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 Being a pastor is so tough... |
Nature Boy Florida |
Guys - I see a couple of posts on facebook complaining (AGAIN) today about how hard it is.
I get it that there are some unique circumstances to being a pastor - just as their are very unique things to being a firefighter and policeman and salesman, etc...
How in the world can you minister to anyone while you bellyache and complain all the time?
If you hate your life so much - get another job. Working in food service ain't going to be no fun either. All you get is preachers coming in talking about how hard they got it while they sit in Cracker Barrel for an hour while everyone is working.
By the way: Quit worrying about whether there is no repentance for the call of God. You weren't called if all you do is complain all the time.
You guys that do it - you got to stop.
I just don't think Jesus done it this way.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
2/5/24 3:14 pm
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| If You Want to Know Why... |
FG Minister |
| If you want to know why many pastors are burnt out and ready to give it up, read the previous post. These are the people we have to pastor!! |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
2/5/24 3:50 pm
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| Re: If You Want to Know Why... |
Nature Boy Florida |
| FG Minister wrote: | | If you want to know why many pastors are burnt out and ready to give it up, read the previous post. These are the people we have to pastor!! |
Nice one.
But, if you want to know why people don't attend your churches (or why they do attend your churches) just read their social media. I say it's the number one predictor of why your church is small. (Unless you live in a town of a few thousand)
Most bellyaching = smallest attendance
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
2/6/24 7:15 am
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| Re: If You Want to Know Why... |
fire-starter |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | FG Minister wrote: | | If you want to know why many pastors are burnt out and ready to give it up, read the previous post. These are the people we have to pastor!! |
Nice one.
But, if you want to know why people don't attend your churches (or why they do attend your churches) just read their social media. I say it's the number one predictor of why your church is small. (Unless you live in a town of a few thousand)
Most bellyaching = smallest attendance |
You're both correct. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1944
2/6/24 4:04 pm
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| During Covid |
FG Minister |
During Covid, 47% of pastors considered leaving the ministry. Why? Because of the stupidity, division, and politization of a medical condition. Those were two of the most stressful years of my life. I pastor a small congregation of 400 attendees. Before Covid, these 400 people were reasonable, considerate, kind, and helpful Christians. During Covid, things changed.
People became more like Trump, and less like Jesus
People hated Biden more than they ever hated Satan
People fought over "the" vaccine
People fought over masks
People traded Christianity for politics
Trump became the 4th member of the trinity making a quadrinity
I'm as conservative as they come, but Covid did something and the horse is out of the barn. Our church grew during Covid, and is still growing, but it has taken a toll on me whether Nature Boy acknowledges it or not. I stopped using Face Book years ago, so I don't complain to anyone about it. If you have never pastored a church, please reserve your judgment. You have no clue what you are talking about. I'm tired but I'm still going. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
2/7/24 3:47 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
FG, NBF doesn't want to hurt your feelings. And NBF agrees - COVD changed people. I wonder if it isn't simply attitudes - or if something chemically changed by getting COVD (or the shot) One thing that happened is a lot more people feel entitled to get govt handouts instead of working - it is really hard to get people to do anything.
But as for preachers: I just want the bellyaching on social media to stop. It doesn't sound like that is you - so you should take no offense.
The percentages say: 40% of your congregation has been fired from a job in their lifetime. What is the percentage of pastors fired?
46% of folks in your congregation have left their job simply because of their boss. Perhaps that percentage is similar for pastors (if they feel the congregation is an unreasonable "boss".)
The average person switches careers 3-7 times in their lifetime - often because they are burned out doing the "same old, same old." How many times do pastors change careers?
My point: some pastors think they have it worse than everyone else - that other folks don't understand. A high percentage of people in your congregation feel they have it worse than everyone else - and you have no way of understanding.
Empathy works both ways. Work in this lifetime most likely is hard - for all of us.
Genesis 3:19
New International Version
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
2/8/24 9:39 am
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| Personally, if I pastored NBF... |
Aaron Scott |
If I pastored NBF, I would then KNOW that Jesus' coming is post-tribulation, since I'd be right in the thick of it.
The only way to successfully pastor NBF (or put up with him otherwise) is to be completely deaf and unable to read...or have such steel-like resolution to ignore EVERYTHING he says.
When I first came to this site many years ago, I had an IQ that was higher than Einstein's. In fact, I proved several of Einstein's theories wrong. But after encountering NBF--ONE TIME!!!--I lost over 30 IQ points. Where did they go? He got 'em. How? Well, he made me stupider...and I made him smarter.
Unfortunately, because I was then dumber, I CONTINUED to interact with him. After about eight years of me DAILY losing IQ points and him gaining them, we reached parity. Unfortunately, I've not found anyone so overwhelmingly smart as to be able to help me reclaim my genius.
When it comes to interviewing pastors about how they feel about pastoring, THE VERY FIRST QUESTION OUGHT TO BE: "Do you pastor NBF...or someone who is his, um, equivalent."
If the answer is YES, then understand that that single pastor will undermine all the statistical scores. He will be ready to jump off a bridge, crash a car into a wall, play Russian Roulette, or try to solve the problems in the Middle East. What he WILL NOT be ready to do...is pastor much longer.
The only solution, and I mean THE ONLY SOLUTION, is to drop NBF off of a bridge...on to a railroad track...where a massive train at least 8 miles long can run over him for the next hour. And even then, whatever it is about him is likely to have become airborne and threaten the existence of intelligent life everywhere. Plant life will be just fine. But even Orcas and Dolphins will be reduced to the level of a Japanese Land Snail. Further, civilization will revert to whatever came before the Stone Age.
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
2/8/24 3:41 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
I agree we should endure hardship as a good soldier of Christ, and while I definitely agree we should never bellyache, but should serve the Lord without murmuring or complaining, as Scripture plainly says, in my experience as a small bivo church pastor of over 20 years’ experience, the key to peace of mind for me besides having my mind stayed on Jesus has always been having a side job that makes it to where I don’t necessarily have to depend on people for my livelihood. Also, knowing that folks will come and folks will go, but my divine duty is to simply preach and teach the truth without fear or favor no matter what.
Yes, COVD has changed our culture, it seems. I saw folks quit coming to the church house, all of whom I still saw at the grocery store or Walmart or going to work. It makes no sense, but the Lord’s sheep stick together and love one another, unlike goats. I think having our services available online made it too easy for folks to sit home and just watch if they felt like it. We have greatly reduced our online services in recent months.
Not complaining, just sayin. Not even God can make folk do right. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12792
2/8/24 4:15 pm
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FLRon |
Pastoring is a noble calling indeed. I doubt anyone would argue that point. I don’t know how many pastors I’ve heard say “if it wasn’t for people this would be a good job”. And I get that. It’s the same thing I said when I was responsible for 3,000 people in my former corporate job. If it was easy anyone could do it some say.
But it’s not easy, but it is doable with the Lord’s help and strength. I think we do ourselves a huge disservice by complaining about our assignments. If God calls he knows what he’s doing, and he doesn’t make mistakes. For me personally, I came to realize that when I complained the most it was because I was trying to drive the bus instead of allowing Him to drive it. Let Him lead and we’ll never go wrong.
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“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 770
2/8/24 4:31 pm
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| Re: Personally, if I pastored NBF... |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | If I pastored NBF, I would then KNOW that Jesus' coming is post-tribulation, since I'd be right in the thick of it.
The only way to successfully pastor NBF (or put up with him otherwise) is to be completely deaf and unable to read...or have such steel-like resolution to ignore EVERYTHING he says.
When I first came to this site many years ago, I had an IQ that was higher than Einstein's. In fact, I proved several of Einstein's theories wrong. But after encountering NBF--ONE TIME!!!--I lost over 30 IQ points. Where did they go? He got 'em. How? Well, he made me stupider...and I made him smarter.
Unfortunately, because I was then dumber, I CONTINUED to interact with him. After about eight years of me DAILY losing IQ points and him gaining them, we reached parity. Unfortunately, I've not found anyone so overwhelmingly smart as to be able to help me reclaim my genius.
When it comes to interviewing pastors about how they feel about pastoring, THE VERY FIRST QUESTION OUGHT TO BE: "Do you pastor NBF...or someone who is his, um, equivalent."
If the answer is YES, then understand that that single pastor will undermine all the statistical scores. He will be ready to jump off a bridge, crash a car into a wall, play Russian Roulette, or try to solve the problems in the Middle East. What he WILL NOT be ready to do...is pastor much longer.
The only solution, and I mean THE ONLY SOLUTION, is to drop NBF off of a bridge...on to a railroad track...where a massive train at least 8 miles long can run over him for the next hour. And even then, whatever it is about him is likely to have become airborne and threaten the existence of intelligent life everywhere. Plant life will be just fine. But even Orcas and Dolphins will be reduced to the level of a Japanese Land Snail. Further, civilization will revert to whatever came before the Stone Age.
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That's hurtful man.
But I will never go on social media and complain about it.
I truly ought to start attending your church to test our theories.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
2/9/24 7:10 am
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| How can you attend Aaron Scott's church? |
Mat |
Nature Boy Florida,
How can you attend Aaron Scott's church, I thought you had your own church to pastor? Are you an active pastor or retired or simply a member? I just always thought you were in ministry, is that a wrong assumption?
By the way, when it comes to people leaving my church for larger churches, I find that those who were the most difficult generally quiet down in their new environment. Maybe its the size of the church, or maybe they are less involved in the ministry of the church or do not have generational history. Whatever it is, the Pastors of those churches work with leaders who have helped them build the congregation, not the disgruntled who "transfer" in.
What is most surprising is that those who were "Church of God to the bone" and had fully in braced Pentecostal experience are now quietly sitting in Baptist churches. As a Pastor in Cleveland told me, "our church is a 'feeder church' for First Baptist." Whatever the effect is, these former members are not standing up for COG teachings.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1980
2/9/24 7:45 am
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| Re: How can you attend Aaron Scott's church? |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Mat wrote: | Nature Boy Florida,
How can you attend Aaron Scott's church, I thought you had your own church to pastor? Are you an active pastor or retired or simply a member? I just always thought you were in ministry, is that a wrong assumption?
By the way, when it comes to people leaving my church for larger churches, I find that those who were the most difficult generally quiet down in their new environment. Maybe its the size of the church, or maybe they are less involved in the ministry of the church or do not have generational history. Whatever it is, the Pastors of those churches work with leaders who have helped them build the congregation, not the disgruntled who "transfer" in.
What is most surprising is that those who were "Church of God to the bone" and had fully in braced Pentecostal experience are now quietly sitting in Baptist churches. As a Pastor in Cleveland told me, "our church is a 'feeder church' for First Baptist." Whatever the effect is, these former members are not standing up for COG teachings.
Mat |
You assume a lot.
Keep in mind - NBF doesn't disagree with the fact that working with people that you don't like (gasp) is very difficult. It sucks the life out of you.
Fact: NBF is not good at it...some folks are much better at it than he.
Fact: Some people left NBFs church because he is bad at faking it.
One more example: - Aaron was forced to be a pastor - because no one, and I mean no one, could stand to be his pastor. He was asked to leave everywhere he attended.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
2/9/24 9:57 am
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| Nature Boy Florida |
Mat |
Nature Boy Florida,
I believe three of the four statement you made. You pick which ones.   
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1980
2/9/24 10:47 am
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| Re: How can you attend Aaron Scott's church? |
Aaron Scott |
[quote="Nature Boy Florida"] | Mat wrote: | Nature Boy Florida,
One more example: - Aaron was forced to be a pastor - because no one, and I mean no one, could stand to be his pastor. He was asked to leave everywhere he attended.
|
True. It pains me to admit it. But, yes, NBF and I were put out to pasture. While NBF roamed around finding plenty of different churches to ruin and discourage, I have stayed in my pastorate for a decade now...ruining and discouraging ONLY THEM. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
2/9/24 12:10 pm
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Link |
I don't see anything specifically about pastors getting a salary in the New Testament. The concept of 'full-time ministry' is full of modern ideas that I don't see in the Bible either.
Paul, an apostle, made tents for a living and also received gifts. He and Barnabas appointed elders, more than one of them, in a local church. In Acts 20:28, he tells the elders of the church in Ephesus to pastor the church of God over whom the Holy Ghost had made them 'bishops.'
'Pastors' shows up once in the New Testament relation to someone besides a literal sheepherder or Christ, without a lot of explanation. Regarding elders, if they rule well, they are worthy of double honor, especially those that minister in preaching and teaching. This is right after honoring widows. So maybe they got supported similarly. But also told elders in Acts 20 to follow his example of working to support the weak.
A lot of small church pastors work full or part-time elsewhere, too.
It probably helped to have other elders to help carry the pastoral load in the first century. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
2/9/24 10:08 pm
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| Just a Little Salary for Pastors |
FG Minister |
Link says he doesn't see a salary for pastors in the Bible. And preachers in the Bible were bi-vocational. Ok. In those days local churches were not like they are today. Pastors today are very different than pastors 2000 years ago. I am a full-time pastor who works at least 60 hours per week. I spend that time praying, preparing sermons, meeting members, counseling members, visiting hospitals and nursing homes, conducting weddings and funerals, overseeing a staff, holding staff meetings, meeting with individuals to raise money for missions, meeting with community charities, and serving on a couple of boards to further ministry. Please tell me when I am to be making tents?
I get it, if you pastor 35 people, your responsibilities are much less, but not everyone pastors 35. I conduct upwards of ten weddings in June, July and August every year - therefore those ten weekends (Fri-Sat) are consumed. To help redeem some time, I haven't attended a wedding reception in 17 years. I also have a younger congregation, so I only conduct 7-10 funerals a year.
The world is different than it was in the NT. We don't live in a barter society any longer - you need cash. Pastors have to be paid to function and to support their families. Please don't cheat the pastor - pay him well so he can do his job well. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
2/10/24 8:18 am
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| Re: Being a pastor is so tough... |
skinnybishop |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Guys - I see a couple of posts on facebook complaining (AGAIN) today about how hard it is.
I get it that there are some unique circumstances to being a pastor - just as their are very unique things to being a firefighter and policeman and salesman, etc...
How in the world can you minister to anyone while you bellyache and complain all the time?
If you hate your life so much - get another job. Working in food service ain't going to be no fun either. All you get is preachers coming in talking about how hard they got it while they sit in Cracker Barrel for an hour while everyone is working.
By the way: Quit worrying about whether there is no repentance for the call of God. You weren't called if all you do is complain all the time.
You guys that do it - you got to stop.
I just don't think Jesus done it this way. |
I stopped reading when you compared working in ministry to working in firefighting etc.
I've done both.
Being a firefighter was tough.
Ministry is tougher.
_________________
Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1055
2/12/24 10:23 am
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| Re: Being a pastor is so tough... |
Nature Boy Florida |
| skinnybishop wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Guys - I see a couple of posts on facebook complaining (AGAIN) today about how hard it is.
I get it that there are some unique circumstances to being a pastor - just as their are very unique things to being a firefighter and policeman and salesman, etc...
How in the world can you minister to anyone while you bellyache and complain all the time?
If you hate your life so much - get another job. Working in food service ain't going to be no fun either. All you get is preachers coming in talking about how hard they got it while they sit in Cracker Barrel for an hour while everyone is working.
By the way: Quit worrying about whether there is no repentance for the call of God. You weren't called if all you do is complain all the time.
You guys that do it - you got to stop.
I just don't think Jesus done it this way. |
I stopped reading when you compared working in ministry to working in firefighting etc.
I've done both.
Being a firefighter was tough.
Ministry is tougher. |
Maybe you shouldn't stop reading. You might learn something.
I don't see where I said firefighting is tougher.
Ah, but again - what city were you in for firefighting? Some battalions in small cities go on 4 calls a month, in some other citiies, they go on 31 calls a day, often in the middle of the night.
And some preachers shoot themselves in the foot so many times with their poor sermons and laziness - it's no wonder folks are up in arms some times - which makes the job seem miserable.
I simply asked that you stop going on social media and complaining.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
2/12/24 12:10 pm
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| Re: Being a pastor is so tough... |
skinnybishop |
[quote="Nature Boy Florida"] | skinnybishop wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Guys - I see a couple of posts on facebook complaining (AGAIN) today about how hard it is.
I get it that there are some unique circumstances to being a pastor - just as their are very unique things to being a firefighter and policeman and salesman, etc...
How in the world can you minister to anyone while you bellyache and complain all the time?
If you hate your life so much - get another job. Working in food service ain't going to be no fun either. All you get is preachers coming in talking about how hard they got it while they sit in Cracker Barrel for an hour while everyone is working.
By the way: Quit worrying about whether there is no repentance for the call of God. You weren't called if all you do is complain all the time.
You guys that do it - you got to stop.
I just don't think Jesus done it this way. |
I stopped reading when you compared working in ministry to working in firefighting etc.
I've done both.
Being a firefighter was tough.
Ministry is tougher. |
Maybe you shouldn't stop reading. You might learn something.
I don't see where I said firefighting is tougher.
Ah, but again - what city were you in for firefighting? Some battalions in small cities go on 4 calls a month, in some other citiies, they go on 31 calls a day, often in the middle of the night.
And some preachers shoot themselves in the foot so many times with their poor sermons and laziness - it's no wonder folks are up in arms some times - which makes the job seem miserable.
I simply asked that you stop going on social media and complaining.[/quote
I went back an read your whole post.
I didn't learn anything, but I'll tell you something, since you asked.
I didn't fight fire in a city. I fought wildland fires. Was on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
I fought them from one side of the country to the other. I fought them alone, and fought them on strike teams. I fought them in the middle of the night, many many times.....Sometimes working all night long in the process. Sometimes working 12 hour shifts, because the fire was so large.
I fought them with everything from hand rakes, to bulldozers. Fought them with a helicopter over me, dropping water on the flame, to provide escape routes.
I've risked my life more times than I can count, to protect property and natural resources.
_________________
Eddie Wiggins |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1055
2/13/24 11:55 am
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Cojak |
The gist of what NBF said is on the right track. Brothers, the pulpit is NOT the place to complain about how hard you have it. Our pastor even said he wished he had never been CALLED? What? I have a son that if he is hurting he wants everybody in the world to know it. No matter how sick you are, HE is sicker. The other son is opposite.
So I imagine it is some folks nature to feel like it is me against the world. BUT that attitude is not a WINNER.
I know of a pastor even said he preferred to tell his troubles to a sinner rather than a member that would not even pray for themselves?
Just saying, the pulpit and especially the internet is no place to lay out YOUR troubles. There should be a minister you love and respect who would pray with you and help you bear your burdens..
That my friends is said in love and care. I know life is tough, it is for all of us. My situation at present is the worst I have EVER faced, physically and mentally and I honestly prefer to ask you brothering to pray than anyone I know. I still look around me and see those who are in worse shape. I cannot help but think of Brother Sterbins...... LORD please give him strength.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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2/19/24 11:05 am
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