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 Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!! |
Old Time Country Preacher |
More than a few woffies cite the seamless robe of Jesus, that the soldiers cast lots for, was a sign that Jesus was rich. They say he had to be rich to wear such a robe. This is absolutely false and ludicrous.
Chrysostom wrote that the detail is added to shew “the poorness of the Lord’s garments, and that in dress, as in all other things, He followed a simple fashion.”
Westcott, B. F., & Westcott, A. (Eds.). (1908). The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and notes on the Authorized version (p. 275). London: J. Murray.
This type of garment could be made by an ordinary weaver, so it need not have been expensive.
Newman, B. M., & Nida, E. A. (1993). A handbook on the Gospel of John (p. 587). New York: United Bible Societies. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/20/16 10:28 pm
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diakoneo |
I had a conversation with some church people the other day with this nonsense. Someone on TBN (John Hagee) was preaching along those lines.
This stuff amazes me. I did set them straight on it though. Let them know it was a common garment.
The idea they got was that it was so valuable that the soldiers gambled for it. Of course it was a seamless piece and that was the reason. Clothes in general were much more valuable to these folks. They didn't have a closet full they didn't wear like we do.  |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
3/20/16 10:35 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| diakoneo wrote: | | I had a conversation with some church people the other day with this nonsense. Someone on TBN (John Hagee) was preaching along those lines. |
Yep, Hagee, John Avanzini, an a host a others preach it. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/20/16 10:39 pm
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bonnie knox |
Folks, we women were really coming up in the world when they came out with seamless pantyhose. The confusion about the robe being special is understandable.
I'm amazed if I see a can for food that doesn't have a little seam down one side. I'm trying to imagine exactly how one would go about weaving a robe with no seam. |
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Posts: 14803
3/20/16 11:06 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | I'm trying to imagine exactly how one would go about weaving a robe with no seam. |
This type of garment could be made by an ordinary weaver, so it need not have been expensive.
Newman, B. M., & Nida, E. A. (1993). A handbook on the Gospel of John (p. 587). New York: United Bible Societies. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/20/16 11:49 pm
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bonnie knox |
Ole Timer, I read it the first time, and I am not disputing the cost of the robe. Just as a person who has in prior times actually constructed garments myself and who has seen weaving demonstrations in person, I do have a little intellectual curiosity about how one would go about it.
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | I'm trying to imagine exactly how one would go about weaving a robe with no seam. |
This type of garment could be made by an ordinary weaver, so it need not have been expensive.
Newman, B. M., & Nida, E. A. (1993). A handbook on the Gospel of John (p. 587). New York: United Bible Societies. |
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Posts: 14803
3/21/16 7:12 am
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DrDuck |
I do not preach that Jesus was necessarily rich. But I cannot be certain enough to insist that he was impoverished.
I do not offer this as any kind of defense of the WOF teachers, but just something I have wondered about from time to time. I read from the Bible that he was visited by wise men who regarded him as a king. I also find that they brought him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. If they thought him a king and brought him kingly gifts, seems to me they would have delivered a "king's ransom" in the value presented. I am not sure how much that is, but I am willing to speculate that it was a great deal. Perhaps enough to insure that he would never qualify as genuinely poor. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 755
3/21/16 8:42 am
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Cojak |
| bonnie knox wrote: | Folks, we women were really coming up in the world when they came out with seamless pantyhose. The confusion about the robe being special is understandable.
I'm amazed if I see a can for food that doesn't have a little seam down one side. I'm trying to imagine exactly how one would go about weaving a robe with no seam. |
The circular knit/weave machines have been around for years, I HEAR. The weaving is done vertically rather than flat. I would imagine the robe would have been a little more expensive than the ones with a seam. Maybe it ws given by an admirer or follower.
Anyway, I think many of the robes were just one piece of cloth Wrapped around the body and would have been seamless. However the idea of seamless must have had SOME significance. 
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jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24285
3/21/16 9:03 am
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diakoneo |
| DrDuck wrote: | I do not preach that Jesus was necessarily rich. But I cannot be certain enough to insist that he was impoverished.
I do not offer this as any kind of defense of the WOF teachers, but just something I have wondered about from time to time. I read from the Bible that he was visited by wise men who regarded him as a king. I also find that they brought him gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. If they thought him a king and brought him kingly gifts, seems to me they would have delivered a "king's ransom" in the value presented. I am not sure how much that is, but I am willing to speculate that it was a great deal. Perhaps enough to insure that he would never qualify as genuinely poor. |
I do not think he was impoverished either. He was a carpenter by trade as His earthly father was. Being the Son of God and a carpenter why would we think He would be impoverished? He said, "the poor you will have with you always, but me..." |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
3/21/16 9:26 am
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Cojak |
One thing for sure, he did not own or live in a mansion, so I doubt if a seamless robe indicated wealth.
He dd not live at #1 East Main St, Jerusalem. No prestigious address, not even a bed much less a large home. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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3/21/16 9:40 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Cojak wrote: | | No prestigious address, not even a bed much less a large home. |
You just disputed what John Hagee preaches on this one, Cojak. But you, my brother, are 100% correct................not John Hagee. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/21/16 10:25 am
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bonnie knox |
Thanks, Cojak. I'm still getting hung up on the SLEEVES. But maybe it didn't have sleeves. Anyway, interesting.
| Cojak wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | Folks, we women were really coming up in the world when they came out with seamless pantyhose. The confusion about the robe being special is understandable.
I'm amazed if I see a can for food that doesn't have a little seam down one side. I'm trying to imagine exactly how one would go about weaving a robe with no seam. |
The circular knit/weave machines have been around for years, I HEAR. The weaving is done vertically rather than flat. I would imagine the robe would have been a little more expensive than the ones with a seam. Maybe it ws given by an admirer or follower.
Anyway, I think many of the robes were just one piece of cloth Wrapped around the body and would have been seamless. However the idea of seamless must have had SOME significance. |
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Posts: 14803
3/21/16 10:44 am
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| Re: Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!! |
LonghornFan |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | More than a few woffies cite the seamless robe of Jesus, that the soldiers cast lots for, was a sign that Jesus was rich. They say he had to be rich to wear such a robe. This is absolutely false and ludicrous.
Chrysostom wrote that the detail is added to shew “the poorness of the Lord’s garments, and that in dress, as in all other things, He followed a simple fashion.”
Westcott, B. F., & Westcott, A. (Eds.). (1908). The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and notes on the Authorized version (p. 275). London: J. Murray.
This type of garment could be made by an ordinary weaver, so it need not have been expensive.
Newman, B. M., & Nida, E. A. (1993). A handbook on the Gospel of John (p. 587). New York: United Bible Societies. |
I am not agreeing with the comments that you are attempting to dispute. However, what makes the commentators that you quote more credible than John Hagee? Why should their assessment have more validity than the opposing opinion? There is no exegesis of the scripture, just one persons interpretive opinion verses another's opinion. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 120
3/21/16 12:58 pm
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| Not common... |
renewal |
To understand some of these things you must go into the world in which Jesus lived..
For example..A Rabbi must do and live up to a certain standard..One of those standards was dress..
A Rabbi could not have clots of dirt on their shoes..If they did it was a disgrace..
A Rabbi warning dirty clothes was worthy of death..
A Rabbi must eat and drink according to their means..
A Rabbi Must lodge and dress above them..
A robe like Jesus wore was only worn by very rich people because it was weaved in a certain way. The value was expressed at the cross when the solders wanted to own it..If it was common they never would have cast lots to own it..Why would they?
There are other rules for Rabbi's during the time of Jesus..
Look them up in Shabbat 120a Or Edersheim, Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah 427-429
Those are the facts...
Have you ever wondered why things were done in certain ways? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
3/21/16 1:02 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | The value was expressed at the cross when the solders wanted to own it..If it was common they never would have cast lots to own it..Why would they? |
If you just executed a controversial person, you might want a souvenir. There could be other reasons besides intrinsic worth of the item. |
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Posts: 14803
3/21/16 1:20 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Another point to make is that even if Jesus had been gifted a particularly nice robe, it doesn't follow that he was rich. |
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Posts: 14803
3/21/16 1:21 pm
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| Bonnie.. |
renewal |
You are missing the point...
We are talking about the custom of the day..Understand that fact..
The soldiers cared less about him, it was just another days work..
They were not on Star Search..
The custom ruled the day in those times..
I am not saying he was rich, I am saying the custom of the day ruled..
And it did..
When a person understands these facts a whole new understanding opens up.
The culture mattered... |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
3/21/16 1:34 pm
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Da Sheik |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Folks, we women were really coming up in the world when they came out with seamless pantyhose. |
Bonnie, I have no idea what seamless pantyhose are but I'm glad that women gained some footing 
Regarding Jesus's wealth, let's apply the same logic when citing other examples. We also know that Jesus gave Peter instructions to go fishing so that they could pay the temple tax. When it came time to feed the five thousand men (and countless women and children ) Philip was perplexed at how they would ever acquire enough wages to feed the multitudes. I could go on, but I won't. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
3/21/16 3:40 pm
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bonnie knox |
2 Corinthians 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
3/21/16 4:05 pm
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bonnie knox |
renewal, tell me this, did the custom of the day dictate that the soldiers only took expensive garments or did they take any and all garments?
| Quote: | We are talking about the custom of the day..Understand that fact..
The soldiers cared less about him, it was just another days work..
They were not on Star Search..
The custom ruled the day in those times.. |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
3/21/16 4:08 pm
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