have red flags popping up all over. Something is way out of order here... Imo
But they say the solution is tighter gun laws and looser immigration policies... In the south we say, "Bless their hearts!" |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1607
6/14/16 4:36 pm
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UncleJD |
| I guess my point is this, as far as we know so far, he bought his guns legally. He went through the background checks that everyone is worried about people skirting. If he'd failed his background check, there is zero chance that he would have given up. Someone would have got the guns to him, just like they did the San Bernadino nut. I guarantee you the only people in the world worried about gun control are liberals and law abiding citizens. The muzzies are not worried about it one bit. The idea that ANY terrorist's conversation entails a word about gun-laws, or background checks is hilarious. |
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Posts: 3147
6/14/16 4:49 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| I am saying that if someone is on a list and they purchase a gun or even products that can be used to make a bomb, it should send a message to the FBI of their purchase so they can run surveillance on him/her. That should be the law, IMHO. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
6/14/16 9:36 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
Saw this on Twitter just now:
If gun control worked, Chicago would be Mayberry! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
6/14/16 9:49 pm
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georgiapath |
Disney World reported him to the FBI a few months ago, they thought he and his wife were casing the place
Like him or not, Donald Trump is right about Obama and Hillary. If she gets in office, we are in for 8 more year of an incompetent administration. All they know how to do is scream more gun control, you will never stop crazy evil people from getting guns. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7604
6/15/16 7:33 am
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Eddie Robbins |
| Trump is just a bag of wind spewing what he thinks people want to hear. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
6/15/16 8:20 am
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skinnybishop |
I still wonder how he got in the bar...with a AR-15.....without being noticed. Those weapons are not exactly easy to conceal. Strange situation.
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Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1055
6/15/16 3:12 pm
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bonnie knox |
| skinnybishop wrote: | | I still wonder how he got in the bar...with a AR-15.....without being noticed. Those weapons are not exactly easy to conceal. Strange situation. |
It was a Sig Sauer MCX and it was noticed, but...
"Law enforcement officers failed to get any effective hits on the terrorist outside of Pulse before the terrorist made it inside. Officer Adam Gruler was working security and engaged the terrorist with his handgun, but failed to make any effective hits. Lt. Scott Smith and Sgt. Jeffrey Backhaus, both also SWAT officers, were in the first patrol unit to arrive on-scene. They also failed to make effective hits.
The terrorist was then able to enter the club."
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/06/14/fact-check-ar-15-wasnt-used-orlando-wouldnt-mattered-anyway/ |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
6/15/16 4:23 pm
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