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Eddie Robbins |
| It's Groundhog Day |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
4/10/11 7:13 pm
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famousflavius |
| This thread is getting on my nerve could somebody please delete it. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2447
4/10/11 7:20 pm
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| Doyle |
Cojak |
I whole heartedly agree we have had great men, David an example, who had failed. BUT THEY DID NOT HAVE TO, We have had more men who have not failed than have. Nothing forces a man to fail, temptations come to everyone, some stay humble and DO NOT FAIL.
I think we are doing a discervice to the ones who have been totally faithful to their calling.
I remember in my time in the ministry hearing a man, an evangelist, say it seemed that everyone had a testimony of how far God had brought them from the depths of sin, drugs, alcohol. He said sometimes I feel I am handicapped, by not having that testimony.
Some guys/gals have resisted sin or major failings, all their Christian lives, and have a testimony that should be recognized.
With the help of the Lord, One DOES NOT HAVE TO FAIL, NO ONE DOES. NO ONE NEEDS TO BRING DISHONOR ON THE CHURCH OR THEIR FAMILY.
I failed THE lord BIG TIME, but I have friends who have not, because they stayed closer to the Lord than I did.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
4/10/11 11:05 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
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Quiet Wyatt |
| Bro Bob wrote: | James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. |
Amen.
The difference is not that he was tempted or had desire/lust. Everybody has both in varying degrees much of the time. The difference is the one who sins YIELDS to the temptation.
Paul also indicates in 1 Cor 7 that a husband and wife depriving one another definitely can make the temptation to stray much more difficult to deal with. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/11/11 12:51 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Amen, brother Cojak.
May we all have the resolve of Joseph rather than the pride and arrogance of David (who by the way was quite obviously not a man after God's own heart while he was committing adultery and murder and trying to cover it all up). |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/11/11 12:55 am
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Stay Strong |
It goes two ways sometimes. There is no way to justify it but sometimes men have a spouse who, for whatever reason, refuses to engage in sexual relations with them. On the other token, women seek the affair because the husband completely ignores his wife and tunes her out when she wants to spend time with him or talk with him. The selfishness can go two ways. Atached to that man who has an affair may be a wife who says "I have no desire for sex so I don't have sex with my husband. He's very shallow if he thinks he has to have it." Or a husband that says "She doesn't understand that I work hard to pay the bills and give her the things she has and my time is limited. She doesn't appreciate all I do for her."
Like I said, there is no excuse for an affair, but sometimes we have to look beyond the simple surface issue of "he can't control himself" or "she's a tramp." There is usually under-the-surface issues going on in the marriage that cause these things to happen. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 226
4/11/11 7:13 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | There is usually under-the-surface issues going on in the marriage that cause these things to happen.
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Interestingly enough, couples who remain faithful to each other sometimes have issues, too.
Stay Strong, I'd be interested in your take on why you think King David committed adultery. As the prophet Nathan pointed, King David didn't steal the poor man's little ewe lamb because he was suffering from want of sheep. He had plenty.
Of course, you might be describing Bathsheba, "Aw, my husband never has time for me; he's always off fighting one of those wars!"  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
4/11/11 9:16 am
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bonnie knox |
| Cojak wrote: |
I whole heartedly agree we have had great men, David an example, who had failed. BUT THEY DID NOT HAVE TO, We have had more men who have not failed than have. Nothing forces a man to fail, temptations come to everyone, some stay humble and DO NOT FAIL.
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If you're not careful Cojak, you're gonna be preaching victory in Jesus! |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
4/11/11 9:24 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
I don't know of any Christian that has ever sinned that didn't have a good reason to sin.
They wouldn't do it if they didn't feel entitled to that sin because of _____.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
4/11/11 9:36 am
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Lee Roy Brown |
I’m always amazed with this subject comes up and the condemnation that many bring. We sometimes speak of King David’s sin and forget that it goes so much deeper than that. If there was ever a case for a generational curse David’s family would be it. David has a problem with women and this issue doesn’t even escape him at death. When he is dying only the warm body of a virgin girl can make him feel better. David’s eldest son Adonijah declares himself king and gathers his army to take his reign. Once he realizes that Solomon is going to take over as king his only request not to fight for the throne was a woman. So sick that even his mother tries to broker the deal for her son to get this woman he desires. Think about it Adonijah is willing to give up his kingship just for the lust of a woman. Solomon of course would have no parts in his lurking brother and would kill him. Then let’s not forget about Solomon himself who had 700 wives and 300 mistresses. Yes that is right he had 300 women on the side to go along with his 700 wives. He developed more of God’s favor and received more of God’s blessing then even his farther. David was known as a man after God’s own heart, even as his struggles over women still showed up at his death bed.
The bible is full of great men as a matter of fact not great men but God’s men who had a problem with chasing after women. God still uses them. It’s fascinating to me that we don’t see the personal problems of God’s leaders in the NT as we did in the old. Sometimes Paul or a writer would point that there was a problem but would never directly point out what that personal problem was. As public as the stories of the men in the Old Testament were God seems to keep the private lives of his soldiers in the NT just that, private. He focuses more on the ministry aspects of their lives. Did these men have issues? Did some of these men fall?
There is no excuse for someone committing adultery. Especially in today’s society we need to let our light so shine before men. I do however have one issue. It seems today in the church we want to revert back to the Old Testament shadow of things. We want our leader’s lives to be very public and want to know every little thing about them. God seems to want to keep the focus on Jesus and not the private lives of his ministers rather for the good or for the bad. I know there is growing trend within the COG for pastor’s to handle these things privately when a member of his staff falls. I know guys who would never put a fellow minister through the shame of the COG system. When a ministers falls into this trap they will council and correct in the local church quietly and the system never knows. I know of one large church whose pastor had an affair. He went to his DO who did not take it public. The guy took three months off for personal reasons. The state offices never knew. Today this man says he would have never recovered had this DO brought him into the system. Today his church runs almost 2000.
Listen men like women. Men like sex. We make a huge deal about it. God does punish this act but he seems to make far less of a deal over it then we do. I still believe that when someone commits adultery they are hurting themselves, their wife, their church and everyone around them. I also believe if a person is really sorry that we hang on to it much longer then God does.
Ok fire away. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 426
4/11/11 10:08 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: |
I’m always amazed with this subject comes up and the condemnation that many bring. We sometimes speak of King David’s sin and forget that it goes so much deeper than that. If there was ever a case for a generational curse David’s family would be it. David has a problem with women and this issue doesn’t even escape him at death. When he is dying only the warm body of a virgin girl can make him feel better. David’s eldest son Adonijah declares himself king and gathers his army to take his reign. Once he realizes that Solomon is going to take over as king his only request not to fight for the throne was a woman. So sick that even his mother tries to broker the deal for her son to get this woman he desires. Think about it Adonijah is willing to give up his kingship just for the lust of a woman. Solomon of course would have no parts in his lurking brother and would kill him. Then let’s not forget about Solomon himself who had 700 wives and 300 mistresses. Yes that is right he had 300 women on the side to go along with his 700 wives. He developed more of God’s favor and received more of God’s blessing then even his farther. David was known as a man after God’s own heart, even as his struggles over women still showed up at his death bed.
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Are we reading the same Bible? Abishag was not even the king's idea. The men around David suggested this in effort to warm him. (Didn't work, by the way. But in any case, David was not forbidden to have more than one wife.)
Solomon and Adonijah's conflict over Abishag seemed to have more to do with who controlled their father's inheritance (property, if we may be so crass).
I Kings 2:22 And king Solomon answered and said unto his mother, And why dost thou ask Abishag the Shunammite for Adonijah? ask for him the kingdom also; for he is mine elder brother; even for him, and for Abiathar the priest, and for Joab the son of Zeruiah.
(Solomon uses sarcasm worthy of Acts-celerate.  )
Quite plainly the scripture says that Adonijah acknowledges that God has chosen Solomon over himself.
I suppose we could debate whether David or Solomon had more favor with God, but God had specifically forbidden kings to "multiply unto themselves wives."
Deuteronomy 17:17
17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
God makes a pretty big deal out of adultery. After all, He was the One who said it was wrong in the first place, not us. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
4/11/11 11:44 am
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Lee Roy Brown |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: |
I’m always amazed with this subject comes up and the condemnation that many bring. We sometimes speak of King David’s sin and forget that it goes so much deeper than that. If there was ever a case for a generational curse David’s family would be it. David has a problem with women and this issue doesn’t even escape him at death. When he is dying only the warm body of a virgin girl can make him feel better. David’s eldest son Adonijah declares himself king and gathers his army to take his reign. Once he realizes that Solomon is going to take over as king his only request not to fight for the throne was a woman. So sick that even his mother tries to broker the deal for her son to get this woman he desires. Think about it Adonijah is willing to give up his kingship just for the lust of a woman. Solomon of course would have no parts in his lurking brother and would kill him. Then let’s not forget about Solomon himself who had 700 wives and 300 mistresses. Yes that is right he had 300 women on the side to go along with his 700 wives. He developed more of God’s favor and received more of God’s blessing then even his farther. David was known as a man after God’s own heart, even as his struggles over women still showed up at his death bed.
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Are we reading the same Bible? Abishag was not even the king's idea. The men around David suggested this in effort to warm him. (Didn't work, by the way. But in any case, David was not forbidden to have more than one wife.)
Solomon and Adonijah's conflict over Abishag seemed to have more to do with who controlled their father's inheritance (property, if we may be so crass).
I Kings 2:22 And king Solomon answered and said unto his mother, And why dost thou ask Abishag the Shunammite for Adonijah? ask for him the kingdom also; for he is mine elder brother; even for him, and for Abiathar the priest, and for Joab the son of Zeruiah.
(Solomon uses sarcasm worthy of Acts-celerate. )
Quite plainly the scripture says that Adonijah acknowledges that God has chosen Solomon over himself.
I suppose we could debate whether David or Solomon had more favor with God, but God had specifically forbidden kings to "multiply unto themselves wives."
Deuteronomy 17:17
17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
God makes a pretty big deal out of adultery. After all, He was the One who said it was wrong in the first place, not us. |
Some people read the bible already knowing what they want it to say. Some read the bible asking God to show them what it really says. I suppose if we read it for what it really is some of us wouldn’t know how to handle it. They brought her to David because they knew that’s what the king liked. Even if David’s leadership was more successful than his son’s NO one can argue that Solomon wasn’t highly favored of God. We were in a staff meeting one time and one of the secretaries at our church stated she almost couldn’t serve God to think that David was a man after God’s own heart when he treated women like he did. It bothered her but then she realized that it couldn’t really mean what it said and she felt better. I’m not sure what her reasons was but she had to make it say something else. She just couldn’t serve a God who blesses a womanizer. As I said some people can’t handle what’s really in there. One of my favorite messages I ever heard preached was called David Had a Problem. It was about David and his whole family who had a problem with the ladies. God still blessed these men. I’m not saying he blessed them because of it, I do think however God blesses us in spite of us at least for a season. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 426
4/11/11 12:18 pm
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | They brought her to David because they knew that’s what the king liked. |
Here is an example of reading into it what you want to read into it. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
4/11/11 12:24 pm
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| and another thing |
bonnie knox |
It is denigrating to women to say, "they had a problem with women" or "they had a problem with the ladies."
If a man has a problem with lust, selfishness, entitlement, or abuse of power ought to be called what it is and not blamed on the female gender.
Last edited by bonnie knox on 4/11/11 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
4/11/11 12:55 pm
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| a quote from Tom Sterbens |
bonnie knox |
usefull, your original question was, if I understand it, how can pastors and ABs have affairs - what are they thinking?
About a month ago, Tom Sterbens posted this, which I dug back out because I think it will help answer your question.
Entitlement and the Absence of Time Spent With God and the Word
I have either talked with extensively or counseled probably 30 guys who have done this (albeit not just with their assistant). In my personal experience these two things are recurrent...
Common to all of them is a sense of self entitlement regarding "happiness." They deserved to be happy. God would want them happy. And so they pursue "happy" on their own terms. In the end it is just pride.
As a result, they becomes convinced that their problem is unique. Seriously. Please don't just read right by that one. They really think that their problem is so complex, distinct, exclusive, that the remedy available to the majority (even biblical and spiritual remedy) will not work for them. indeed this is just another manifestation of the pride/entitlement issue, but the deception of this aspect creates an almost hypnotic state.
Second, I have been amazed...really amazed at the recurring confession/acknowledgment of absence of time spent with God and the Word. And for many, if not the majority, the Word became hardly more than a tool of the trade.
As overly simplistic as the next statement will sound, here it is: They fell out of love with God. In almost every instance the primary difficulty and objective was to get them to passionately embrace God's Word as the final declaration concerning "wholeness" of life and subsequent function or behavior (substitution terminology for holiness and righteousness).
What I've offered is certainly subjective, in terms of being my personal experience with these situations.
~~~ Tom Sterbens ~~~ |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
4/11/11 1:06 pm
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| Re: and another thing |
Cojak |
| bonnie knox wrote: | It is denigrating to women to say, "they had a problem with women" or "they had a problem with the ladies."
If a man has a problem with lust, selfishness, entitlement, or abuse of power ought to be called what it is and not blamed on the female gender. |
Amen Bonnie!
Goes all the way back, she caused me to...... Sometimes we men can be so dishonest.
Blame.... One thing I am sick of in church and government. Give me someone to blame and all is well.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24285
4/11/11 1:29 pm
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Stay Strong |
[quote="bonnie knox"] | Quote: | Stay Strong, I'd be interested in your take on why you think King David committed adultery. As the prophet Nathan pointed, King David didn't steal the poor man's little ewe lamb because he was suffering from want of sheep. He had plenty.
Of course, you might be describing Bathsheba, "Aw, my husband never has time for me; he's always off fighting one of those wars!" |
I think David had a spoiled little brat moment. I think his power got to him so strongly that he had reached a point that he could have what he wanted and took advantage of that. Many people do this due to abuse of power. Take professional athletes for example. When they arrive at their hotel they can have the pick of women as each one has several wanting to be with them for the night. That's abuse of power. For the athlete who wants to stay faithful to their wife, this is a tough temptation, but one has to walk above it.
Likewise, in a marriage where either spouse is not getting what they want they need to seek the help of marital counseling or personal counseling before they seek their selfish needs with someone of the opposite sex. Most of the incidence of adultery in the people I've known personally, the offending spouse usually states the reason of not getting statisfaction as their reason for going out of the marriage. I'm not making them into the victim, they are the offending party, but adultery is usually the resulting earthquake of a major fault line that's been in the marriage. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 226
4/11/11 2:01 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
In Ps 51 David prayed "have MERCY on me O God...thou desiredst TRUTH in the inward parts...create in me A CLEAN HEART, O God and RENEW a RIGHT spirit within me...purge me...wash me..."
David knew he needed to have a cleansed, purged, changed heart and mind by way of repentance, just like any of us do if we sin.
We don't hear David saying anything even close to, "Lord you know I really do love you, I just have a problem with women. You understand, don't you Lord?" |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
4/11/11 2:12 pm
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Lee Roy Brown |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | In Ps 51 David prayed "have MERCY on me O God...thou desiredst TRUTH in the inward parts...create in me A CLEAN HEART, O God and RENEW a RIGHT spirit within me...purge me...wash me..."
David knew he needed to have a cleansed, purged, changed heart and mind by way of repentance, just like any of us do if we sin.
We don't hear David saying anything even close to, "Lord you know I really do love you, I just have a problem with women. You understand, don't you Lord?" |
I’m not saying I believe you can live how you want. I believe that our sins will find us out. I just believe that God still blesses and uses people that many of us would write off. The prayer that David prayed is one that I would expect from a person that is truly sorry. It’s one that I have heard hundreds of times. I have heard people pray sincere prayers telling God they were sorry, telling God they would never do it again. Many people get free but some pray prayers just like David prayed and yet get sucked back into things. Some of these people are talented and highly anointed people. I think the more you think you know about God the less you really know about him. Listen David’s family had a problem with chasing after women (BTW miss Bonnie it takes two to tango), a problem with lust. Call it generational, call it situational, call it what you want but they had some real issues.
All you deep theologians wouldn’t go over good in my church. So let me say it in a way that would work for my people. God uses and blesses messed up people, God uses and blesses messed up people that we write off. God wants these people to change but some of these messed up people take years to change. God still uses these messed up people. I know I’m one of them.
NO I haven’t had an affair. I’m just a messed up person  .
PS: Bonnie sometimes you have to reason through scripture. They could have brought David a lot of different things to try to warm him up but they brought him a women hmmmmm |
Friendly Face
Posts: 426
4/11/11 3:06 pm
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