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 Re: Poimen |
Ichthus77 |
| BlessedinMsTn wrote: | That was a mighty long trip around the world to wind up no where?
You said specifically "God cannot sin" and on that we absolutely agree... and then you go on to say that he gave men several wives... thus having several wives cannot be sin or God could not have taken part in it
God even gave Moses instructions on how husbands should treat each of their wives, and not love one more than the other
God CREATED Evil,, in the fact that he is in full control of Evil.... but HE IS NOT EVIL... thus with Polygamy he blessed it,, endorsed it and PARTICIPATED IN IT
and you cant find ONE SCRIPTURE in the Bible that condemns it! |
God specifically told the kings not to multiply wives before the first king ever was given, so it wasn't his will. They did it in disobedience. In your proof text, God is only saying that He gave David automatically as Saul's successor by God's hand and will ALL that had once belonged to Saul.
We have the pattern of God in creation with Adam and Eve. Polygamy only started after the Fall. We have Jesus' clear teaching of twain becoming one to never be divided which was a HARD saying for all His listeners so that they declared never marrying to be better and we have the clear teaching for any kind of servant of God in Paul's writings.
We also have the Spirit of God. Any believer being drawn and enticed in this day and age to desire more than one partner, that's a spirit all right, but it's not the HOLY Spirit. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1270
4/20/08 7:49 am
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| Ichtus |
BlessedinMsTn |
Here are the words of Jesus
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5 vv 17-20
Jesus said he came to fulfil the law, not to destroy it. God's law contains details of how the practice of polygamy was to be regulated by the Israelites. Christ said he had not come to destroy this law the law itself is left untouched, including the law on polygamy. The law allowed, organized and in some cases commanded polygamy, and as it is unchanged
The law, which Christ did not destroy, allowed and regulated polygamy. A wife was owed duties of food, clothing and marital rights, and this protection was still to be provided if her husband took a second wife (Exodus 21 v 10). The law prevented her husband from marrying her mother, or from marrying another of her sisters, to be a rival wife, while she was still alive. (Leviticus 20 v 14 and Leviticus 18 v 17). The law ensured that a firstborn child maintained his superior rights of inheritance, even if his father preferred another of his wives to the child's mother (Deuteronomy 21 vv 15-17). The law limited the power of the King so that he couldn't "multiply wives to himself" (Deuteronomy 17 v 17). As can be seen elsewhere on this site, that law allows polygamy, but prevents constitutional abuse.
In addition to allowing polygamy, the law which Christ fulfilled actually commanded it in certain circumstances. If a man died without children then his brother was obliged to marry the widow. (Deuteronomy 25 vv 7-10). There is nothing to suggest that this was limited to unmarried brothers, and it is important that it applies to those already married, for the story of the kinsman-redeemer in Ruth establishes the biblical idea of redemption. Christ can redeem a sinner's debt, and this involves union with Christ, even though he has already redeemed someone else's debt and been united to them.
As well as this, the Bible also provides protection to unmarried women. If a man seduced an unmarried virgin, the law forced him to marry her, and therefore to provide the food, clothes and marital rights mentioned before. And he couldn't divorce her, so the protection was guaranteed for life. (Deuteronomy 22 vv 28-29). Again there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that there was any difference made by the man being married. So, if he was married, and he had an affair with a single woman, then the law demanded he become a polygamist. Imagine the effect this would have today - promises to marry would have to be kept, and so deceit in relationships would necessarily be reduced.
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The Remnant are Returning. Foundations are being Restored. All Breaches are being Repaired. The Body of Christ is Rising! |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6126
4/20/08 9:26 am
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BlessedinMsTn |
Isaiah the prophet spoke the words of God in predicting an end time when seven women would want to marry one man, with no indication that such a marriage would be bad. (Isaiah 4 v1)............................................................
This is perhaps explained by reference to the words of another prophet in Ezekiel 23 where there are two interesting points of note. Firstly God portrays himself as the polygamous husband of both Jerusalem and Samaria (represented as different wives).
If God can portray himself as a polygamist and God is sinless, can polygamy be wrong? Would this portrayal of polygamy be compounded, as it is by the prophet Jeremiah,in Jeremiah 3 vv 6-10 and 31 vv 31-32?
Secondly, God divides the one Israel that had been represented as his wife into plural marriage partners. This is important later, as it is an example of Christ and the Church.
Christ is one with the Church as a body, but he is also one with each individual member, as 1 Corinthians 6 vv 15-17 talks of the "members" of Christ being one Spirit with him. Hence Christians are One in the Church which is one with Christ, and they are also individually united to him. In this way, Christ really does fulfil the prophets with respect to polygamy.
_________________
www.thevaughnfamily.org
The Remnant are Returning. Foundations are being Restored. All Breaches are being Repaired. The Body of Christ is Rising! |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6126
4/20/08 9:30 am
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| Re: Where does the Bible condemn polygamy? |
Randy Johnson |
| doyle wrote: | | I've only got one wife and love her very much. I have no desire whatsoever to have a different one or additional one. |
The only reason I would want to have a second wife is to send one out to work and have one stay at home and take care of the kids. Of course, if they wanted to switch jobs that would be fine with me.
| doyle wrote: | However, I thought maybe viewers might want to discuss polygamy from Scripture. Where in Scripture was polygamy between adults forbidden?
The Bible does say, "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and cling to his wife and the two shall become one." Does that mean only one? Can he become one with more than one? |
I don't think you can necessarily say Scripture prohibits polygamy, but it has probably been proven by experience not to be the best idea for ideal human relations. It might appeal to a man's libido, but what does it do to benefit the women? Rather than being prohibited by Scripture, it may be a case of "all things are lawful for me" but not all things are beneficial.
| doyle wrote: | | Also, the Scripture says those who desire to be a Bishop should be the husband of one wife. Was that requirement given to all other men or just to those desiring the office of Bishop? |
I can't help but think that if polygamy were approved for the laity, but not for the clergy, we would have a dearth of clergyman.  |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5431
4/20/08 7:37 pm
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| Re: Ichtus |
Ichthus77 |
| BlessedinMsTn wrote: | Here are the words of Jesus
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5 vv 17-20
Jesus said he came to fulfil the law, not to destroy it. God's law contains details of how the practice of polygamy was to be regulated by the Israelites. Christ said he had not come to destroy this law the law itself is left untouched, including the law on polygamy. The law allowed, organized and in some cases commanded polygamy, and as it is unchanged
The law, which Christ did not destroy, allowed and regulated polygamy. A wife was owed duties of food, clothing and marital rights, and this protection was still to be provided if her husband took a second wife (Exodus 21 v 10). The law prevented her husband from marrying her mother, or from marrying another of her sisters, to be a rival wife, while she was still alive. (Leviticus 20 v 14 and Leviticus 18 v 17). The law ensured that a firstborn child maintained his superior rights of inheritance, even if his father preferred another of his wives to the child's mother (Deuteronomy 21 vv 15-17). The law limited the power of the King so that he couldn't "multiply wives to himself" (Deuteronomy 17 v 17). As can be seen elsewhere on this site, that law allows polygamy, but prevents constitutional abuse.
In addition to allowing polygamy, the law which Christ fulfilled actually commanded it in certain circumstances. If a man died without children then his brother was obliged to marry the widow. (Deuteronomy 25 vv 7-10). There is nothing to suggest that this was limited to unmarried brothers, and it is important that it applies to those already married, for the story of the kinsman-redeemer in Ruth establishes the biblical idea of redemption. Christ can redeem a sinner's debt, and this involves union with Christ, even though he has already redeemed someone else's debt and been united to them.
As well as this, the Bible also provides protection to unmarried women. If a man seduced an unmarried virgin, the law forced him to marry her, and therefore to provide the food, clothes and marital rights mentioned before. And he couldn't divorce her, so the protection was guaranteed for life. (Deuteronomy 22 vv 28-29). Again there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that there was any difference made by the man being married. So, if he was married, and he had an affair with a single woman, then the law demanded he become a polygamist. Imagine the effect this would have today - promises to marry would have to be kept, and so deceit in relationships would necessarily be reduced. |
The law of Moses also had regulations permitting divorce, but when Jesus came along He said No divorce except for fornication. So sometimes Jesus fulfills the law by revealing God's original intent and God's heart for man and not merely restating what was "permitted". |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1270
4/20/08 8:08 pm
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| Ichtus |
BlessedinMsTn |
There were several other reasons for divorce besides fornication,,,, so you see in both the OT & the NT you have the law and the fulfillment of the law
ALL OF THE LAW was not done away with!!!!! Or else,, get rid of the Ten Commandments
_________________
www.thevaughnfamily.org
The Remnant are Returning. Foundations are being Restored. All Breaches are being Repaired. The Body of Christ is Rising! |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6126
4/20/08 9:55 pm
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mytimewillcome |
Can we get a few more posts on polygamy please. I, personally, think we are just scratching the surface.  |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
4/20/08 10:38 pm
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Ichthus77 |
| You never have answered the question of if it is just a matter of adding another wife or two, why would Jesus' audience conclude not getting married is better in response to Jesus teaching that TWAIN become ONE and never can be separated. Just add more women and problem resolved and continue feeding and supporting the original one. Jesus teaching would no longer appear "harsh" to them if He was allowing polygamy. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1270
4/21/08 6:20 am
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| Ichthus |
burned out |
I think your post about the twain becoming one and can never be separated is an excellent thought.
If I understand your question right--why would the people be upset, and say why get married in the first place, when they could have just added more wives while continuing to support and be married to the first wife--Hope if have your thoughts right.
I reckon there is one other logical thought that could be going on here--not saying that it was this, only that it could have been this: Even if they could have married more women, they would still have to remain married to the one that they desired to be separated from. No matter how many other wives they would have taken, there would still be this tension that they were "tied" to. They had become used to being able to discard relationships without have to work through difficulties. So not being able to be separated from this relationship was to them a "harsh" thing. In other words a bunch of babies that didn't want to work for things, just wanted everything to be "pie in the sky."
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Man, am I tired. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 179
4/21/08 9:42 am
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| Re: Ichthus |
Ichthus77 |
| burned out wrote: | I think your post about the twain becoming one and can never be separated is an excellent thought.
If I understand your question right--why would the people be upset, and say why get married in the first place, when they could have just added more wives while continuing to support and be married to the first wife--Hope if have your thoughts right.
I reckon there is one other logical thought that could be going on here--not saying that it was this, only that it could have been this: Even if they could have married more women, they would still have to remain married to the one that they desired to be separated from. No matter how many other wives they would have taken, there would still be this tension that they were "tied" to. They had become used to being able to discard relationships without have to work through difficulties. So not being able to be separated from this relationship was to them a "harsh" thing. In other words a bunch of babies that didn't want to work for things, just wanted everything to be "pie in the sky." |
Yes, you got my thought right. and even with what you suggest, just adding more wives seems like such an easy way out and just ignoring the wife that is the "pain" while continuing to support her totally but concentrating on the new wives just seems so easy that their extreme statement that singleness and celibacy are better just woundn't fit!! It seems that they are taking Jesus word's just as traditional and extreme as the Pentecostal (and Christian) church: Twain becoming one (and ONLY twain), and that for LIFE.
As well as Jesus' very real teaching that even looking at another woman lustfully is already adultery in the heart (the THOUGHT before the ACT).
Pray tell how is a guy gonna take another woman to wife WITHOUT having sexual thoughts about her BEFORE marriage?? If just LOOKING at her lustfully while you are married is sin, how can actually HAVING her not be sin? Marrying her makes it no longer adultery all of a sudden? So it's adultery according to Jesus up until you actually marry the second one and then it suddenly becomes OK? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1270
4/22/08 7:19 pm
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| disturbance in the force |
REVKC |
I since a disturbance is this leading to a split
THE COG and THE FGOC
Church of God and Fundamental Church of God.
i think I will stick with the Church of God, although I don;t have scriptural reason against poligamy, I Love my wife and could never imagine having someone else to hold, The bad thing about poligamy is the total lack of respect for women, and therefore the lack of Love, because to me Love is all about respect and I respect my wife so much and love her so much and understand one thing she is my one and only wife and I absolutely am in love with that thought. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 349
5/9/08 1:59 pm
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Russell Roberts |
| Polygamy is not condemned in scripture. Period. It is culturally, taboo. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2919
2/10/10 8:02 pm
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| Hey, I can still post here |
bonnie knox |
| BlessedinMsTn wrote: | Polygamy is all throughout nature
One Buck, many Does
One Lion, many tigers |
I can see we have a little explaining to do. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/5/12 1:31 pm
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