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To Alan Waggoner |
COG Blessed |
God bless you for posting the truth!!!! |
Friendly Face Posts: 160 9/15/10 6:49 pm
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I Agree |
allears |
With Alan Wagoner |
Friendly Face Posts: 456 9/15/10 8:35 pm
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who discipled the previous AB? |
Mighty Army |
same philosophy of COG leadership entitlement |
Friendly Face Posts: 326 9/15/10 11:26 pm
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Not That It Matters |
mytwocents |
But I thought the minutes limited the amount of bonuses, perks, etc. that the State Council could give an AB??
What has been reported here borders on criminally insane. No wonder Travis and other Florida guys are so anti-establishment in their rhetoric. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 813 9/16/10 7:56 am
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If Not There Should Be |
Alan Wagoner |
I have no idea whether or not the Minutes limits the amount of money a state can give the Overseer but it certainly ought to. I am certain however that he must report any and all gifts to the IRS. The state office has a legal responsibility to report those gifts as income. |
Friendly Face Posts: 172 9/16/10 5:35 pm
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I Am Wondering |
mytwocents |
If rather than giving him two cars they just let him assume the payments and or leases on them. That would make more sense. Please let that be the case. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 813 9/17/10 6:40 am
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had to come back from the living for this one |
aprilmay |
keep in mind that NONE of these accusations are proven. if they are true then some people have some answering to do. if not then I believe a permanent ban should be considered for the author of the thread and those who participate in the libel. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1267 9/17/10 7:21 am
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None Proven But None Denied Either |
CentFLPstr |
Quote: | keep in mind that NONE of these accusations are proven. if they are true then some people have some answering to do. if not then I believe a permanent ban should be considered for the author of the thread and those who participate in the libel. |
Most of the "accusations" posted here are a matter of record and have never been denied by an AB or the State Council.
For example.
1. Jimmy D. Smith's Broadway trip for the staff and council was widely known at the time.
2. The $36,000 Ponzi scheme also widely known at the time. The council claims they approved it contingent upon the approval of the COG legal team. It was never approved by the attorney but spent and lost anyhow.
3. The money donated by a prominent Florida family for the use of the Florida Church of God was definately used by JDS to purchase a personal condo. According to AB Donnie Smith it was not paid back until he complained to the EC.
JDS in his acceptance speech at the General Assembly in Orlando stated he had made many mistakes in Florida but Florida had forgiven him. Yet he has never asked Florida to forgive him.
It is a matter of record that the Council gave Brother Taylor a new Tahoe before he left Florida.
I have heard no one who would know the facts in Florida deny either the Broadway trip, Ponzi loss, condo purchase, gift of the Tahoe or borrowing $150,000 from a local church to pay bills.
The present AB of Florida has stated that there is no money left in Florida.
This would be a great time for the new AB to make a full disclosure to the COG members and ministers in Florida. |
Friendly Face Posts: 193 9/17/10 8:38 am
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make the call..... |
Joe Nail |
dave ramsey could teach us a thing ot two.... _________________ all that counts is your faith showing itself in love. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1904 9/17/10 1:57 pm
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Re: The Reason For The Drop In Tithe of Tithe |
theedmister |
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You can't possibly be suggesting that it would be better to keep the church people in the dark about waste, mismanagement, or abuse of funds at the state level, can you???? Ignorance is bliss, but happiness is overrated.
Accountability is such a beautiful, beautiful thing!! |
I think anyone that gives has a right to know. Yet I guess I am trying to figure out when this would actually come up in a conversation, or church meeting.
I believe that if the accusations are proven then they need to be dealt with. If Florida does not deal with them then they need to let it go. There is a process yet somebody has to be willing to follow it and risk their name. If not then let it go.
Yet my goal is to keep the integrity of the church I pastor. My responsibility, that is what is first. God will judge the others.
And yes I believe there is some truth, I just think people would rather talk about it than deal with it. |
Friendly Face Posts: 231 9/18/10 3:21 pm
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Some Have Tried To Deal With It |
Clyde Walker |
There were lots of complaints given to Donnie Smith who followed Jimmy D. Smith to Florida. He took it to the Executive Committee who sent Jimmy and T. L. Lowery to Florida to meet with him. He claimed the Council authorized him to spend the $36,000 on the Ponzi Scheme. They deny it however. The perpetrator of the scheme is now in a federal prison for bilking ignorant and greedy people out of their money.
Since Jimmy D. was going to get a loan and return the condo money to the State funds nothing was done about it. Donnie Smith was told to drop it by the EC.
Jimmy has continued to get general appointments and elections to this day. |
Friendly Face Posts: 117 9/18/10 6:15 pm
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Re: Some Have Tried To Deal With It |
theedmister |
Clyde Walker wrote: | There were lots of complaints given to Donnie Smith who followed Jimmy D. Smith to Florida. He took it to the Executive Committee who sent Jimmy and T. L. Lowery to Florida to meet with him. He claimed the Council authorized him to spend the $36,000 on the Ponzi Scheme. They deny it however. The perpetrator of the scheme is now in a federal prison for bilking ignorant and greedy people out of their money.
Since Jimmy D. was going to get a loan and return the condo money to the State funds nothing was done about it. Donnie Smith was told to drop it by the EC.
Jimmy has continued to get general appointments and elections to this day. |
If the council authorized it then there would be minutes. That would be easy.
I believe there were a lot of complaints but every system has checks and balances and that goes beyond the overseer. Just have finish out the process and not let a friend of the accuser deal with it.
I say all of this because I walked into a very similar situation in a church I pastored. For many years I heard about what someone stole. I saw evidence but not enough proof. It happened 4 years before I came to the church. They could have pushed it but didn't so I told the church it was time to move on. Nobody wanted to be the bad guy and fight this all the way.
I think it is time to move on. Florida has a great overseer now. Pay your tithe of tithe and help the state. |
Friendly Face Posts: 231 9/18/10 10:16 pm
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ok. so what? |
aprilmay |
did Jimmy make mistakes? yes but his indiscretion might have totaled $210k.
Taylor gave over a million to clermont all because he had to defend his decision to place the pastor there. the guy wasn't/isn't qualified and to keep it from sinking the COG paid the mortgage.
Last edited by aprilmay on 9/21/10 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1267 9/19/10 7:21 pm
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Big Difference Between JD Smith and Taylor |
Nuffsed |
I never heard anyone say that Brother Taylor took any church funds for personal use. |
Friendly Face Posts: 100 9/20/10 4:51 pm
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more than a Million! |
iknownothing |
I thought it was over 2 million that was given to Celebration of Praise.
Last edited by iknownothing on 9/20/10 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Friendly Face Posts: 380 9/20/10 6:27 pm
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I am convinced |
GuideOne |
That the state overseer of Florida including Jimmy Smith, Donnie Smith, Martin Taylor did what ever they wanted. Also, that the State Council now serving backs them in their bad judgement.
It may be stupid, bad judgement, mistakes, not up to the job. It does not matter. The Executive Committee has decided to allow them latitude.
After all, it is a big state......Im not sure anyone on the state council has really taken a look at what is called a "budget."
Someone better give an account or there is going to be less money coming to the state fund. |
Friendly Face Posts: 296 9/20/10 8:10 pm
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georgiapath |
It's a shame that so called leaders can't be trusted. |
Acts-dicted Posts: 7591 9/21/10 4:15 am
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cog3g |
It's a shame that the actions of a few men make the actions of all ABs suspect. |
Member Posts: 27 9/21/10 8:56 am
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FellowSoldier |
UNBELIEVABLE!! What frustrates me about this is there are no consequences for men that have obviously mismanaged money that was never their's in the first place.(Mismanaged is probably to kind a term when felony fraud may be more appropriate)
Then on top of that the State council sits by and quietly let's it ride. When the EC gets word they sweep it under the rug. All of this from an organization that claims: "We believe that holiness is God's standard of living for His peoplem." I contend that we really don't believe jack!!
If this were a fortune 500 company with a CEO doing the same junk we would be talking prison time. Are we really at the place where the world has higher standards than the church? _________________ Your Fellow Soldier |
Friendly Face Posts: 403 9/21/10 10:16 am
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FellowSoldier |
UNBELIEVABLE!! What frustrates me about this is there are no consequences for men that have obviously mismanaged money that was never their's in the first place.(Mismanaged is probably to kind a term when felony fraud may be more appropriate)
Then on top of that the State council sits by and quietly let's it ride. When the EC gets word they sweep it under the rug. All of this from an organization that claims: "We believe that holiness is God's standard of living for His peoplem." I contend that we really don't believe jack!!
If this were a fortune 500 company with a CEO doing the same junk we would be talking prison time. Are we really at the place where the world has higher standards than the church? _________________ Your Fellow Soldier |
Friendly Face Posts: 403 9/21/10 10:19 am
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