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 Interesting quote by Dr. Gause on forgiveness of sin |
Quiet Wyatt |
In speaking of justification, distinguished Church of God theologian Dr. R. Hollis Gause makes the following noteworthy statement:
"The declaration of which we speak is a judgment concerning past sins and not future sins. Future sins will be forgiven as they are confessed and forsaken (1 Jn 1.9; 2.1,2; Prov. 28:13; Ps 66:18) but they are not already declared forgiven in the initial experience of justification.". R. Hollis Gause, PhD, _Living in the Spirit_ Revised and Expanded Edition 2009, page 49. |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 1:09 am
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| Dr. Gause and Forgiveness |
Theodore Ballard |
On this topic Dr. Gause and I are in total agreement!
Theodore Ballard
Merritt Island, Fl |
Friendly Face
Posts: 440
6/11/11 5:44 am
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| Re: Interesting quote by Dr. Gause on forgiveness of sin |
spartanfan |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | In speaking of justification, distinguished Church of God theologian Dr. R. Hollis Gause makes the following noteworthy statement:
"The declaration of which we speak is a judgment concerning past sins and not future sins. Future sins will be forgiven as they are confessed and forsaken (1 Jn 1.9; 2.1,2; Prov. 28:13; Ps 66:18) but they are not already declared forgiven in the initial experience of justification.". R. Hollis Gause, PhD, _Living in the Spirit_ Revised and Expanded Edition 2009, page 49. |
Again, proven to be a great Theologian. Jesus offered His blood before the Father in Heaven so that all of our sins could be atoned for the moment we confess them. The word atone in regard to the Old Covenant means "to cover up." The word atone in regard to the work of the blood of His cross never means just to "cover up" but to completely eradicate. This is where the inclusionists err, saying that "our sins - past, present and future are already removed from everyone because His blood is on the Mercy Seat in Heaven so the job of the church isn't to save the world but to tell the people of the world they are already saved." Individually your sin is eradicated when you confess your sins(with full intent of complete repentance) and confess Jesus as your Savior and Lord believing in Him and His work and testimony.
This also explains why the fulfillment of the Messiah's redemption of Israel as a nation (and so all Israel shall be saved) is yet to come to pass. Not because His blood has not yet been offered for them but because they have not accepted the sacrifice and the Savior and allowed His blood to be the sacrifice for their sins by faith. They will do so at the end of the Tribulation and thus the Leviticus 23 prophecy of "The Day of Atonement" for the Jews will be fulfilled at that time.
Dr. Gause is "spot on" with his Theology. The Calvinist commentators stumble all over Hebrews 10:26 and take unbelievable liberty in interpreting it: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," Dr. Gause can teach them a thing or two for sure. The sins that are eradicated are the ones that are confessed so if there is sinning after repentance then there must be confession after repentance to remove those latter sins. But praise God, "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Sins are removed from our "account" when they are confessed and repented of. Repentance is commanded by God for all and necessary for forgiveness of sins. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3638
6/11/11 5:46 am
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| One of these days when I have time |
Rafael D Martinez |
I would LOVE to be able to post online excerpts of Dr. Gause's teaching I have recordings of. An entire year's worth ..
Dr. Gause agreed to teach systematic theology as a Lee class for the one year Dr. Bowdle was on sabbatical back in the 1980's, the Lee instructor who normally covers the subject. Being a member of those who'd registered for the class the year before, I had no idea that Lee and the seminary would do this.
It was the highlight of my Lee years. Sitting under Dr. Gause speaking about all the things we did and hearing his brilliant exposition of Christian doctrine as well as his razor sharp dry wit and often completely amazing anecdotes on Church of God history and practice was easily worth every penny of my student loans I paid off in 2001.
And I recorded every single class and didn't erase a single tape. It's all still intact. I need to check those and see if they're ok.
_________________
www.spiritwatch.org
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16
These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987 |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
6/11/11 8:59 am
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| he is right on.... |
The strict Constructionis |
| Quote: | | Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God |
(Romans 3:25)
But thank God he can and will continue to cleanse us as we repent and continue to put our trust in his finished work. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4295
6/11/11 10:45 am
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michaelb |
Ok, question, because I have wrestled with this as many of you have.
If I am a genuine believer and slip up, say, in regard to loving my brother. Anger gets a hold on me and I cross that line from righteous indignation over to downright sinful verbal abuse that hurts my brother and I know it. This attitude of the flesh stays with me a few days and I don't repent of it. According to Dr Gause, this sin is unconfessed and therefore unforgiven. As an unforgiven soul, is my name removed from the book of life at that point until I confess and have it restored? Am I indeed going to hell for this infraction?
My personal view has been that of my relationship with my small children. They love me and I know it. Sometimes I catch them in clear rebellion to the rules of the house and they don't like the rule and they will not repent of it. They're not ready to walk away from the whole family, they just have an attitude. Do I put them out of the house until they confess in sackcloth and ashes? If while they are out there, we decide to take the family out for pizza, do we leave them? No. Is there discipline and punishment? Absolutely... Hebrews 12:6
Many times in my younger years I would assess my lifestyle and actions to see whether I was still saved. If I didn't really see any sins in my life then I must still be ok. I was clearly guilty of believing that I was saved by faith, but I STAYED SAVED by living right. I rather believe now that I am saved by faith, and I stay saved by faith. No, I do not necessarily believe OSAS, but I don't believe that God has a big eraser and is scrubbing our name out of the book every time we fail either.
Colossians 1:23 (ESV, NIV, KJV) - "If you continue in your faith..." It is conditional, but the condition is not our failure, but rather our faith. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 335
6/11/11 11:09 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
LC had better hope unconditional eternal security is true.
Last edited by Quiet Wyatt on 6/11/11 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 12:36 pm
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| From the "Sin unto Death" discussion... |
Quiet Wyatt |
The following is a post from the sin unto death discussion, in which I explain why in my view even though we cannot go on sinning and be saved, we can still have confidence that we will persevere in holiness, and that our perseverance in the faith is definitely not a "c.rapshoot" and God is not "wishy-washy" as LC false accuses my view of saying:
| Quote: | I should hasten to add that I believe we can have confidence that we can persevere in faith based on the following:
1 John 3:1-3 says he that has this hope in himself (the hope of Christ's return) purifies himself, even as He is pure. That is, if we keep our heart and mind where it needs to be, focused on Christ and the hope of our being fully transformed into his likeness at his return, we will not in fact backslide--we will be purifying ourselves, not defiling our wedding garments (Rev. 3:4).
Jude tells us that if we keep ourselves in the love of God, He is able to keep us from falling, and to present us blameless before his throne. 1 Thess 5:23-24 says God is faithful who calls us, and will do it--sanctify us entirely and preserve us unto the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 12 says that God disciplines us so that we may be partakers of His holiness. The Spirit and the Word of God will chasten us when necessary, helping us to get back on the path of righteousness for His name's sake.
Just as God gave such egregious rebels as Ananias and Sapphira and the false prophetess Jezebel "time to repent," even so will he give his children sufficient time to repent should they sin. But obviously there is a limit to the amount of time given to us, and we must not presume upon the grace of God by saying within ourselves, "I can just repent later. God will understand and forgive me anyway."
http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=63407&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 12:41 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Bro. Ballard and spartanfan, I am encouraged your comments. I was beginning to wonder if anyone else in the CoG still believed that without holiness no one shall see God. |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 12:47 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
LC thinks Dr. Gause believes in a sadistic, wishy-washy, inconsistent God too then.
What LC and others like him really want is to know they are secure in sin, no matter what. They think postconversion sins shouldn't make any difference with regard to their supposed unconditional guarantee of salvation. For them the moral law of God is abrogated, and they get a free sin-all-you-want-and-still-get-into-heaven card.
If you live according to the flesh, you shall die, but if you by the Spirit do put to death the misdeeds of the body, you shall live. Rom. 8:13 |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 12:55 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| If you believed in holy living, LC, you would not continue to lie about me. |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 12:57 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Though some may classify my view as such, I do not believe in "sinless perfection." I do believe we must repent of each sin in order to be forgiven. I do not believe a true Christian goes on sinning habitually. Any Christian who sins will be chastened by the hand of God so that they may be partakers in holiness, as Heb. 12 says. The pure in heart shall see God. God gives his children time to repent, but the time to repent is indeed limited.
Ezek. 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
21 “But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? 24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? 26 When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die. 27 Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life. 28 Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ O house of Israel, are my ways not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin.d 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.” ESV |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 1:12 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Well LC, you would certainly be the expert on lying. |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 1:12 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Yes you did.
I do not believer salvation is a "c.rapshoot", nor do I believe we must get saved all over again every time we sin. That is simply not true. |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 1:14 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| I answered them above. But don't bother reading it, your filter's filthy. |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 1:15 pm
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| Power of the Holy Spirit... |
Rick Mack |
I can't find anywhere that God is a "fan" of sin. That he ever advocated sin in any form. He destroyed the earth with water once because of man's sin. I think every one on ACTSCELERATE would agree that God hates sin...some would say, but He loves the sinner 
Man, though, has lacked the power in the flesh to live a life free from sin. He did not have the Holy Spirit to guide him into truth, to convict him of sin, to teach him, to help and encourage him. John 16:8
The scripture says, 1 John 2:1 I write to you that you sin not, but if you do you have an advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous. If we are to sin not, what part of NOT don't you understand. If we have an advocate, what is the point in the "not"? Did Christ rise again so that we might be slaves to sin and death or was it that we may walk in newness of life! He sent the Holy Spirit which is the paraclete...note this is the same word for "advocate" in John 14:16 ...the Holy Spirit speaks the same as Christ...Jesus said, the Holy Spirit would witness of Him John 15:26...speak in agreement with Him. So the advocate is living in us! Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit will, quicken us of sin...if we are walking in the light as He is in the light. If we are so bold to continue in sin after being convicted by the Holy Spirit, we are greiving the Holy Spirit and are on very dangerous ground. If we don't believe in the power of the conviction of the Holy Spirit, why should we believe in tongues? If we are not convicted of our sin, then we have truly hardened our hearts and are on dangerous ground.
It is us who would have our "pet" sins and look for loopholes to do our own will. Sin is not God's will for us.
I would ask those who think that the Holy Spirit has no power to convict immediately the heart of a believer, if he or she has experienced His power at conversion? And add, He is still as powerful to convict as He was when He convicted them at their conversion for is never changing!
The answer to all of this is quite simple. The Holy Spirit is powerful enough to convict you of all sin!
Someone has said in this thread that they believed it still took Holiness to get to heaven and I would add, it will be by the power of the Holy Spirit! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 386
6/11/11 1:50 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| I absolutely agree that it is only by reliance upon the power of the Spirit and the Word within that any of us can ever begin, continue, and finish the race that is set before us. His divine power has given us all things pertaining to life and godliness (2 Pet. 1:3). |
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Posts: 12817
6/11/11 2:35 pm
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Troy Hamby |
I lived the first 20 years of my life petrified that I was going to go to Hell because I forgot to confess every single sin in my life. This produced nothing but guilt and condemnation...then I read where there is NO condemnation in Christ Jesus! This completely liberated me and delivered me from this crazy belief that if I lived a life devoted to Christ but died w/one unconfessed sin, I would go to Hell...RIDICULOUS!
Of course I believe that sin needs to be confessed and we need to repent but I have come to think this is more for our benefit and not God's. I just can't picture God as some "sin accountant" in Heaven with the books out, recording and erasing every time we sin..."oh he's in now, oh wait, he just cussed, he's out until he asks forgiveness". Come on! The grace and mercy of God is bigger and more powerful than our feeble attempts to live a sinless life. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2458
6/11/11 3:23 pm
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Rick Mack |
| Troy Hamby wrote: | I lived the first 20 years of my life petrified that I was going to go to Hell because I forgot to confess every single sin in my life. This produced nothing but guilt and condemnation...then I read where there is NO condemnation in Christ Jesus! This completely liberated me and delivered me from this crazy belief that if I lived a life devoted to Christ but died w/one unconfessed sin, I would go to Hell...RIDICULOUS!
Of course I believe that sin needs to be confessed and we need to repent but I have come to think this is more for our benefit and not God's. I just can't picture God as some "sin accountant" in Heaven with the books out, recording and erasing every time we sin..."oh he's in now, oh wait, he just cussed, he's out until he asks forgiveness". Come on! The grace and mercy of God is bigger and more powerful than our feeble attempts to live a sinless life. |
I think it is more of a process whereby we refuse to hear the voice of Christ by the Holy Spirit when he convicts of sin. We refuse to repent and our heart becomes hardened, what is left then, but the same fate of those who refused in the scripture. Hebrews 3:7-9 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear my voice harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: when your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years." Wherfore I was grieved... a forty year process led to a grieving of God, no promised land, no Canaan. So we should take heed as verse 13 of Heb. 3 says lest we be hardened through deceitfulness of sin... I believe every time we sin the Spirit convicts, but do we hear, that is, do we respond to His voice? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 386
6/11/11 4:29 pm
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Troy Hamby |
| Rick Mack wrote: | | Troy Hamby wrote: | I lived the first 20 years of my life petrified that I was going to go to Hell because I forgot to confess every single sin in my life. This produced nothing but guilt and condemnation...then I read where there is NO condemnation in Christ Jesus! This completely liberated me and delivered me from this crazy belief that if I lived a life devoted to Christ but died w/one unconfessed sin, I would go to Hell...RIDICULOUS!
Of course I believe that sin needs to be confessed and we need to repent but I have come to think this is more for our benefit and not God's. I just can't picture God as some "sin accountant" in Heaven with the books out, recording and erasing every time we sin..."oh he's in now, oh wait, he just cussed, he's out until he asks forgiveness". Come on! The grace and mercy of God is bigger and more powerful than our feeble attempts to live a sinless life. |
I think it is more of a process whereby we refuse to hear the voice of Christ by the Holy Spirit when he convicts of sin. We refuse to repent and our heart becomes hardened, what is left then, but the same fate of those who refused in the scripture. Hebrews 3:7-9 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear my voice harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: when your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years." Wherfore I was grieved... a forty year process led to a grieving of God, no promised land, no Canaan. So we should take heed as verse 13 of Heb. 3 says lest we be hardened through deceitfulness of sin... I believe every time we sin the Spirit convicts, but do we hear, that is, do we respond to His voice? |
i could agree with that...it's this notion that 1 sin can send us to Hell that is crazy to me. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2458
6/11/11 5:39 pm
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