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bonnie knox |
Yep, lies and statistics... ...and surveys that rely on self reporting or self assessment.
It's like most people, if surveyed, would say they are better than average drivers.
Some of those Protestants taking the survey might not have known what "civilian" meant, lol, what with the state of public education in this country. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
12/11/15 8:34 am
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Nick Park |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | However, Nick has taken the same shot at me. Knowing the Nick has equated JD with NBF only makes it worse.  . |
No, I don't believe I have.
I responded directly to Jimmie Davis because, instead of engaging with what I said, he just (falsely) dismissed me as a liberal. My post made it very clear I was addressing JD and nobody else.
The issue at hand, whether a majority of American Muslims support terror or not, is neither conservative or liberal. It is to do with how we respond to terror.
Terrorists operate with small cells, and only need very small numbers of people to cause huge disruption. So silly scare stories about thousands of terrorists already being in the USA and waiting to murder everyone in their beds will only hinder the fight against terrorism.
People were misusing statistics to make it look as though there were huge numbers of potential Muslim terrorists in the USA. I simply pointed out that, by using the same defective logic, you could argue that there are huge numbers of Protestant and Catholic potential terrorists.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
12/12/15 4:15 am
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| Thanks for the words in my mouth but no thanks (L) |
UncleJD |
Nick I'm not sure where you got the "thousands of terrorists" number, but it wasn't from me, I used the words extremists and radical, and referred to those that support or justify terrorism in any way, though it may be true that there are thousands of "would-be" or "may become" terrorist based on the fact that there are so many extremists/radical Muslims here. I guess rather than have you put words in my mouth, I should define my idea of "radical" or "extreme" Islam.
I (and most others), would define it as any Muslim who believes any of the following. Perhaps you disagree and think these are not radical or extreme but acceptable for people who claim peace as their moto?
1. Sharia law should be the legal system of government.
2. "honor killings" of women are EVER justified
3. a woman who is raped should be beaten for it as well
4. terror attacks are EVER justified
5. Israel has no right to exist or should be "wiped off the map"
6. The United States, Israel, or The West is the great Satan, should be destroyed for what they believe, etc..
7. Christians and/or Jews have no rights other than what Muslims give them because they are filthy Kafirs.
8. The Jewish Holocaust of WWII is fabricated.
9. The Turks of WWI did not commit mass genocide of the Armenian Christians.
10. Anyone who insults Mohammed should be punished in any way.
11. Homosexuals should be killed or beaten
12. Only 3 men can prove rape of a woman
I could go on and on, but you get the picture. Yes, my concern is that these beliefs may not constitute an outright, active terrorist, they certainly enable those that are. Watch this video with numbers taken from the Pew Research Center, where more than half of the worlds' Muslims would fit the definition of radical/extremist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpy7R2MM6ng |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
12/12/15 9:20 am
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| Re: Thanks for the words in my mouth but no thanks (L) |
Nick Park |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Nick I'm not sure where you got the "thousands of terrorists" number, but it wasn't from me, |
I certainly wouldn't want to put words into anyone's mouth. From a thread entitled 'War on Terrorism': http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=84078&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | I know that many would like to see us take it to ISIS by bombing them or fighting them on the ground. If we do that, all hell will break loose here. All of the people like this couple in California will hit us at once all over the country.
I believe there are thousands of them. |
The first reply was:
| UncleJD wrote: | | I agree, probably many tens of thousands, and yes we will collectively live in fear of Islam and never say or do anything hoping they won't kill us. |
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
12/12/15 10:23 am
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| Re: Thanks for the words in my mouth but no thanks (L) |
UncleJD |
| Nick Park wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | Nick I'm not sure where you got the "thousands of terrorists" number, but it wasn't from me, |
I certainly wouldn't want to put words into anyone's mouth. From a thread entitled 'War on Terrorism': http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=84078&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | I know that many would like to see us take it to ISIS by bombing them or fighting them on the ground. If we do that, all hell will break loose here. All of the people like this couple in California will hit us at once all over the country.
I believe there are thousands of them. |
The first reply was:
| UncleJD wrote: | | I agree, probably many tens of thousands, and yes we will collectively live in fear of Islam and never say or do anything hoping they won't kill us. |
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I was still referring to extremists, and potentials, not active terrorists, and I stand by that very conservative number, its more likely in the hundreds of thousands seeing how "extremism" is the norm. The point is that Islam IS an extreme religion and the "norm" is extremism in the definitions of the points I listed above (and many, many more I could). You'd have to be blind not to see it. So I still say that people who deny it are indeed the ones living in fear of it, hoping it will just go away and leave them alone if we are nice. Appeasement is nothing new from Europe, it brought us a pretty sizable problem about 75 years ago. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
12/12/15 11:24 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| While I don't see it happening in our world today, I can certainly see one big reason why the Crusades happened. Just sayin'. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12804
12/12/15 1:13 pm
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Nick Park |
| UncleJD wrote: |
I was still referring to extremists, and potentials, not active terrorists, and I stand by that very conservative number, its more likely in the hundreds of thousands seeing how "extremism" is the norm. The point is that Islam IS an extreme religion and the "norm" is extremism in the definitions of the points I listed above (and many, many more I could). You'd have to be blind not to see it. So I still say that people who deny it are indeed the ones living in fear of it, hoping it will just go away and leave them alone if we are nice. Appeasement is nothing new from Europe, it brought us a pretty sizable problem about 75 years ago. |
I don't think anyone is suggesting appeasement (something that both the US and Europe practiced before WWII).
Not all Muslims are Islamists. For example, the Ahmadiyya Muslims are pacifists who believe in separation of mosque and State. They have the largest mosque in Europe, and there are thousands of them in the US.
The experience of Northern Ireland demonstrated that lumping all Catholics together as potential terrorists, and treating them harshly, was counter-productive. Building bridges with peaceful members of the Catholic community moved the country towards peace and isolated the terrorists.
Also, by building bridges with the Catholic community, the police began receiving tip offs about suspicious activity - making many arrests and foiling terrorist attacks.
This is already happening in Canada where many imams cooperate with the police and encourage members of their mosques to report anything suspicious. In 2013 a major terrorist attack on Canada's trains was thwarted because of a tip-off the police received from an imam.
Terrorism only needs a few people to create havoc. You can't defeat it militarily. Every military action that causes civilian deaths or empowers the terrorists. Stigmatizing an entire community won't stop terrorism either.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
12/12/15 5:36 pm
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| Re: 89% of American Muslims say terrorism can never be justified |
Methocostal |
Took the words out of my mouth! Look at the shakeup with two terriorist in California. Think of 330K doing the same thing. Ok, say only 10% of the 11% are crazy enough to do something. Do we want 33,000 active shooters, bombers, etc wreeking havoc?
Years ago, way before 911, I made a comment that political correctness would be the end of America. Look at idiocy of our immigration policies, background checks, or lack thereof. Look at all the ruckous created by bad decisions of a few bad policemen. We are at a boiling point and our brilliant President just feeds the fires of creating further racial unrest by premature speculation on events (and he is a trained Attorney of all things) to jump to racism, when it has not been the case in vast majority of the alleged racist killings by police. We have become far more racially divided by this goofball and he should have been the best prepared to bring races together, as he himself, if bi-racial.
It is an absolute travesty what is happening today.
I fully understand it is difficult on those good muslims that do not believe in extremism. But, putting shudders on our eyes, opening our borders to anyone that wants to come, is not the answer.
| UncleJD wrote: | | Nick Park wrote: | | In a 2010 Gallup poll it was asked if it was ever permissible for individuals or small groups to target and kill civilians. 89% of American Muslims said no, it was never permissible under any circumstances. |
Somehow that's comforting? I was told I was stupid for saying that 7% of American Muslims believed in justified terrorism. So, 11% ??? out of 3Million American Muslims that would be 330,000 American Muslims that are OK with it.
And the holier-than-though elitist-only media just runs around on-fire with the "Trump is lying, there weren't 1,000 Muslims that cheered after 9/11".. As if they have video surveillance of every Muslim in the US on that date and know the exact head-count. Obviously if 11% feel terrorism is justifiable (yeah, I know in certain circumstances, like there's a Christian still twitching), then isn't it laughable to think there WEREN'T thousands cheering that day? |
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Friendly Face
Posts: 496
12/14/15 11:40 am
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UncleJD |
I don't think shutting down our borders to Muslim countries for a few months until we figure out what we are doing is a bad idea at all. How else would you fix the problem? Business as usual will only produce the same results ("we don't know how they got through every screening we have and how they didn't get on any watch-list even though they have been radicalized for years").
And while I'm at it, can someone explain how ISIS videos show they have a pickup truck from Houston Texas with a local business contact phone number still painted on the side? Records show the truck purchased through the ever-so-peaceful Muslim country of Turkey, then obviously sold right to ISIS. We can't even trade with the most moderate of them without it winding up bad for us. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
12/14/15 12:06 pm
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| Re: 89% of American Muslims say terrorism can never be justified |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nick Park wrote: | | In a 2010 Gallup poll it was asked if it was ever permissible for individuals or small groups to target and kill civilians. 89% of American Muslims said no, it was never permissible under any circumstances. |
Kinda like trustin a communist to tell the truth. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
12/14/15 3:56 pm
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| nope, nearly 50% believe in extremism |
UncleJD |
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