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 I've posted on this many times |
exile824 |
but why not try again?
There must be reverence and order in a worship service. If we continually allow our services to be held hostage by people who are emotional roller coasters, we will not appeal to the unsaved.
Pentecost lends itself to emotionalism. Doesn't the "screaming" issue sound eerily familiar with primal scream therapy? Why do they feel better after they do it? They are physically spent and their body has released endorphins which have a soothing effect. Same thing I get after a tough workout at the gym.
True Pentecost glorifies Christ Jesus, not individuals and results in conversions. Day of Pentecost, 3,000 saved. Philip the evangelist and Etheopian, 1 saved.
The more we have stressed order and adhering to I Cor. 14 in our church, the more growth we have seen with stable, progressive Christians who are learning the true essence of being filled with the Holy Spirit, which is Gal. 4:19, "until Christ is formed in you"
One more quote: "Pentecost is a religion of exhibitionists and voyeurs."
Consider this, when Elijah faced down the proponents of Baal on Mt. Carmel, weren't they screaming, leaping, dancing...etc? Kind of sounds like a Pentecostal service doesn't it?
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relax, life is better with sand between your toes |
Friendly Face
Posts: 467
12/3/08 11:27 am
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Kyle Morrow |
| So was the church at Camp Creek a bunch of crazies. Was that emtional? What about Psalm 150, Praise the Lord with dancing. I believe the Word should be preached and churches should have order. But if we are scheduled to sing 4 songs and the Spirit interrupts on the 2nd song, then he is welcome to do that. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
12/3/08 11:31 am
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| It is perfectly reasonable to use our |
exile824 |
God-given emotions to worship God.
But we are called to a maturity where we are not controlled by those emotions. I have nothing against any tenant of Psalm 150. I dance ok for a 40-something white dude, (my wife might disagree)
I'm talking about worship services being hi-jacked by people who need an emotional fix once a week.
Pastors are called to train people out of foolishness and build stable, healthy, mature Christians who in turn build stable, healthy and mature churches.
Pentecost is about winning the lost
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relax, life is better with sand between your toes |
Friendly Face
Posts: 467
12/3/08 11:37 am
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Kyle Morrow |
| That's whay a Pastor needs discernment and wisdom to shut down anyone who is getting out of order. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
12/3/08 11:44 am
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| I agree |
exile824 |
However, those "shut-downs" kill the good with the bad.
I know you think I'm not even Pentecostal by my posts, but I am.
My point is, why be traffic cops when we can coach people into mature living. Try this, teach a series on I Cor. 14 and see if it doesn't bless your church. You won't quench the Spirit, you're honoring Him by obeying the Word He wrote.
Teach them what Paul said about people thinking they're crazy because they're all speaking in tongues out loud at once. I had a lady, raised in Pentecost mind you, who told me she had never heard that before.
Incidentally, we don't use the P word in our church anymore. We say Spirit-filled. In the Bible-belt South, the word Pentecostal scares people.
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relax, life is better with sand between your toes |
Friendly Face
Posts: 467
12/3/08 12:00 pm
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| Re: No - 1000 times No |
Pastorscog |
| DoubtingNimrod wrote: | Everything that God has done has been in order.
None of the "outward displays" such as running, shouting, falling out in the floor, rolling around and other displays can be proven in the Bible as a display of the Holy Spirit and neither should they be used to say that a person is spiritual or not spiritual.
Jesus never did any of this. The Apostles never did any of this. The Early Church never did any of this. These are just carnal displays of the flesh that draws attention away from God and places the attention on the person.
We should be looking for the "Fruit of the Spirit" and the "Gifts of the Spirit" in the life of the Believer - not if they shout, hoop, hollar and flop around on the floor like a fish.
This is the problem with Pentecost. None of these outward displays that Pentecostals claim as identifiers of Pentecost are scriptural - not one. Just because you see some one doing it does not make it Biblical. We should not form doctrinal stands on these issues or judge people becuause they do not do them. |
Doubting,
We would be foolish to believe the disciples recorded every worship service they had in scripture. Not to say Scripture is wrong, but who are we who are living close to 2000 years later to say how it was in their worship services. Granted, I'm sure it was not structured like our's are currently, but who are we to say they did not happen then.
It simply seems to be nothing but a personal preference in a lot of views on here. However, I have this to offer, the Bible implies over and over God created our emotions. If we believe God created our emotions how come our emotions cannot praise God. Sometimes it seems we are so high and mighty we act as if we want people to sit down and shut up so we can give them our intellect. Paul said, He did not come with man's wisdom but with the demonstration and power of the Holy Ghost. When the Holy Ghost gets on people they will not help but get emotional. JMHO. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 319
12/3/08 12:08 pm
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COGLayman |
| bump |
Friendly Face
Posts: 256
1/18/09 7:30 pm
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| Its all about balance!!!!!!!! |
SkyPilot |
In everything we do it is about balance. Experiencing the power of a Holy Ghost moment that causes us to run around hanging from the lights... and behaving in such a way that there is no confusion...but only order.
There can be Holy Ghost worship with order. There has to be, Paul tells us that it is required that ll be in order, but yet we have the model of Acts 2 where it was perceived they were drunk.
It is all about the balance....
Balance in worship...
Balance in work...
Balance in activity...
Balance in diet...
Balance in all things.
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Pax,
Skypilot |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 849
1/18/09 7:41 pm
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Crawl-Daddy |
The congregation will follow the leader. The pastor and the people he or she has set in place to conduct a church service set the tone. The personality of the church will resemble the personality of the leader. No doubt that takes time. Its a part of training and coaching and being a shepherd.
If of course the leader is weak in keeping order and unsure himself about the concept, a free-for-all may ensue. Probably will be hijacked. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 306
1/18/09 8:55 pm
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PureGold |
Possibly we need to understand that what we call emotionalism is often one's response to God, and He desires response. We also need to understand what/how these responses effect the lie of the respondee (my word..lol.) God uses these responses to bring freedom. He delivers, liberates and heals the soul of man and often the emotional response promoted by the spirit is part of the act of receiving. These responses may not be so much an act of worship as they are an act of receiving from God.
I do believe there should be some scriptural bases for what a person does even in response though. Possibly the screaming lady is operating in the flesh, or simply overwhelmed with the what she was feeling/sensing.
The problem I see with we pentecostals is, we accept something without teaching. When I was growing up in pentecost I was told I needed to be baptized in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, and yet no one seem to know the purpose or power of tongues. Once I was taught the purpose and power speaking in tongues became part of my daily life without hesitation. I know what why I speak with tongues. And to answer the age old question, yes I can speak in tongues at anytime. I was taught it was only as the Holy Spirit wills and unctions, yet know one seemed to no that He wills and unctions 24/7. HELLO!
Possibly we should learn what the purpose and fruit of responding to HIM is all about. If we teach our people we will never have to shut them down, they will know what is scriptural and be totally free to respond. Teach them what is spirit and what is flesh or demonic. They also will not be bound by mans opinion of "emotionalism," but will walk in liberty to worship/respond, and yield their self freely to manifestation of the Spirit. Teaching is vital on these elements.
If we are hungry for REVIVAL we cannot be afraid of manifestations because they are always a part of an outpouring. We simply must discern and teach what is of God and what is NOT.
Just my two cents!
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Thank You God for never telling me a lie! |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1057
3/3/10 11:37 am
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