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Is Physical Healin Guaranteed in the Atonement?

 
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Post Is Physical Healin Guaranteed in the Atonement? Old Time Country Preacher
It ain't no question at God still heals today. Yep, healin is still real an God still heals in 2024. The question whats more important is, "is physical healin guaranteed for Christian folk 100% of the time?" Acts-pert Poster
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4/3/24 11:06 am


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Post Ok I will bite. Sweethomealabama
When Faith and all the prerequisites the Bible has for healing are fulfilled then I believe so. Hey, DOC
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4/4/24 9:31 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
No, it is nowhere guaranteed in the atonement or anywhere else but Heaven, where the redeemed shall finally suffer no sickness, pain, corruptibility, sin or death ever again. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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4/5/24 7:45 am


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Post Sweethomealabama
https://churchofgod.org/beliefs/declaration-of-faith/

Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement.
Hey, DOC
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4/5/24 9:45 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Sweethomealabama wrote:
https://churchofgod.org/beliefs/declaration-of-faith/

Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement.


Yes, and yet the redeemed remain in mortal and corruptible bodies until the return of Christ, when perfect healing and health shall be forever ours. It is provided for in the atonement, and only guaranteed in the resurrection of the just.
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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4/5/24 9:59 am


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Post Re: Ok I will bite. Sweethomealabama
Sweethomealabama wrote:
When Faith and all the prerequisites the Bible has for healing are fulfilled then I believe so.


Read what I wrote about prerequisites for HEALING. What that means is HEALING is responsibility of the person being healed whether they accept it or not. My people perish for lack of knowledge. This is scriptural because there were instances throughout the New Testament where Jesus would go to the community to heal people, but because of their lack of faith, he could not perform many miracles there. The healing of God is the same thing as the salvation of God it’s something that is received. If someone doesn’t want to be healed or struggles and has a bad doctrine about receiving healing, they’re not gonna be healed. If someone has false doctrine about salvation they’re not gonna receive salvation because they don’t understand it correctly. I would like to know what your thoughts are on TL Osborne, and his book healing the sick. His daughter LaDonna is on the secretary of the board of trustees at ORU. I do not like the image of us, pleading God to heal us like it’s an arm wrestling match between God and Satan. That imagery gives too much credit to the devil the work on the cross is finished. The Devil is a defeated foe he’s lost. He’s done he’s over with. the devil has used that imagery of pleading with God for healing,, in the lives of unbelievers to blame God for sickness and disease. The root of all sickness is the sin curse that came from the fall of man. If you take away the sin curse you take away all Sickness and disease. The root cause of all of this is sin, and if we allow our theology to go to God, being the cause of our sickness and disease, it’s anti-scriptural, and it will cause people to blame God wrongfully for something that is a result of the sickness of the sin curse. The first Adam brought sickness and death. The second Adam redeemed us from the curse of sin, death and saved us on the cross salvation. The gift that must be received in the same way as salvation. HEALING is something that Has to be received.
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4/5/24 4:52 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
The “never die” absurdity has been around a long time. It seems to never die, unfortunately. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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4/5/24 7:33 pm


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Post Re: Ok I will bite. Old Time Country Preacher
Sweethomealabama wrote:
The healing of God is the same thing as the salvation of God it’s something that is received.


Sweethome, it ats true, let the ole timer ask ya, do you every get sick? Do you wear glasses? Ever git the flu? Nose ever run?
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4/5/24 7:46 pm


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Post Re: Ok I will bite. Sweethomealabama
Quiet Wyatt not sure what you mean by never die. The word says it is appointed for men to die once.


Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Sweethomealabama wrote:
The healing of God is the same thing as the salvation of God it’s something that is received.


Sweethome, it ats true, let the ole timer ask ya, do you every get sick? Do you wear glasses? Ever git the flu? Nose ever run?


T L Osborne would say, “It is always God’s desire to heal you.”

In saying that… did you ever have to help your kids twice with something? Have you ever known somebody to commit the same sin twice? God forgive them, Bible says forgive 70×7 Sickness returns on somebody you have the ability to command it to go in the name of Jesus. Sometimes peoples faith loosen up their walk with God goes into decline that doesn’t mean that God’s word changes. It just means that the person needs to double down in faith. Each has their own measure of faith and maybe that person who has glasses, their faith has not reached the point where they can receive HEALING and that’s OK I’m not telling anyone that they’re wrong for not being healed. I’m just saying that God can heal and it is his will to heal we have access to HEALING it’s up to us to figure out the prequisites, or the key that unlocks the lock of healing in the our lives.
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4/5/24 8:46 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
If it is always God’s will to heal us physically in this life, we could never die physically.

There actually was a segment of early Pentecostalism that taught exactly that. Their reasoning was that since it was always God’s will to heal, if the believer just had sufficient faith, they would never die physically. This nonsensical doctrine has been carried down through the years by the Positive Confession Movement, also known as the Word of Faith Movement, which teaches emphatically (and quite erroneously) that it is always God’s will to heal us physically in this life, and that if we just have the right kind of faith, we will live in ‘divine health’ in this life. The only logical conclusion from that would in fact be that we would never die physically, if we just had proper faith.
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4/6/24 1:50 am


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Post Re: Ok I will bite. Nature Boy Florida
Sweethomealabama wrote:
Sweethomealabama wrote:
When Faith and all the prerequisites the Bible has for healing are fulfilled then I believe so.


Read what I wrote about prerequisites for HEALING. What that means is HEALING is responsibility of the person being healed whether they accept it or not. My people perish for lack of knowledge. This is scriptural because there were instances throughout the New Testament where Jesus would go to the community to heal people, but because of their lack of faith, he could not perform many miracles there. The healing of God is the same thing as the salvation of God it’s something that is received. If someone doesn’t want to be healed or struggles and has a bad doctrine about receiving healing, they’re not gonna be healed. If someone has false doctrine about salvation they’re not gonna receive salvation because they don’t understand it correctly. I would like to know what your thoughts are on TL Osborne, and his book healing the sick. His daughter LaDonna is on the secretary of the board of trustees at ORU. I do not like the image of us, pleading God to heal us like it’s an arm wrestling match between God and Satan. That imagery gives too much credit to the devil the work on the cross is finished. The Devil is a defeated foe he’s lost. He’s done he’s over with. the devil has used that imagery of pleading with God for healing,, in the lives of unbelievers to blame God for sickness and disease. The root of all sickness is the sin curse that came from the fall of man. If you take away the sin curse you take away all Sickness and disease. The root cause of all of this is sin, and if we allow our theology to go to God, being the cause of our sickness and disease, it’s anti-scriptural, and it will cause people to blame God wrongfully for something that is a result of the sickness of the sin curse. The first Adam brought sickness and death. The second Adam redeemed us from the curse of sin, death and saved us on the cross salvation. The gift that must be received in the same way as salvation. HEALING is something that Has to be received.


Well at least now we know you aren't very smart. But don't worry, I won't bother arguing about the fallacies because those that have fallen off this cliff seem to never be able to get up - they just pass out condemnation and guilt on any and everyone they come in contact with.

Tell Ken Copeland hello. He's looking old and frail. Guess he's losing his faith.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today!
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4/6/24 8:12 am


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Post Lee Professor said ... Mat
I was in a seminar a few years ago being taught by a Lee Professor (could have been PTS Professor)who said our early COG pioneers such as AJT, Lee, and others, practice Divine Healing by not going to doctors or taking medicines.

This was part of the "Signs Following" which taught going to the doctor was a lack of faith. This practice was carried on in the first generation and carried over by some in to the second and third generations of the movement. It should be remembered that F. J. Lee died (a very painful death) because he believed in "Signs Following."

However, they did not teach they would live forever, as AJT proclaimed, "we will believe in Divine Healing until we die," according to the Professor. Like many today, they would say "death" is the ultimate healing.

Medical care in the US and other developed nations has come a long way from those days when medical school was a year long, with no technology like X-Rays were around. Likewise, our medicines are much more regulated these days than in the days of Patten Medicines, which most often were mostly alcohol or drugs like cocaine or opium, or a mixture of both.

Much of the world today does not have the luxury of Western medicine, as Divine Healing is all they have. Maybe that's why we hear of miracles in the undeveloped world and not so much in our developed world.

Mat
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4/6/24 9:56 am


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Post Re: Lee Professor said ... Sweethomealabama
Mat wrote:
I was in a seminar a few years ago being taught by a Lee Professor (could have been PTS Professor)who said our early COG pioneers such as AJT, Lee, and others, practice Divine Healing by not going to doctors or taking medicines.

This was part of the "Signs Following" which taught going to the doctor was a lack of faith. This practice was carried on in the first generation and carried over by some in to the second and third generations of the movement. It should be remembered that F. J. Lee died (a very painful death) because he believed in "Signs Following."

However, they did not teach they would live forever, as AJT proclaimed, "we will believe in Divine Healing until we die," according to the Professor. Like many today, they would say "death" is the ultimate healing.

Medical care in the US and other developed nations has come a long way from those days when medical school was a year long, with no technology like X-Rays were around. Likewise, our medicines are much more regulated these days than in the days of Patten Medicines, which most often were mostly alcohol or drugs like cocaine or opium, or a mixture of both.

Much of the world today does not have the luxury of Western medicine, as Divine Healing is all they have. Maybe that's why we hear of miracles in the undeveloped world and not so much in our developed world.

Mat


I believe in medicine. I’m not sure the scripture reference in proverbs I’m trying to find it. It says something along the lines and man is a fool and suicidal. If he does not seek all natural means to heal himself when I go back into a study I’ll find that verse. I believe in medicine it’s God’s 2 paths of healing. God heals through doctors and God heals through faith. Oral Roberts owned a hospital you’ll be hard for pressed to find someone who is 100% against hospitals. There is medical healing and there’s supernatural healing. I would never tell somebody not to take medicine that they need. I do believe that psychiatric prescription drugs are extremely over prescribed and it’s leading to the spiritual decay the country but besides that if there’s somebody who needs something seriously and it’s not over prescribed fine they can take it but putting a kid who’s 10 years old on Zoloft or Cymbalta is lunacy and if someone cannot see that it’s a spiritual problem in that 10-year-old’s life they are blind.

There comes a time appointed a for a person to die. The logic that someone getting old is not healed, and cannot die is wrong. let’s go to the opposite end of the spectrum. Let’s look at an infant baby an infant is not considered sick because it cannot walk after birth. The baby’s body hasn’t developed yet. It is the with same age that there’s points in the Old Testament where it says Moses’s strength faded not and I believe that Moses faith in God and his relationship with God sustained him why can’t we just believe that God can do something like that for somebody who has the faith for that to happen. I don’t think anyone on this forum would say that they have greater faith than Moses obviously. But just as the body of Christ has many parts and people have spiritual gifts. I believe that some peoples faith is just different. That doesn’t mean they’re wrong or bad or evil or that it’s their fault. It is just like a skill is developed and not everyone has the same skills. Some may have a stronger skill in some areas while others have a skill in a different area. It doesn’t mean that that skill is useless or that person is useless it just means they’re not specialized in that area.

Let’s look at the woman with the issue of blood. She gave her entire wealth to seek out physicians to heal her. She suffered at the hands of many physicians. it took her grabbing hold of Jesus for her to be healed. I’m not saying she was wrong to go to the doctor. She did what she thought was right. I’m saying we should have the same right to go to Jesus without being ridiculed as she had had the right to go to the doctor.

I would go further to say that Faith is something that must be maintained if we look at Elijah he fled his faith wavered and weakened then there were moments where he had strong faith. We must not look at faith as something that we 100% have 100% of the time, there is variances in faith. Sometimes peoples faith can go to 40% sometimes they go to 100%. We just have to be OK with that and understand that it’s something that we must work to maintain and build.
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4/6/24 1:15 pm


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Post Sweethomealabama Mat
Sweethomealabama,

I'm not sure F. J. Lee would accept your saying "I believe in medicine." While I understand some of what your saying, belief in God as our Healer is not on par with believing in medicine.

As a matter of fact, we do "believe" the doctor when he prescribes us medication for our own wellbeing. Yet, that believe is not always justified, as not all in the medical profession, nor all meds, really address our ailments. Sometimes it can even be detrimental to our health.

Mat
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4/6/24 3:53 pm


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Post Re: Sweethomealabama Sweethomealabama
Mat wrote:
Sweethomealabama,

I'm not sure F. J. Lee would accept your saying "I believe in medicine." While I understand some of what your saying, belief in God as our Healer is not on par with believing in medicine.

As a matter of fact, we do "believe" the doctor when he prescribes us medication for our own wellbeing. Yet, that believe is not always justified, as not all in the medical profession, nor all meds, really address our ailments. Sometimes it can even be detrimental to our health.

Mat


Luke was a physician. How could God be against medicine. I believe in healing and medicine. You can have both.
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4/7/24 12:14 am


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Post How to Receive Healing – Oral Roberts Sweethomealabama
1. Know that God’s Will is to Heal You

Practically everyone recognizes the fact of God’s healing power. Mental acceptance is not enough. We must have personal, active faith in God for our own healing.

It is my sincere belief that Christ’s death on the cross includes all people everywhere and in all generations. The apostle Peter writes of Jesus, “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness, by whose “stripes ye were healed.” (I Peter 2:24).

The prophet Isaiah had known that Christ would be the Savior and healer over seven hundred years before the crucifixion. Said he, “But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed” (Isaiah 53:5).

Both Isaiah and Peter declare that there is healing in His stripes. Someone recently pointed out to me that in Pilate’s Hall of Judgment the Roman scourger of Jesus inflicted thirty-eight stripes on His back. Also, the medical world says there are thirty-eight major diseases. If this is true, then for every disease there is a healing stripe on the flesh of Jesus’ back.

We must have personal, active faith in God for our own healing.
The apostle Matthew tells the story of Jesus as the Great Physician and at the end of the day’s labor of deliverance he says that Jesus’ healing power is a fulfillment of scripture. Matthew writes, “… they brought unto Him many that were possessed with devils; and He cast out the spirits with His word, and healed all that were sick, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esias the prophet saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses” (Matthew 8:16, 17 is referring to Isaiah 53:4).

2. Remember that Healing Begins Within

You reach God and He reaches you through your soul. When God breathed the breath of life into man he became a living soul. Jesus declares that: “God is a spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:14).

Why is a man dominated by fear? Because he is not using his faith. Why is he not using his faith? Because he is out of tune and harmony with his God. There is only one thing that can separate a man from God, “… your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear” (Isaiah 59:2).

Man’s most severe struggle is within himself for be is condemned by his own sins. As long as this is true, faith will not work. “If our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence (faith) toward God” (I John 8:21).

I imagine this question presents itself, “Does a Person have faith whether he is right with God or not?” The answer is, “Yes, he does.” Everybody has faith for God gives a measure of faith to every man. The difference is that faith will not work as long as there is sin in the person’s life.

Sin is a dominating thing and it produces a division in the soul. Faith lies dormant and inactive (James 2:17). Without the power of active faith the soul is no match for the grueling grind of life. The body and mind, keenly responsible to the soul, feel the impact of the soul’s fears and weaknesses and are easy prey for mental and physical ills.

It adds up to this; You cannot serve the devil with your life without losing out in the battle of life.

“Ye must be born again,” says Jesus (John 3:3). The now birth is a transforming spiritual experience (2 Corinthians 5:17). Condemnation is lifted. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit” (Romans 8.1).

3. Use a Point of Contact for the Release of Your Faith.

God is the only healer. Doctors perform a good work but they only assist nature while God can actually bring deliverance. The authority of Satan’s oppression over human life is in God and in His children. But God is a spirit and sometimes we are confused because He is not directly before us in a human body. He does not come into your room as your family physician with medical potions and instruments, you cannot see Him with the human eye, nor can you take a trip to heaven and present your case as you would go to your doctor’s office. How then can we reach Him? By establishing a point of contact.

Faith is the meeting ground between your limited self and your limitless God. A point of contact is given as a means of steadying and helping you to release your faith. Establishing a point of contact is like stepping on the starter of your car – you expect something to happen. The Roman centurion said. “I am not worthy for you to come under my roof, but speak the word only and my servant shall be healed.” Speak the word! He went on to say, “For I (also) am a man under authority, having soldiers under me, and I say to this man, go, and he goes; and to another, come, and he comes; and to my servant, Do this and he does it.” (Matthew 8:5- 13).

Remember that the woman with the issue of blood used a point of contact, which helped her set the time for healing. She said, “If I may touch but His clothes I shall be whole.”

Faith is the meeting ground between your limited self and your limitless God.
There was no healing in His clothes, but touching the clothes helped her release her faith and her faith made her whole. That is why God gives us a point of contact. The book of Acts tells how that handkerchiefs or aprons were sent from the body of the apostle Paul to the sick and demon-possessed and how that through these little faith-cloths deliverance was wrought.
These cloths became points of contact and when placed upon the body of the sick and afflicted, the captives turned their faith loose and were set free. I, too, have been impressed and directed of the Lord to carry on the ministry of healing through cloths so that we are sending out over 10,000 a month.

4. Turn your faith loose Now!

So many times I have seen the need of saying, “Believe now and you may have deliverance.” On the other hand, many captives, when asked when they expect to get healed, will reply, “Oh, when God gets ready, I am.” God has been ready all the time. It’s your move next. Others reply, “I’m expecting God to heal me anytime.” On the face of that statement is a certain amount of reasonable value, but I remind you that it in not scriptural. There is a definite time when faith works and unless you set a time, it in doubtful if you will ever be delivered. God says, “Today is the day of salvation” (deliverance).

When you expect healing at no certain time, you are putting it into the dim, vague and distant future. God wants to heal you now. The best time is when God is ready; He is ready now!

The woman with the issue of blood set a time: when she touched His garment. The centurion set a time for deliverance; when Jesus spoke the word. The ruler of the synagogue set a time: Come and Lay hands on my child. They expected deliverance at the moment the Lord did what they asked Him to do. God will respond and work in our behalf when we believe and set a time.

If faith has risen in your heart, turn it loose, don’t even finish reading this, Believe God now!
This is a glorious privilege and matchless opportunity. “This very hour” is what the Lord is saying. The longer you wait to believe, the weaker your faith will grow; the more quickly you believe, the stronger your faith will develop. Strike a blow for deliverance this very minute. If faith has risen in your heart, turn it loose, don’t even finish reading this, Believe God now! The time for deliverance is when you can believe. The secret of deliverance is in instant obedience.
5. Close the case for victory.

When Bible conditions have been met and you feel the power of healing surging through your body in answer to the faith prayer, then close the case: take up the old road you have been traveling and believe God every step of the way. Burn every bridge between you and the old affliction. Don’t talk about the affliction except when God especially impresses you to give your testimony, then dwell more on His mighty power of deliverance than on what the devil afflicted you with and how you suffered. Change your outlook and live on the sunny side of life.

6. Join yourself to companions of faith.

I know how important it is to have encouragement and an atmosphere of faith to live in after being healed.

A few days after I had been healed I was feeling extremely weak in my body. My mother, a devout woman of faith, sensed my discouragement and said, “Son, you were sick a long time and you were bedfast when God healed you. You will have to exercise and do some work to get your strength back.” She saved my healing.

I have often wondered what would have happened to me had not my mother and father provided an atmosphere of faith for me during those early stressful days of my healing.

I have asked myself this question: What if I had been a member of a church whose minister and people were unfriendly toward healing and to people who had been healed? What would I have done in a moment of weakness and despondency if these people failed to encourage me or if they ridiculed me? How can I who have been healed by a miracle receive help from a church that denies the possibility and reality of the miracle of healing wrought in me by faith in God? How would I feel if the minister ridiculed the people who had prayed the “prayer of faith” for my healing.”

There is only one answer to this problem: those receiving deliverance by faith in God should by all means, join themselves with the church that believes in Bible deliverance and that will provide for them an abundance of faith and hope.
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4/9/24 5:16 pm


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