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 Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
Sweethomealabama |
The LGBTQ takedown of the Methodist Church was orchestrated by its headquarters. 20-30 years ago, no one would have anticipated the drastic doctrinal shifts that have occurred within the UMC. Massive lawsuits, similar to those faced by the Catholic Church, have brought the organization to its knees. As funds for The UMC Bible colleges, state offices, and headquarters dwindled, hard left organizations stepped in to fill the financial gaps in exchange for concessions in doctrine among the leadership.
A concept that has started to infiltrate other evangelical movements, known as "non-practicing homosexual," had pushed within the Methodist Church. This concept suggests that individuals can identify as homosexual, but as long as they do not act on it, they can attend church, be involved, and have full access to leadership and clergy positions.
This "don't ask, don't tell" culture of homosexuality has permeated Methodist congregations, including state offices, Bible colleges, and headquarters. These people never stopped practicing homosexuality. They just practiced under closed door policy. Under the guise of a "Methodist Monastery," lesbian and gay superintendents moved their partners into state-owned or headquarters-owned parsonages, claiming that there was nothing homosexual about it. Over the years, some of these roommates in the Methodist monastery became more open about their relationships and even pushed for marriage.
Years ago, a student in my church attended a "singles symposium" at Lee, a term that was being circulated within was the concept of a Pentecostal monastery. This concept was deeply concerning because of the damage the monastery system had inflicted on the Methodist Church. The student shared some of the papers and materials circulated for this symposium, which revealed that professors from other movements connected with our own were advocating for a monastery system within the Pentecostal church to explore spirituality.
It was alarming to hear that, in the old Sanctuary North Cleveland, a group of professors from other movements began preaching that the Pentecostal church needed a monastery system to explore spirituality. This was not the direction I wanted for my church or organization. However, as I see unaccounted-for foundation money creeping in, beliefs are becoming more diluted.
In the Methodist Church, some untouchable pastors were powered and emboldened by hq & state office to test the waters and make public statements that it's not sinful to have same-sex attraction. These pastors also were allowed with full backing of their HQ and state office to put questionably LGBTQ individuals in leadership positions without confirming their LGBTQ status. Whenever local members spoke out, they were ignored and gaslit to believe it was something else. Even worse, when other pastors within the movement started getting outspoken about how this was wrong and not biblical the state office of the Methodist Church and their headquarters would punish those pastors by selling their property, swiftly moving them to lesser churches to pressured them to quit Ministry in the methodist church. This trend is spreading within evangelical movements, and it's a cause for concern. Have there been evangelical movements that have openly allowed ministers within their movement to make statements that are contrary to the doctrine of the church? While they lie and say, the statements were misrepresented?
The Methodist denomination owns all property, and UMC churches that want to leave in various states are being denied the opportunity to do so and are being sued. These churches can’t leave because of legal judgments of the victims of the Methodist denomination. Their headquarters put those local churches down as collateral in exchange for a structured settlement of all these legal cases. The banks that own the mortgages and the lawyers that are owed money are not gonna let 100s of million if not billions of dollars walk out the organization where they won’t get paid. This situation raises concerns about what could happen in other Pentecostal evangelical movements. It only takes a few dominoes to fall before the churches find themselves in a situation similar to the Methodist church .
Indianapolis will be the most important meeting in the evangelical denominational movement, and I believe that there needs to be a clear stance against non-practicing homosexuality in the doctrine of all evangelical churches . If this is not addressed, there is a risk that financial donors and those with nefarious intentions could financially control movements , similar to how lobbyists influence organizations to adopt extra-biblical stances in the Methodist and other mainline denominations. Indianapolis has been a source of lobbyist money for a while under the guise of the Lily foundation. We need to be asking is the pushing of psychology & counseling and the hiring of a whole special departments of Ministry care is a move in this direction. Is the evangelical movement leaders intentionally surrendering ground in exchange of money to operate as a big Pharma lobbyist. Are they supporting big Pharma’s agenda? What will this mean when we train our pastors? Is there an agenda to hijack the evangelical movement And have our Bible colleges and other institutions look at the Bible through the lens of pharmaceutical special interests, instead of looking at pharmaceutical interest through the lens of the Bible? |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 84
5/2/24 4:34 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| We already affirm the distinction between temptation and sin, because the Scriptures do. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12802
5/2/24 6:40 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
fire-starter |
| Sweethomealabama wrote: | | I believe that there needs to be a clear stance against non-practicing homosexuality in the doctrine of all evangelical churches. |
In that case, a substantial number of COG pastors, worship leaders, and members will either have to lie or leave for the UMC.  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1948
5/6/24 1:09 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Son, all the ole timer knows is, he don't have to ask, an they don't have to tell. The ole timer can spot a feller whats light loafered a fer piece off. They just got way about em. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
5/6/24 1:27 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| fire-starter wrote: | | Sweethomealabama wrote: | | I believe that there needs to be a clear stance against non-practicing homosexuality in the doctrine of all evangelical churches. |
In that case, a substantial number of COG pastors, worship leaders, and members will either have to lie or leave for the UMC. |
A substantial number? Nooooooooo. Son, they ain't no way theys a large number a COG pastors an worship leaders whats light loafered. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
5/6/24 1:28 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | fire-starter wrote: | | Sweethomealabama wrote: | | I believe that there needs to be a clear stance against non-practicing homosexuality in the doctrine of all evangelical churches. |
In that case, a substantial number of COG pastors, worship leaders, and members will either have to lie or leave for the UMC. |
A substantial number? Nooooooooo. Son, they ain't no way theys a large number a COG pastors an worship leaders whats light loafered. |
Depends on how many been at Lee lately.
Sorry. Too soon?
Actually that's a joke - don't crucify me. I'm just having fun.
I actually believe OTCP is right. Not many in the COG. If they felt that way, they already left. COG in general don't look the other way like Lee does.
Oops I did it again.
Again, just kidding.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16627
5/6/24 1:45 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
fire-starter |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | fire-starter wrote: | | Sweethomealabama wrote: | | I believe that there needs to be a clear stance against non-practicing homosexuality in the doctrine of all evangelical churches. |
In that case, a substantial number of COG pastors, worship leaders, and members will either have to lie or leave for the UMC. |
A substantial number? Nooooooooo. Son, they ain't no way theys a large number a COG pastors an worship leaders whats light loafered. |
Depends on how many been at Lee lately.
Sorry. Too soon?
Actually that's a joke - don't crucify me. I'm just having fun.
I actually believe OTCP is right. Not many in the COG. If they felt that way, they already left. COG in general don't look the other way like Lee does.
Oops I did it again.
Again, just kidding.
|
There are way more than most realize. Most, if not all, that I am aware of are non-practicing-- or at least try to be most of the time. But if they were forced to share that they were, even if non-practicing, the humiliation would be too great for them I think. At least I know this to be true of the ones who have confided in me.
In general, I have found many homosexual Christian men and women enjoy Pentecostal worship. If they didn't grow up in it, they found it. And they do not want to leave for liturgical or dead churches. They want to be in Pentecostal churches. They also don't want to be singled out and humiliated. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1948
5/6/24 2:27 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
georgiapath |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | fire-starter wrote: | | Sweethomealabama wrote: | | I believe that there needs to be a clear stance against non-practicing homosexuality in the doctrine of all evangelical churches. |
In that case, a substantial number of COG pastors, worship leaders, and members will either have to lie or leave for the UMC. |
A substantial number? Nooooooooo. Son, they ain't no way theys a large number a COG pastors an worship leaders whats light loafered. |
I don't believe there is either. I don't know of any COG Pastors or worship leaders that are, in this area. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7593
5/6/24 2:30 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
fire-starter |
| georgiapath wrote: |
I don't believe there is either. I don't know of any COG Pastors or worship leaders that are, in this area. |
They aren't out. lol. Most have confided in a very small number of people. Some to their pastors, some not. Some have married the opposite sex and even had children. Some are in their fifties and have been single their whole lives. I would never out any of them who have confided in me in my small circle of the world, but based on what I hear from most COG pastors and leaders, the denomination is out of touch with how many members it has who are homosexual. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1948
5/7/24 8:24 am
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
Sweethomealabama |
| fire-starter wrote: | | georgiapath wrote: |
I don't believe there is either. I don't know of any COG Pastors or worship leaders that are, in this area. |
They aren't out. lol. Most have confided in a very small number of people. Some to their pastors, some not. Some have married the opposite sex and even had children. Some are in their fifties and have been single their whole lives. I would never out any of them who have confided in me in my small circle of the world, but based on what I hear from most COG pastors and leaders, the denomination is out of touch with how many members it has who are homosexual. |
The question is how many have gone the religious version of civil disobedience route in the church where they sit in position and stay in the hopes of slowly eroding the resistance to acceptance? Hiding their true position in hopes that one day the position they secretly hold one day be accepted. There are beliefs that secrets Society hold all the time that is not publicly made known. Remember, fraternal organizations Infiltrated evangelical Bible colleges and evangelical institutions of power and movements. How much of this dual loyalty Is a hidden higher knowledge that they believe their way is right and that they must wait for their way to be accepted by the non enlightened? I remember a day when Freemasonry and membership in a secret Society was Not allowed byEvangelical denominational leadership. Now membership in secret fraternal orders is almost a a near requirement to evangelical denominational leadership. |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 84
5/8/24 3:14 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| fire-starter wrote: | | They aren't out. lol...I would never out any of them who have confided in me. |
Son, if a COG preacher or minister of music has done confided in you an confessed to bein a practicin homosexual, hey, you oughtta feel compelled to make it known. If you don't, you are guilty of by association. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
5/8/24 10:53 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Sweethomealabama wrote: | | I remember a day when Freemasonry and membership in a secret Society was Not allowed byEvangelical denominational leadership. Now membership in secret fraternal orders is almost a a near requirement to evangelical denominational leadership. |
Who in the COG leadership is a member of a secret fraternal order?
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16627
5/9/24 5:53 am
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
georgiapath |
| fire-starter wrote: | | georgiapath wrote: |
I don't believe there is either. I don't know of any COG Pastors or worship leaders that are, in this area. |
They aren't out. lol. Most have confided in a very small number of people. Some to their pastors, some not. Some have married the opposite sex and even had children. Some are in their fifties and have been single their whole lives. I would never out any of them who have confided in me in my small circle of the world, but based on what I hear from most COG pastors and leaders, the denomination is out of touch with how many members it has who are homosexual. |
I think you just want to stir the pot. You love the attention, so have fun. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7593
5/9/24 6:56 am
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
georgiapath |
| fire-starter wrote: | | georgiapath wrote: |
I don't believe there is either. I don't know of any COG Pastors or worship leaders that are, in this area. |
They aren't out. lol. Most have confided in a very small number of people. Some to their pastors, some not. Some have married the opposite sex and even had children. Some are in their fifties and have been single their whole lives. I would never out any of them who have confided in me in my small circle of the world, but based on what I hear from most COG pastors and leaders, the denomination is out of touch with how many members it has who are homosexual. |
I have an idea. Why don't you, them or whoever you are talking about go start your, their, own church. Why would anybody want to go where they are not wanted. I wouldn't. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7593
5/9/24 2:30 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
Mat |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Sweethomealabama wrote: | | I remember a day when Freemasonry and membership in a secret Society was Not allowed byEvangelical denominational leadership. Now membership in secret fraternal orders is almost a a near requirement to evangelical denominational leadership. |
Who in the COG leadership is a member of a secret fraternal order? |
Secret fraternal order/society/lodge - do you mean like Mason or Moose, or does this mean KKK or Black Panthers? There's also La Raza, the Proud Boys and the Mafia (the Golf Cart kind).
The secret fraternal name for a group of Homosexuals is "Daisy Chain." Most likely are some Daisy Chains in churches and denominations, and they are secretive and connected, mostly up the ....!
 
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1986
5/10/24 3:54 pm
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
Sweethomealabama |
| Quote: | Who in the COG leadership is a member of a secret fraternal order?
Secret fraternal order/society/lodge - do you mean like Mason or Moose, or does this mean KKK or Black Panthers? There's also La Raza, the Proud Boys and the Mafia (the Golf Cart kind).
The secret fraternal name for a group of Homosexuals is "Daisy Chain." Most likely are some Daisy Chains in churches and denominations, and they are secretive and connected, mostly up the ....!
Mat |
Matt you are funny daisy chain ????. What about Soddy daisy chain gang
https://www.leeuniversity.edu/student-organizations/greek/
http://www.upsilonxi.com/history/
The history section of the site probably not updated for a long time brags about how many Political leaders came out of the group. At Lee it was said many times to me by student and faculty if you join upsilon you run the church…. If you join alpha gamma chi you run Lee. To sum it up, preachers joined upsilon Because it meant jobs and networking opportunities. People who had aspirations to be religious educators, and professors joined Alpha Gamma Chi for the same jobs and networking opportunity. To me that sounds pretty politically powerful For the evangelical movement, I don’t know what is? Plus, various groomers for Church, leadership and gr00mers for religious education were in both groups sponsoring leading recruiting. To me it wasn’t right.
What about various fraternal statue structures around Cleveland college campuses?
I was at a of leadership laboratory training event And we were told to join the Kawana’s rotary and various other Fraternal groups Because of the influential people that were there that could influence us and we influence them.
Is old hickory the paddle they used to spank Greek club members still in use at Lee??? If you need an example of how the paddle is used watch this clip this is a video depiction of the Masonic use of the paddle.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=0_QJ5b9qw38&pp=ygUhS2lsbGVycyBvZiB0aGUgZmxvd2VyIG1vb24gcGFkZGxl |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 84
Yesterday at 8:30 am
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| Re: Non practicing homosexuality - don’t ask don’t tell |
fire-starter |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | fire-starter wrote: | | They aren't out. lol...I would never out any of them who have confided in me. |
Son, if a COG preacher or minister of music has done confided in you an confessed to bein a practicin homosexual, hey, you oughtta feel compelled to make it known. If you don't, you are guilty of by association. |
Son? I think I am older than you. lol. I choose not to out people who are not out and who are genuinely struggling with their feelings. They come to me because they know they can talk about it without judgment, which is necessary when they are trying to process and find wholeness. I would rather keep that door of conversation open than closed.
In terms of practicing, or being where they are not wanted: I am speaking only of those who are wrestling with it, most are living celibate or trying to, some have married and tried to live normal, all of them are miserable because they know if the church knew they would no longer be wanted and they truly love God and the church. Imagine being part of a loving church family but knowing deep down they would turn on you in a heartbeat if they knew who you truly were. They come to COG churches because they want to be in a spirit-filled church. You can't argue with that. I think you should want them there.
I understood the OP to suggest that we should require them to publicly confess, even if non-practicing. That is a terrible idea IMO. And most of the ones who decide to practice come out and leave the church anyways. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1948
Yesterday at 10:02 am
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