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Why we are losing our BRIGHTEST and our BEST
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Post Travis Johnson
Jeremy Self is another COG guy it looks like that we lost to ARC. Great guy. ARC is a great organization. I have developed some decent friendships with a few of those guys. I can understand why a planter would want to be there. But, this is a quality guy, trained by quality COG pastors and professors that should have strong reason to stay in the COG.

He doesn't have a beef with the COG. There just doesn't seem to be a strong enough cause to stay as a church planter in the COG. Twenty years down the road, what will this mean for us?

I am not saying that we are losing all of our guys. We obviously have a lot of great guys that are in it for the long haul. But, we are being cherry picked because of a defunding of mission and an overfunding of administration.
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4/10/07 8:32 pm


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Post KevinLloyd
Travis Johnson wrote:
Jeremy Self is another COG guy it looks like that we lost to ARC. Great guy. ARC is a great organization. I have developed some decent friendships with a few of those guys. I can understand why a planter would want to be there. But, this is a quality guy, trained by quality COG pastors and professors that should have strong reason to stay in the COG.

He doesn't have a beef with the COG. There just doesn't seem to be a strong enough cause to stay as a church planter in the COG. Twenty years down the road, what will this mean for us?

I am not saying that we are losing all of our guys. We obviously have a lot of great guys that are in it for the long haul. But, we are being cherry picked because of a defunding of mission and an overfunding of administration.


T-

Who is Jeremy Self? I haven't met him. Where is he planting?

Kevin
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4/10/07 9:30 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
Austin, TX. Jeremy is salt of the earth. He was in my college ministry at NC, involved evangelism ministry with me at NC, and worked for Chris Goins. He's in seminary in Dallas about to pack up and go. Awesome guy.

But, we can't compete with the focus of groups like ARC. We just aren't thinking in that direction. When I started in marketing, I worked for a four year old company that was breaking ground doing E-bill. We went up against some big companies routinely beating them out for the best accounts. We had a saying, "It's not a matter of the big beating the small. It's a matter of the fast beating the slow."

We're crawling in comparison to some other groups who are insanely focused on mission. We need to turn it around. By the sound of a lot of people who protect the status quo, the jury is still out on whether or not we have the will to do it. I think we like being saddled down with the weight of a thousand pounds of inconsequential busyness.
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4/10/07 9:38 pm


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Post Flip the coin Travis... Grandpa Cleland
How many have left the ARC and came into the COG? I believe that the gate swings both ways...

So far we have named 4 "Brightest" who have left... Can someone name 4 guys who have come into the COG from other organizations... I can name 4 myself...

Grandpa
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4/10/07 10:13 pm


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Post I Haven't Left Yet BV COG
And I don't intend to, so the best and brightest are still in the COG! Very Happy
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4/10/07 10:18 pm


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Post Re: Flip the coin Travis... Travis Johnson
Grandpa Cleland wrote:
How many have left the ARC and came into the COG? I believe that the gate swings both ways...

So far we have named 4 "Brightest" who have left... Can someone name 4 guys who have come into the COG from other organizations... I can name 4 myself...

Grandpa


I never made the statement that our best and brightest are leaving. But, I can think of some stellar guys that are no longer here. Do we make a place for people to do ministry? Yes. Are there some great things about the COG? You better believe it.

But, I'm looking at Steve Saccone, Jeremy Self, Tony Byrd, Tony Brock, Tony Colson, and Kevin Lloyd and I wish we still had them. They are sharp guys. I think we could keep guys like them if we would be a bit more focused on mission. That's all...nothing more.
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4/10/07 10:37 pm


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Post Re: Flip the coin Travis... Travis Johnson
Grandpa Cleland wrote:
How many have left the ARC and came into the COG? I believe that the gate swings both ways...

So far we have named 4 "Brightest" who have left... Can someone name 4 guys who have come into the COG from other organizations... I can name 4 myself...

Grandpa


I don't know of any ARC guys in the COG. They aren't the biggest group in the world. They are just focused on mission and growing like crazy. FYI, they also had an ARC guy on American Idol in Chris Sligh.
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4/10/07 10:39 pm


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Post I agree Grandpa Cleland
I agree Trav... WE NEED TO open things up in the COG. I just know that we have had some pretty great younger guys come in and are doing some innovative stuff... Acts-celerater
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4/10/07 10:46 pm


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Post Re: I agree Travis Johnson
Grandpa Cleland wrote:
I agree Trav... WE NEED TO open things up in the COG. I just know that we have had some pretty great younger guys come in and are doing some innovative stuff...


Grandpa,

We have some older guys that have their finger on the pulse of their community and are reaching and being innovative as well. I do not discount anyone because of age or style.

When there is a trend like negative growth of COG congregations in the USA, we need to ask why. I believe it is because we have completely lost focus of mission and we are being run over by excessive bureaucracy.

When there is a trend of gifted, talented church planters leaving us, we need to ask why. It is partially because, like TheoloJohn said in another post, there is not the same amount of brand loyalty as in years past. But, it is also because some guys that want to plant in the COG are forced to plant through other organizations who are funding mission more heavily. And, unfortunately, we lose some gifted guys because of turf wars and heavy handed leadership. To those guys, we need to go back and apologize for our mistakes and see if they would come back.

We need to make the adjustments where we can to stem that trend. Again, I don't think I'm breaking any new ground in what I'm saying. I think this was outlined in the INJOY report and has been mentioned by guys who are a lot more qualified than me to talk about it effectively.
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4/11/07 10:15 am


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Post Memory and I are still debating which of is... roughridercog
the brightest and which is the best.

But I have it on good authority that neither of us are going anywhere.
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4/11/07 11:36 am


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Post eagle1
http://actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=15162
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Post I left the Church of God in 1977 happytobeback
The reason I left was minor, I was an ordained pastor and started a new 'church of God' with the blessing of the General Overseer. When it came time to bring the fellowship into the Church of God, the powers to be told me that I could not set this church in order. It proved later that the largest Church of God was afraid that the new church would become larger that it and began to complain about the name of the new church, Faith Fellowship Church of God.

I believed then and today I was the one that should have set that congregation in order under the Church of God and today I see all kinds of names on the Church of God.

The General Offices have run a lot of us out, in fact Faith Fellowship Church and did prosper.

I am praying that God will allow pastor who grew up in the church will be allowed to welcomed back.
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4/20/07 6:05 pm


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Post I left the Church of God in 1977 happytobeback
The reason I left was minor, I was an ordained pastor and started a new 'church of God' with the blessing of the General Overseer. When it came time to bring the fellowship into the Church of God, the powers to be told me that I could not set this church in order. It proved later that the largest Church of God was afraid that the new church would become larger that it and began to complain about the name of the new church, Faith Fellowship Church of God.

I believed then and today I was the one that should have set that congregation in order under the Church of God and today I see all kinds of names on the Church of God.

The General Offices have run a lot of us out, in fact Faith Fellowship Church and did prosper.

I am praying that God will allow pastor who grew up in the church will be allowed to welcomed back.
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4/20/07 6:06 pm


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Post Re: Why we are losing our BRIGHTEST and our BEST onetruegod
[quote="YouWillNeverGuessWhoIAm"]Dave Garner wrote in another conversation:

"Kevin,

You sound like so many others on this board....take and take and take..... whatever you can get from the denomination with no real loyalty to the denomination.

I notice you don't mind being listed on the Internationals web site and the fact that as a church plant you are getting financial support from the COG.

In case you don't realize it, it is because of the church I go to and countless others that you even have a place to preach at the present time.

In my opinion, all those on this board who think the COG is meaningless in this present world would serve the rest of us very well if you would only have the courage of your convictions and turn in your credentials and walk!

I challenge you all.....Quit complaining and mouthing your bitter little comments!

Why don't you try WALKING instead of all your meaningless TALKING.

The COG would be better off without you!

Other people on this board who have sincere questions and concerns regarding their own ministries certainly would be better off if they didn't have your garbage spewing out on this board week after week.

I don't need to spell out your names. Each and everyone of you know who I am talking too. Like they say, if the shoe fits wear it!

If things are as bad as you say why do you stay.

It wouldn't be because you can't make it somewhere else without the financial backing of your local congregation, would it?

It wouldn't be because you like getting that regular paycheck and all the perks that go with your present position, would it?

It wouldn't be because you know in your heart that you couldn't make it out in the real world, would it?"



This is precisely why the COG is losing their BRIGHTEST and BEST pastoral leaders (especially the younger ones). It is this "don't complain, just shut up and take it" and if you can't take it then "just leave" attitude that is driving our best leaders from this church.

I believe there is a groundswell of sentiment forming that is demanding some substantive change in the way the COG does certain things and if changes are not made, these BEST and BRIGHTEST will do just that, they will leave.

IF the COG does not change, I predict that ten years from now (if the Lord tarries that long) we will be nothing but a bunch of 50 & 60 year old pastors holding on till we can retire and a FEW young pastors (like Dave Garner) who see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

HOW SAD...[/quote]

Amen! i couldn't agree with you more. somewhere along the line "love" has been lost. people such as this dg poster are precisely the reason younger ministers choose to move on.
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7/29/07 1:20 am


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