Actscelerate.com

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/8/15 10:16 pm**

The ole timer now knows why some are gung ho bout unaccredited docterates--you know, them what don't require much effort.

This has NOTHING to do with how hard or easy it is to obtain a doctorate. It has EVERYTHING to do with NEEDLESS courses that serve little purpose and are designed to make it look like you are "really gettin' an education!" Yep, kinda like a cardiologist takin NEEDLESS courses on “How to do Surgery.”

While I respect higher education, there is a scam to higher education. Part of it is "accreditation." Nothing wrong with it...so long as no one thinks that an accredited degree means you got a good education...or that not having an accredited degree means you got a bad one. Nope. The essence of the scam, is the very belief that unaccredited degrees are equivalent to legitimately accredited degrees.

The other "scam" (that may not be the best word) is, in my particular field--philosophy--I would have had to learn German, French, or Greek to obtain a doctorate. I mean, are the translations suspect in some way? And if they are, surely someone has fixed them by now, right? Am I to suppose that li'l ol' me, with my two semesters of foreign language, am now ready to parse the depths of philosophical content based on my, at best, cursory knowledge of the language? I mean, am I really expected to challenge the finest minds in language with my brief language overview? "The high, honorable, reverend, Dr. Theophilus, according to what I learnt in school last semester, has made a terrible mess of the translation of this important document! It was supposed to be about The Three Pigs, but he done made it into some philosophical treatise unbeknownst to us folks!" This paragraph is not germaine to the subject of discussion.

Men/women standing before sinners/saints ever single week don't need no Greek/Hebrew.

You are EXACTLY RIGHT. We've had the KJV for several centuries...we have had other translations that some consider even better...and there has not been a single "gotcha" moment in which someone exclaims, "Egads! We've been reading it all wrong! The whole monotheistic point is wrong! We've been told that the ancient languages say, 'There is no God beside Me," but REALLY, after my taking some language studies and stuff, it says: "There is no God beside Me...and Ba'al and Zeus and Dagon." A silly analogy, no one has suggested this.

You don't need to know or explain or preach a SINGLE word of Greek or Aramaic. The translation has already been done by the finest minds and scholarship on earth. Nope, sorry, OTCP, we won't be needing your two cents on what this or that Greek word "really" means. We're good. Here again, you set forth something I have neither suggested or alluded to.

I have no problem with explaining a Greek word (I do it myself). But to act as if you are not a proficient ministers if you don't know or study the Greek is FOOLISHNESS. It's just bull malarkey that has boiled over in the heads of folks who think that "real ministers" must know Greek/Hebrew. Very good, Aaron. IT sounds like you have a real grasp of barnyard English, i.e., “bull malarkey.”

Nope. Just read the English translations and you are set! Period. I heard a ole independent Baptist boy preachin on the radio one day railin agin preachers who use original languages. He said, “why do I need to know Greek/Hebrew, I got the good ole King James Bible. It’s the perfect version cause its in ENGLISH.” He went on to tell the listening minions that the word ENGLISH has 7 letters, and 7 is God’s number of perfection, an for that reason he didn’t need no Greek/Hebrew. I just shook ma head an chuckled at such a moronic position.

Aint no big deal. Pastors is gonna stand before the living God an give account fer everthing they preach, so learnin more bout the good Book aint no big deal. Take a short cut. Do it the cheap way. No need to study hard, discipline yaself an exegete correctly.

Strawman alert! (You're actually getting pretty good at it.) We should study the Bible. You don't have to know the Greek to do that. You can read what the best translators on the planet have carefully, thoughtfully, reverently, over-and-over, determined to be the best interpretation of the text, and you can just go with that. After all, I don't have 30 years to devote to becoming a Greek expert so I can confirm that, yep, the KJV (or others) translators got it dead on! ***I actually agree with you on this point (imagine that), a feller can get to heaven without knowin Greek/Hebrew. He can be a good pastor without knowin the gender of the word gnosis or the tense of the word lego. Many thousands a preachers throughout church history have been used by God didn’t know an iota from a beta, many of em were not even skilled in their own native language. But they could read, they read their Bible, understood it, an won souls to God. But none a this has anything to do with what I posted earlier about Strong’s.

Hey, here's an idea: YOU DO THAT FOR US! That'll allow us to do something that is actually important instead of fixing a problem that doesn't exist or trying to reinvent the wheel. You get on that right away and check in from time to time to let us know the great mistakes that were made, OK? More ad hominem, Aaron, but ad hominem reactions do not adequately address problems.

Hey, this is why they so many cults. This is why woffie doctrine is embraced by so many COG preachers. PINK FLOYD is their theme group.

We don't need no education
We don't need to study at all
Just give us a Strong's Concordance
An we'll fulfill our Gospel call

We see it all the time in Pentecostal churches.

If you are right, I wonder how all those early Christians got so far out of hand and into error and heresy? I mean, those folks really knew their Greek, didn't they? Certainly many times better than us! So, once again, OTCP, we find that you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting. What is weighed and found wanting, Aaron, is your use of logic, because this is not in any way what I suggested.

Cults don't start because someone doesn't know the Greek. I can agree with this if the founders of cults in no way use Greek/Hebrew at all. But when they use A-B-C level Greek (Strong’s) to parse words/phrases/sentences that require a deeper level of linguistic skill to correctly interpret, and then incorporate that interpretation to their “doctrine, yes, it can easily digress into error.

They start because folks don't read and study the ENGLISH in their own Bible! This is partially true!

I hope you really are parodying this and are not serious. If you are, I won't be able to take you seriously from now on. There is absolutely no hint of parody in this thread

Heres the deal. Not every man is afforded the privilege of formal linguistic studies, but Ray Hughes said once, “Every man is responsible before God to avail himself of all the training opportunities at his disposal.” In essence, use what training God has allowed ya to obtain to be the best ya can be for God.

You took me to task over something I DID NOT say or imply. I have the greatest respect for men who did not have the benefit of formal academic training, but on their own became self-educated. I have little respect for men who had no opportunity for formal education, and who, rather than discipline themselves via personal study, only complain about what they did not or do not have. And especially those who after a little reading in a volume such as Strong’s and attempt to pass themselves off as scholars. These are the kind of persons who are easily led into error because they are using an A-B-C linguistic resource to conduct in-depth linguistic research.

Aaron Scott

OTCP...sorry

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6036 **12/9/15 5:49 am**

Sorry, but, yes, your implication was that a preacher should know/study Greek, etc. Otherwise, he/she was not fully prepared in some way. Your post would make no sense in this thread otherwise.

Well, now that I mention it, your goal seems to never be to make sense, so, hey, maybe you are on to something.

Old Time Country Preacher

Re: OTCP...sorry

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/9/15 7:57 am**

Aaron Scott

OTCP...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6036 **12/9/15 8:10 am**

1. And my post was to show that, indeed, the study of Greek/Hebrew does have little practical purpose except for those who aspire to linguistic scholarship. Let those who are scholars and experts do the interpretation, since a cursory study of Greek/Hebrew would have little, if any, more value than just having a Strong's Concordance.

2. See my previous sentence.

Why in the WORLD would any minister who is not seeking to become a Greek scholar embark on a course of study that will not actually enhance their understanding of scripture?

Only if they are seeking enough scholarship to be able to contest the translations or interpretations should they have any real reason to study the original languages. To simply get a cursory understanding does not enhance one's understanding of the Bible.

Very simply, I don't have to learn ancient languages to accept that the Rosetta Stone was translated correctly. Multiple and overlapping studies have already confirmed that for me! Same with the Bible.

What is left to us is to know the English Bible well enough to preach it with truth and conviction.

Yes, if you want to throw in a Greek word here and there, fine. But a Strong's Concordance will more than do that job for you under such circumstances.

I am NOT against scholarship and the study of these languages. I AM against the NEEDLESS requirement that one study these languages for a degree in, say, Pastoral Studies, or what have you. It's just a hard case to make that someone needs to take these courses. Of course, you do have to PAY for those courses, so maybe it makes sense to the college after all.

Da Sheik

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1862 **12/9/15 2:57 pm**

I love the study of languages. I wish I could master English (my wife cites my abuse of it weekly Embarassed

). My initial post was not a knock on those who study or reference the original languages of the bible. I just wonder sometimes if it can become overkill- especially when neither the speaker or the audience has more than a Strong's education in Greek/ Hebrew

Aaron Scott

Da Sheik...a good point!

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6036 **12/9/15 3:55 pm**

If an AUDIENCE doesn't know Greek, then someone can pull a fast one on them. That would mean, at least to some (namely, my beloved frenemy, OTCP), that ALL Christians should have an indepth knowledge of Greek, etc., lest they be led astray.

Of course, this is completely unfeasible. There would be man-YEARS spent in learning the original language instead of learning that English translation of the scriptures themselves.

At some point, we have to know those who labor among us, trusting that they will not lead us astray, that they, even without knowing a word of Greek, can find enough scriptural firepower in ENGLISH to withstand any erroneous nonsense that someone tries to foist on us.

Old Time Country Preacher

Re: OTCP...

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/10/15 4:03 am**

bonnie knox

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **12/10/15 7:59 am**

Ole Timer, I think your last post just made the case in favor of Aaron's point. Shocked

Old Time Country Preacher

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **12/10/15 3:09 pm**