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For Pastor Gary - Is Allah God? |
Porpoise Driven Neptune |
This question was raised by Pastor Gary in response to a post of mine on the Seeker Friendly Forum. I didn't want to hijack that thread and thought it probably belonged here on the main board.
I had expressed a view that missionaries must not cross the line between contextualization & compromise. As an example I mentioned the issue of calling God 'Allah' in Islamic countries as straying into compromise. Gary mentioned that he had heard an opposing view.
Pastor Gary, there are many missionaries & Christians in the Islamic world who do use the name 'Allah' to refer to God. However, others are realizing that 'Allah' carries too much Mulim baggage & actually obscures an effective presentation of the Gospel. In the old version of the Turkish Bible (think of a Turkish KJV) 'Allah' was used. But the modern translation uses instead a different Turkish word that simply means 'God'.
I understand that Allah was an Arabic demonic deity connected with moon-worship - but I don't pretend to be an expert on this. Others Acts posters may be able to add more to this. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 969 3/18/06 11:43 am
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From the Catholic Encylopedia |
notwanghere |
Allah
The name of God in Arabic. It is a compound word from the article, 'al, and ilah, divinity, and signifies "the god" par excellence. This form of the divine name is in itself a sure proof that ilah was at one time an appellative, common to all the local and tribal gods. Gradually, with the addition of the article, it was restricted to one of them who took precedence of the others; finally, with the triumph of monotheism, He was recognized as the only true God. In one form or another this Hebrew root occurs in all Semitic languages as a designation of the Divinity; but whether it was originally a proper name, pointing to a primitive monotheism, with subsequent deviation into polytheism and further rehabilitation, or was from the beginning an appellative which became a proper name only when the Semites had reached monotheism is a much debated question. It is certain, however, that before the time of Mohammed, owing to their contact with Jews and Christians, the Arabs were generally monotheists. The notion of Allah in Arabic theology is substantially the same as that of God among the Jews, and also among the Christians, with the exception of the Trinity, which is positively excluded in the Koran, cxii: "Say God, is one God, the eternal God, he begetteth not, neither is he begotten and there is not any one like unto him." His attributes denied by the heterodox Motazilites, are ninety-nine in number. Each one of them is represented by a bead in the Moslem chaplet, while on the one hundredth and larger bead, the name of Allah itself is pronounced. It is preposterous to assert with Curtiss (Ursemitische Religion, 119) that the nomadic tribes of Arabia, consider seriously the Oum-el-Gheith, "mother of the rain", as the bride of Allah and even if the expression were used such symbolical language would not impair, in the least, the purity of monotheism held by those tribes. (Cf. Revue Biblique, Oct., 1906, 580 sqq.) Let it be noted that although Allah is an Arabic term, it is used by all Moslems, whatever be their language, as the name of God. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1794 3/18/06 2:28 pm
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Another perspective (L) |
notwanghere |
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Allah is not God in any language |
Travis Johnson |
I remember taking a Spanish class at Lee and came across a word in the text book something like "Ojala." Basically, it is similar to "Oh, my god" or "Oh, my gosh!"
I cringe when I hear it. Personally, I don't care what the technical meaning is because I hate that word. It is called out over innocent people as they are dismembered. That's simply a word, I refuse to dabble in or contextualize. I'm always up for dialogue. But, even thinking about it makes me queezy because of all it represents. |
Acts-dicted Posts: 7821 3/18/06 2:42 pm
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Re: For Pastor Gary - Is Allah God? |
Pastor Gary |
Porpoise Driven Neptune wrote: | Pastor Gary, there are many missionaries & Christians in the Islamic world who do use the name 'Allah' to refer to God. However, others are realizing that 'Allah' carries too much Mulim baggage & actually obscures an effective presentation of the Gospel. In the old version of the Turkish Bible (think of a Turkish KJV) 'Allah' was used. But the modern translation uses instead a different Turkish word that simply means 'God'. |
So the information I had received was not incorrect, but may have been incomplete.
I understand the issue, as we have faced it a bit in Hawaii. Most Hawaiian Christians use the word "Akua" to describe God. It is really a more generic word for "Diety" or "god" (little "g")-- and is too close for comfort to Aumakua, which means "family god." Some Hawaiian families have a shark, or a hawk or other animal as a "family god." They don't worship the animal, but see it as a protective spirit assigned to them. Recent research has uncovered a surpressed or hidden name for God: ‘Io. It is reflected in the name of the royal palace, ‘Iolani Palace. Lani refers to the heavens, and ‘Io was the name the ancient Hawaiians used for the creator God. Now worship songs are being written in Hawaiian using the name ‘Io.
You are probably aware of the reason Korea, a very Asian nation, is one of the most Christian nations on earth, while Japan, another very Asian nation, has less than 2% Christians. When the Methodists and the Presbyterians divided up the globe for mission purposes they adopted a comity plan; they would go in nations as led, but if a church was planted in nation "A" it would be Presbyterian, in nation "B" Methodist, etc. The people who went into Korea listened and asked questions… "What do you believe? Who do you worship? etc." They learned that the Koreans had a name for the God who created everything, the supreme Diety -- Hananim- (The Great One). Like the Apostle Paul dealing with a statue to "the unknown God" the missionaries wisely said "We have come to tell you all about Hananim!"
The missionaries to Japan, not quite as wise in my opinion, talked more than they listened and gave the Japanese the idea that everything in their culture was bad, wrong and pagan. They introduced, to the Japanese mind, a western God, a white-man's God, which was promptly rejected by the insular Japanese. To this day we work hard to dispel the notion that accepting Christ is to reject your Japanese culture. Only recently have Christian Missiologists began to use the Japanese equivalent of Hananim, which is Amenominakanushi - the God in the glorious center of Heaven. The Shinto followers and others also use the same name, but Japanese Christians have found greater receptivity to their message by calling God Amenominakanushi than by a western loan-word name. _________________ I reserve the right to own my words and thoughts without edits. |
Acts Mod Posts: 3530 3/18/06 5:45 pm
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Arabic word for God |
nugeme |
The Arabic Bible uses Allah for God. Having preached extensively in Egyptian churches, it is commonly used. However, you hear another word used just as much ( never used by Muslims) and that is what sounds like "la rub" - it is the word "Lord". Also heard is Yasuah ( Jesus) - again, different from the word Muslims use for Jesus which is Issa. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 918 3/18/06 7:18 pm
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Allah means God |
Ichthus77 |
Yes, Allah is just the arabic word for God, just like Dios in spanish and Dieu in French and Gott in german. Before monotheism came about in these countries, the word may have pagan linguistic roots, but then so does "Gott" in German if you trace it back far enough to its germanic tribal roots it is also originated in some tribal pagan god, but Gott has the same roots as our word "God" in english.
The name of the COG in arabic speaking countries is "Church of Allah"
and the word God is translated Allah in the Arabic Bible.
"Ojalá" in Spanish means "I hope so" or "may it be so" and is literally "God willing" or "Allah willing". It comes from the moors' domination of Spain for over 500 years. The thing the murderous beheaders say is "allah ak bar" (sp.?) and means "God be praised" or "God is Great", don't remember which.
Ichthus |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1270 3/18/06 8:03 pm
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Allah is Arabic and Indonesian for God |
Link |
What is so holy about the English word 'god.' Isn't the history of that word equally tied up with paganism.
I studied Arabic in college. I live in Indonesia, and I call God 'Allah' as does the Indonesian Bible. Some of the Muslims here use the Arabic velarized vowel in the first vowel of 'Allah' which sounds like 'Ollah', which Christians don't generally do.
The word for 'Lord' in the Indonesian Bible actually means 'God', which creates innacurracy in the translation. Indonesian, like Malaysian, came from the language of the Malayu people. I guess 50 years or go, it was more or less the same language. Now the languages are quite different. They use the same words with different meanings. In Malaysia, it is illegal for Christians to call God 'Allah' in Bible translations. It would be interesting to learn what they use. I think 'Tuhan' would be a good word for it.
There are some fanatics here trying to tell Indonesians to call God 'Elohim' instead of 'Allah.' I met someone who heard this who couldn't pray the Lord's prayer anymore without feeling guilty. Fortunately, this weak-conscience-producing teaching is not widespread. I am against this teaching. I thought about writing a counter-tract. A friend of mine wrote abook on this subject, which I haven't read yet.
Was 'Allah' the name of an Arabic moon deity? My friend concludes that the moon deity and 'Allah' were at least closely related in the Arabic mind. But 'Allah' was also the name Jews and Christians used for God. It is now, in Arabic.
If 'Allah' was used for the moon deity in Sabea (Sheba, perhaps modern day Yemen) does that mean Christians shouldn't use it? I think the situation is comparable to the use of 'El' in Hebrew and Canaanite. 'El' is a word for 'God' or 'gods' in Hebrew. But the Canaanites in Ugarit had a god they called 'el' who was the head of their pantheon who got drunk and fell in his own excrement or vomit in one of their stories (I forget which.) The Canaanite concept of God may have been different from the true concept. But that did not keep God from calling Himself 'El.' Perhaps the Canaanites had some knowledge that 'El' was God Most High passed down from Noah, but added other gods and goddesses below God in their mythology, and also warped their understanding of what God Most High is like. The city of Salem, later called Jabus, later called Jerusalem had a priest and king called Melchizedek who worshipped El-Elyon, God Most High.
The Samaritans also would have called God 'El' or 'Elohim.' Jesus told them 'Ye worship ye know not what.' Would the Samaritan use of the same word make it wrong to call God 'El.' Of course not. Does the Canaanite use of 'El' make it an illegitimate word for God.
One theory is that 'Allah' comes from 'Al ilah' and is a contracted form of that. The 'il' in 'illah' is believed to be cognate with 'el' in 'Elohim.' 'Al' means 'the.' So 'Allah' means 'the God' if this is correct. As far as I know, this derivation is one supported by some historical linguistics theorists.
Another possible derivation is that 'Allah' comes from the Aramaic word 'Alaha.' This is a word that Aramaic Christians use for God as well.
It is believed that Jews and Christians before Muhammad called God 'Allah.' They certainly do today. The Christians of this era did not leave a paper trail for us, so I have not been able to prove this concretely. It is interesting to note that 'Abudallah' or 'servant of Allah'/'servant of God' was a common Arab Christian baptized name BEFORE Muhammad. One of the people who brought the Gospel to the Arabs was name Abdullah. So it is possible that Christians were named after him. I would think it a bit unlikely for his name to be a common baptized name if it were inherently pagan. For example, Apollos was an early saint, but his name was so pagan. How many other Christians were named after him in the early centuries of Christianity? How many second-generation Christians were named Dyonisis after the early Christian in Athens? It makes sense that Christians would name their kids 'Abdullah' if 'Allah' was their word for God at that time, however.
If you say that Allah is not God, you create a number of problems. Teaching Arab and Indonesian Christians this creates confusion and a weak conscience. It can also make it quite difficult to evangelize. Generally missionaries who seem to be meeting with success find common ground, as Paul tried to do when he preached even with pagans. There is a lot of common ground with Islam. Christ is to be the future judge in Islam. Paul taught that God would judge all men by the Man He has chosen. Pointing out to a Muslim that, according to hadith (oral tradition about Muhammad's sayings) that he must stand before 'Isa/Jesus on the day of judgment is a way of making him motivated to learn Christ's teachings.
Some Islamic teachings line up with OT teachings. Though they do not have the same level of law that the Torah offers, in terms of quality, justice, righteousness, etc., imo, what they do have is enough to show them guilty before God. I once overheard two Muslim co-workers of mine saying that they thought Islamic law was the way to go in this country. I asked one of them if he had ever stolen anything. With a look of shame, he said yes. He was a 'good Muslim' as far as they go, praying dilligently five times a day.
Later, I realized this was an evangelistic opportunity. I went out to lunch with him. I asked him to put his hand on the table. Then I got out a fork and offered to perforate his hand at the wrist for him and tear it off, so that he would not have it before the day of judgment. I referred to a hadith in which Muhammad said to a woman who had stolen a sheet that when her hands was removed she would be as innocent as she was the day she was born.
I did not know this, but he believed each body part would testify on the day of judgment. I also argued against the idea of sins being weighed against good deeds in a scale, saying that Christ taught that when we have done what we are supposed to do, we should say that we are unprofitable servants. We have only done what we should do. We don't get sins erased for doing good works if we were made for good works in the first place. We also discussed the deity of Christ. I pointed out that the Koran calls Christ God's word. I also pointed out that Christ would be the judge on the day of judgment. He didn't break down and repent right there, but it was a good conversation.
The Al Koran is positive toward the Torah, Psalms, and Gospel. Later Muslim, who actually got around to reading these books and saw the differences between them and the Al Koran came up with the theory that these books were corrupted by Christians. But the Koran does not teach this.
Muslims believe in Abraham and have 12 historical prophets that correspond to Biblical figures (not all identified as prophets in scripture). They have a bunch of myths instead of Bible stories, or distorted Bible stores, particularly about Abraham and some of the others. But at least there is common ground there.
The Egyptian church does have some different names for Jesus and other things like that. But remember, they are a different people group from the Arabs, and used to have their own language, Coptic, which evolved from Ancient Egyptian. Coptic is a cultural, as well as religious identity. So if they use different words, keep the fact that they have another language for church liturgy that has influenced them.
I wouldn't call God 'Allah' in English. It is a foreign word, so using it sounds like referring to a foreign god. Muslims call God 'Allah' in English because the Koran says 'Allah' is the name of God. Muslims pray in Arabic and they tend to favor studying the Koran in Arabic. There are translations though.
To Gary,
which island of Hawaii are you on? _________________ Link |
Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 3/18/06 8:35 pm
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Re: Allah is Arabic and Indonesian for God |
Pastor Gary |
Link wrote: | To Gary,
which island of Hawaii are you on? |
I live on Oahu. As an aside -- I just returned from Singapore, and while there I visited one of my members who is a student at Bethany School of Missions. Do you have any connection with them? Also, are you acquainted with COGOP's man in Indonesia, Bishop Zebua? Very good man. _________________ I reserve the right to own my words and thoughts without edits. |
Acts Mod Posts: 3530 3/18/06 8:47 pm
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Wow Link! |
notwanghere |
Good stuff. Thank-you for the time spent in posting that great explanation. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1794 3/18/06 11:07 pm
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Link- several mistakes |
nugeme |
You had several things incorrect in your post. I will address two:
1. You said Muslims believe Christ will come ads a final judge. That is not true. They believe the "hidden Imam" will come and it is not Issa.
2. You said Quran is positive toward the Gospel. Not true. Quran plainly says God has no son. It plainly says Jesus did not die on the cross, nor did He arise from the dead. Quran plainly says " take to yourselves as friends christians and jews....."
I could go on and on. I just finished my second reading of Quran. You can point any similarities you wish - the fact remains it is a false religion and was fabricated to take men to hell. |
Acts-celerater Posts: 918 3/19/06 12:53 pm
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correction |
nugeme |
I should have typed " take NOT to yourselves jews and christians...." too busy and typing too fast - sorry! |
Acts-celerater Posts: 918 3/19/06 12:54 pm
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Re: For Pastor Gary - Is Allah God? |
notwanghere |
I rembmember in 1960. My Dad had a book on Islam. That night he was talking to some Church folk (that was in the day when children were to be seen and not heard). He said that he believed the greatest threat to freedom would rise out of Islam. |
Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1794 3/19/06 8:22 pm
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the Judge |
Link |
nugeme wrote: | You had several things incorrect in your post. I will address two:
1. You said Muslims believe Christ will come ads a final judge. That is not true. They believe the "hidden Imam" will come and it is not Issa.
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From what the contextual m'naries around here say, the belief that Christ will be a/the Judge at the end of time is an Islamic belief. I do not know if it is a minority belief or widespread. It is based on two hadith (not the Koran) in which Muhammad is reported to have said that 'Isa will judge you (his audience).
Quote: |
2. You said Quran is positive toward the Gospel. Not true. Quran plainly says God has no son. It plainly says Jesus did not die on the cross, nor did He arise from the dead. Quran plainly says " take to yourselves as friends christians and jews....."
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You are obviously more familiar with the specifics of the Kuran that I am. One Arab, for Mslim, fellow here used to say the word for 'son' in the Arabic confession that God had no son refers specifically to physical offspring (walad, I think it was) and that the Christian confession is that Christ is God's Son ('ibn.)
I am not arguing that Islam is correct. These are commonalities contextual m'naries point out to encourage interest in the Gospel or in studying scripture. Some go to far and try to synthesize beliefs, which, imo, produces confusion in converts, when it does produce converts, if it does.
Quote: |
I could go on and on. I just finished my second reading of Quran. You can point any similarities you wish - the fact remains it is a false religion and was fabricated to take men to hell. |
I am not disagreeing with you.
I spoke with one missionary here who seemed to think Muhammad might have been on the right track, at least at first, and either got seduced by politics later on, or else his works were corrupted. But later I heard this guy was C5 and supported for the sychretist type ministries. _________________ Link |
Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 3/21/06 7:27 am
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hidden imam |
Link |
Someone said Muslims believe the hidden imam would be the judge at the end of the age.
i'd heard of the hidden imam before, but couldn't remember who it was supposed to be. Then I remembered.
Muhammad had a cousin, nephew, and son-in-law named Ali (all the same guy.) Ali got passed over a few times for being the ruler of the Muslims after Muhammad died, during a time when Islam became the driving force behind a large empire.
A political/religious party formed behind Ali that became the Shi'ite movement. Ali had two sons named Hasan (beautiful) and Husayn (very beautiful.) They were both sons of Muhammad's daughter Fatima. Both of these boys grew to be men and led rebellions to take over Islamic territory. Both were defeated. Military martyrs of the Shiite movement if you will. The Shi'ites followed a patriarchal succession of these descendants of Ali (descendant's of Muhammad through his daughter.) The majority Sunni's did not. The Sunni's might regard some of the early descendants from this lineage to be Islamic scholars, or at least the fourth one in the lineage.
Eventually, the lineage died out. The 12 or 13th descendant may or may not have existed. He was supposed to have been caught up into heaven. If I remember correctly, he is called the hidden imam.
Muslims will say they are all Muslims and demphasize their differences. But Shi'ites have some different beliefs. They have a longer list of hadith, traditional sayings of Muhammad that Sunni's do not believe in. Much of Islamic teaching comes from these hadith.
Muslims do not even attribute any miracles to Muhammad, except the Koran itself. The Shi'ites say this imam was caught up into heaven. Most Muslims don't believe in any prophets after Muhammad, but the Shi'ites treated the imams almost like Muhammad treated Muhammad.
Shiites are a minority in Islam. I forget the percentages. Maybe 15% or 30%. Iran is mostly Shiite population. Around half of Iraq follows Shi'a as well. Now we hear about Shi'ite mosques, etc. getting bombed. There is a lot of political tension between these two religious groups in Iraq, no doubt.
Most Muslims don't think some Shi'ite leader is going to judge them at the end of time. Most are Sunnis. _________________ Link |
Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11849 4/21/06 9:54 pm
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