 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 |
Cojak |
I get so upset, there are billions and billions of people who do not believe like I do. They ARE WRONG! i DON'T KNOW WHICH TO ATTACK FIRST!
So I am going to try to focus on the ones who need Christ, who will watch my life or listen to my words (thru Jesus).
If I am asked, I will give my opinion. But there are billions of folks who do not care what I think, they also have that right.
Obama said 'Climate change the most present concern', I don't believe that, but neither do I think WOF is our most present danger. But then AGAIN that is my opinion; ONE OF MANY! 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24282
11/29/15 10:41 pm
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| |
Carolyn Smith |
Mark 6 says, "But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house." Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6 And He marveled because of their unbelief..."
Their lack of healing was not due to Jesus' lack of faith but because of their unbelief.
The man in John 5 who had been an infirmity 38 years didn't even know who Jesus was when he was healed, so his faith wasn't even involved.
There are different reasons people are healed or not. Some physical infirmities can be caused by emotional trauma or scars. If we don't deal with our emotions/emotional problems, often it will manifest in a physical form. i have had doctors agree with me on this point, and I have seen it in my own life.
Putting the blame on the sick person all the time is a cop out and not fair to the sick person. In addition to being sick, now we are heaping guilt on them because they're not healed.
In many instances, people in the Bible didn't really have any other options. Just as people who lived in the time period when the COG was founded, often they could not afford to go to the doctor. If someone didn't get serious with God and touch heaven, people died. I think that's why foreign countries see more healings than the US. We don't usually go to God with our needs until the doctors can't help us.
1 Corinthians 12 speaks of the "gift of healing" and the "working of miracles" in the list for the gifts of the Spirit. This seems to be a precise working of the Spirit and some people do seem to be more inclined towards these gifts than others. This is largely ignored by Pentecostal/charismatic folks or people are mocked if they claim to have this gifting.
God does not always give us a "yes" answer to our petitions. We want to put God in a box and come up with a formula that always works. God is a lot bigger than that, and sometimes we just don't have all the answers.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5915
11/29/15 10:53 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Eddie Robbins |
I think the thing that got to me the most, having worked with some of the folks who followed this teaching in Cleveland back in around 1976, was their arrogance. Bragging about how no sickness could come on their bodies, bless Gaaawd. I watched as they "claimed" millions of dollars to appear in our check books. It was sick. I wonder how many of those guys are still "in the faith."
Last edited by Eddie Robbins on 12/2/15 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
11/30/15 7:51 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| OTCP consider some things... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | How DO we explain to people that we believe that God still operates like He did in the Book of Acts...when it is clear as day that God does NOT operate like He did then? The exact same way we preach/explain Old Testament miracles. The Red Sea didn't open up but one time in Scripture, but I am convinced God could/would do it again if it was his will.
How do we look at ourselves in the mirror when we preach diving healing...and yet, down deep, know that MAYBE one person out of 100 will truly experience divine healing? The same way we preach to a church full a folk, an we know sinners is present, but we know that probly all aint gonna git saved. We preach it cause it is truth.
We either need to get on board with cessation...or we need to say that we have come short in some way. But we haven't come short. We preach divine healing. God still heals. Its a foretaste of the world to come. In that world--all will be healed for eternity. But not in this world. Why in the world would we claim that God heals when we know that God will almost certainly (if our own stats are to believed) NOT heal a person? The same way I preach that Jonah was literally in the whale's belly. Jesus said so. Never heard of it happenin again. But could it happen again? Without a doubt.
I'm afraid most of us are about as surprised as anyone when someone is miraculously healed.
Please know that I am NOT saying I have attained this. I know that I have NOT attained it. But I can find no way around the truth that there is no reason to believe God is not still willing to do these things. He is willing, Aaron, but at his discretion/timing/etc. And if I believe that, I have no choice but to place the shortcoming in MY court and not place it on God. If God doesn't heal, I am not going to blame God or claim that He doesn't do those things anymore. There is a vast difference in wimpishly sayin, "God wants a person to horrendously suffer, he sits back idly gleefully watchin folk suffer, when he could, but wont do anything about it," an somebody referencing the very same situation sayin, "I know my God can heal, but I know he loves me more than I could ever imagine, and if he chooses, for some reason I may never understand in this life, to not heal me, I trust him enough to know that he has my best interest in mind, and that he is doing something of far greater eternal value than a mere physical healing. Rather, I am going to say that if we keep pressing on, if we keep trying, if we keep believing, we CAN see what the apostles saw and experienced.THe apostles saw both pain (incarceration, beatings, martyrdom, etc.) as well as miraculous signs. So many of us want to follow Jesus during the miracles, but shun with all our might Gethsemane
I don't know how a person can claim to be Pentecostal when they preach divine healing KNOWING that it is almost a given that very few, if any, will receive miraculous healing. Yes, you can be a Christian and believe that no one will be healed...but how can you be a Pentecostal? Here again Aaron, I don't know who you are referencing. I've believed in healing all my life. It is the excess, the extra-biblical, the Kenyon/Hagin/Copeland model, the pseudo-guarantees, etc., that the ole timer outright and without apology rejects. |
|
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
11/30/15 11:47 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pentecostal Theology |
John Hughes |
is at the heart of WOF Preaching/Believing. Growing up Pentecostal I heard many preachers rail against medicine and many of them died proclaiming that Healing is provided for all in the atonement. By His stripes we are healed! Could it be that those verses on healing have been mis understood? could it be that healing is a gift given as the Holy Spirit wills and that true healing only comes at death? I do not post on this site often and read it sometimes. Making fun of any group of Christians to me is wrong. My heritage was that only Pentecostals are Filled with the Spirit but that too is untrue. My experiences have been full of judgmental "Spirit Filled" folks who ran through the church building, shouting that the devil is under their feet and going into the enemy's camp and taking back what he stole from them on Sunday and cut other Christians down during the week. That happens here too!. Norval Hayes daughter was a blood bought Child of God who grew up in a household where sickness symptoms were ignored and taught that to confess sickness was defeat. The theology was wrong, as much of the Pentecostal practices are wrong. The lady, however was a Christian. She loved the Lord and today is healed. God did not take the Cancer from her but He did take her from the cancer. My heartfelt sympathy goes out to her family.
_________________
To Live Without Passion, is unforgivable!! |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 91
12/2/15 10:22 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: Pentecostal Theology |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| John Hughes wrote: | | is at the heart of WOF Preaching/Believing...Making fun of any group of Christians to me is wrong. |
Mr. Hughes, just a few comments relating to your post:
WOF teaching is a mixture of three main strands of thought: 1) the concept of the American dream; 2) cultic New Age teachings, along with the teachings of EW Kenyon, made popular by Kenneth Hagin; and 3) Pentecostal/Charismatic teachings. Add the three together, along with faulty hermeneutics, and you have contemporary WOF teaching.
The ole timer IS NOT "making fun" of this group or any group. What will do is question the source and motivation of error. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
12/3/15 2:15 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| The question remains: |
John Hughes |
Word of Faith teaching has it's faults.....but are people who believe WOF teaching SAVED? I've know a lot of WOF folks who genuinely have a relationship with Jesus, win the lost, are active in evangelism, etc., etc. I am not a fan of WOF. I have read almost every book Kenyon wrote and some of the Kenyon plagiarisms by Kenneth E Hagin. Both had much to contribute that was genuine yet they both went into error and excess. Both of these men were motivated to do and be more for the Kingdom of God. Many of us who were raised in the COG have experienced error and excess in it also. Some of the error is still being perpetrated, yet folks still get saved. I have personally been blessed by ministry in and out of the COG that could possibly be deemed WOF by some. As someone rightfully said "If when eating seafood you find a bone....you just spit it out and keep eating the fish." There are some sermons that have bones in them........ 
_________________
To Live Without Passion, is unforgivable!! |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 91
12/3/15 11:19 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: The question remains: |
Carolyn Smith |
| John Hughes wrote: | | Word of Faith teaching has it's faults.....but are people who believe WOF teaching SAVED? I've know a lot of WOF folks who genuinely have a relationship with Jesus, win the lost, are active in evangelism, etc., etc. I am not a fan of WOF. I have read almost every book Kenyon wrote and some of the Kenyon plagiarisms by Kenneth E Hagin. Both had much to contribute that was genuine yet they both went into error and excess. Both of these men were motivated to do and be more for the Kingdom of God. Many of us who were raised in the COG have experienced error and excess in it also. Some of the error is still being perpetrated, yet folks still get saved. I have personally been blessed by ministry in and out of the COG that could possibly be deemed WOF by some. As someone rightfully said "If when eating seafood you find a bone....you just spit it out and keep eating the fish." There are some sermons that have bones in them........ |
I don't think it's our job to decide if someone is saved or not. Isn't that God's job?
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5915
12/3/15 11:25 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: The question remains: |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| John Hughes wrote: | | I am not a fan of WOF...I have personally been blessed by ministry...deemed WOF by some. |
Don't know that I'm blessed by stuff I'm not a fan of. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
12/4/15 12:54 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Old Time Country Preacher |
See how this thread went? Just like all the others dealin with error.
1. OTCP posits a truth.
2. The fence stradlers post a few pet verses (always interpreted incorrectly).
3. The modus operandi is showed for what it is.
4. The errorists then go ad hominem on the ole timer, callin him a skunk and a scoundrel.
5. Just when it seems the ole timer is standin alone, reinforcements (Aaron & Hur) come alongside an hold the ole timers hands up.
6. OTCP's posited truth prevails.
7. The enemy runs/hides till their next terror attack.
An folk say Acts is dyin...............Aint no way! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
12/11/15 3:11 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
