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 Tennessee Overseer Responds To Travis Johnson Situation (L) |
FG Minister |
The Overseer of TN gives remarks on the TN FaceBook page. There must be more to this story than we have heard thus far. You have to scroll down to his video.
https://www.facebook.com/COGTN/videos/384507164261866/
Edited by the Administrator to change to subject line casing and update video link to a direct link. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
1/20/24 10:50 am
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| Re: TENNESSEE OVERSEER RESPONDS TO TRAVIS JOHNSON SITUATION |
Mat |
| FG Minister wrote: | The Overseer of TN gives remarks on the TN FaceBook page. There must be more to this story than we have heard thus far. You have to scroll down to his video.
https://www.facebook.com/COGTN/ |
It seems they issue is dividing into "camps." After watching the video and reading the comments of support for the TN Bishop, and comparing it to the video from the AL Pastor, and the comments, there's a great deal of opportunity for disagreement and offense.
One side claims being "right" because of standing for the Bible, the other side claims being "right" for following the Bible.
One point in the TN Bishop's video did catch my attention, the person who claims to have been done wrong by the Pastor's words and worries that his "position" could be effected does not understand how a pastor can lose his ministry by just a few words spoken to the Bishop.
Do pastors have the right to appeal to committees/boards to investigate members or Bishops who said something which caused their removal? Does a professor at a denomination institution have have more job security then a pastor in that denomination?
When those in the authority structure feel they must defend their function in the media (print or video), somebody is going to lose their job.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1981
1/20/24 11:31 am
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| The Investigative Board Was Unanimous! |
FG Minister |
| I was told the investigative board found that the professor is NOT LGBTQ affirming and does NOT attend an Episcopalian Church but is a faithful member at Westmore COG in Cleveland. His wife is Episcopalian, and he went with her to church twice and received communion - that's it! He says he was falsely accused. Evidently the Board of Investigation agrees with the professor. I do hope the pastor and the professor can get this settled and the professor's reputation restored IF in fact, the allegations are not true. I have no idea, because I was not on the investigative board. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
1/20/24 11:37 am
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Carolyn Smith |
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fire-starter |
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Link |
So, is the professor saying he did not partake of communion at an Anglican church, but rather at a COG?
If the evidence is photographs, don't Anglicans line up and stick out their tongue or palm in the front, and COG's give out those little trays with juice and bread or two-in-one packets? You could tell from the photograph what type of scenario he was in, right?
I figured it might be a case of the particular claims about individuals that were being made. But does this have to go through charges made in the denomination, as opposed to just reaching out and saying 'You got this wrong' and asking for an apology? |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/20/24 1:29 pm
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| Re: The Investigative Board Was Unanimous! |
Mat |
| FG Minister wrote: | | I was told the investigative board found that the professor is NOT LGBTQ affirming and does NOT attend an Episcopalian Church but is a faithful member at Westmore COG in Cleveland. His wife is Episcopalian, and he went with her to church twice and received communion - that's it! He says he was falsely accused. Evidently the Board of Investigation agrees with the professor. I do hope the pastor and the professor can get this settled and the professor's reputation restored IF in fact, the allegations are not true. I have no idea, because I was not on the investigative board. |
Oh, just communion a couple of times. That's nothing, or is it.
I will not repeat what I wrote on another thread about the different views (beliefs) concerning communion, but being in communion with the Episcopal Church does have meaning. Or maybe it doesn't mean a thing in the COG.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1981
1/20/24 1:30 pm
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| Re: The Investigative Board Was Unanimous! |
MrSippi |
| FG Minister wrote: | | I was told the investigative board found that the professor is NOT LGBTQ affirming and does NOT attend an Episcopalian Church but is a faithful member at Westmore COG in Cleveland. His wife is Episcopalian, and he went with her to church twice and received communion - that's it! He says he was falsely accused. Evidently the Board of Investigation agrees with the professor. I do hope the pastor and the professor can get this settled and the professor's reputation restored IF in fact, the allegations are not true. I have no idea because I was not on the investigative board. |
If he received communion at St Luke's (A Gay Affirming Church) - TWICE - and a Church of God investigative board and state overseer thinks that is OK, then I am out!!!!!!!!! Seriously!!!!!!! Then, the poster of this says "He (A professor at a Church of God school) went with her (his wife, who attends this gay-affirming church) to church (a gay-affirming church) twice (not once, but TWICE!) and received communion (In a gay-affirming Episcopal church!)." Then the poster says, "THAT'S IT! (What?)"
I feel like I am in some kind of Twilight Zone! Surely we are not defending this! Surely we do not have state overseers who are allowing people like this to press charges against respected ordained bishops who call it out. I am shocked! Absolutely shocked!!!! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 156
1/20/24 4:14 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Well, that's it.
The compromise that CoG preachers believed would never come.
Has come.
Sad beyond description.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
1/20/24 9:59 pm
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| Am I Missing Something? |
FG Minister |
The professor attends church with his wife. That church is gay-affirming. He takes communion twice. These facts, for some, conclude that the professor is gay-affirming himself, unfit to teach at Lee, and the COG must take action against this professor.
1. What if a pastor is asked to visit the hospital to pray with a dying gay man and he does? Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
2. What if a pastor's daughter identifies as a lesbian and still lives in a COG parsonage? When informed, the pastor does not kick his daughter out. Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
3. What if the Pastor's son is struggling with his sexuality and is seen going into a gay bar at the age of 21, while still living at the parsonage? When the pastor is informed, he does not kick his son out. Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
If the Lee professor appears to be gay-affirming by his actions, isn't the pastor also gay-affirming by his? Sometimes "guilt by association" is a leap too far. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
1/22/24 8:35 am
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| Re: Am I Missing Something? |
fire-starter |
| FG Minister wrote: | The professor attends church with his wife. That church is gay-affirming. He takes communion twice. These facts, for some, conclude that the professor is gay-affirming himself, unfit to teach at Lee, and the COG must take action against this professor.
1. What if a pastor is asked to visit the hospital to pray with a dying gay man and he does? Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
2. What if a pastor's daughter identifies as a lesbian and still lives in a COG parsonage? When informed, the pastor does not kick his daughter out. Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
3. What if the Pastor's son is struggling with his sexuality and is seen going into a gay bar at the age of 21, while still living at the parsonage? When the pastor is informed, he does not kick his son out. Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
If the Lee professor appears to be gay-affirming by his actions, isn't the pastor also gay-affirming by his? Sometimes "guilt by association" is a leap too far. |
I think the issue is the receiving of communion. The question is does that mean he is in communion with an affirming church, and if so what does that mean for him as a member of the COG. I don't think the COG, or any Pentecostal church, has ever really dealt with the question of communion in regards to where one receives the eucharist. The Roman catholics have lots to say on this topic, as do the Anglicans, Episcopalians, and Eastern Orthodox. But the COG not so much.
However, I remember a time when COG members were taken off the membership roll for attending another church's services-- especially if they were Baptist or Methodist. The COG has a history of "churching" people and I guess they are up to it again.
In terms of your questions above, these are all great questions. I have wondered the same, especially the newly passed rules that say a minister can't even use the pronouns of trans people per their request. Does that mean you have to sacrifice your relationship with a child or loved one over pronouns because your church said so? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1944
1/22/24 9:44 am
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| Re: Tennessee Overseer Responds To Travis Johnson Situation (L) |
georgiapath |
| FG Minister wrote: | The Overseer of TN gives remarks on the TN FaceBook page. There must be more to this story than we have heard thus far. You have to scroll down to his video.
https://www.facebook.com/COGTN/videos/384507164261866/
Edited by the Administrator to change to subject line casing and update video link to a direct link. |
What is the name of the Tennessee State Overseer? I can't find this. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7587
1/22/24 10:32 am
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| Re: Am I Missing Something? |
UncleJD |
| FG Minister wrote: | The professor attends church with his wife. That church is gay-affirming. He takes communion twice. These facts, for some, conclude that the professor is gay-affirming himself, unfit to teach at Lee, and the COG must take action against this professor.
1. What if a pastor is asked to visit the hospital to pray with a dying gay man and he does? Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
2. What if a pastor's daughter identifies as a lesbian and still lives in a COG parsonage? When informed, the pastor does not kick his daughter out. Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
3. What if the Pastor's son is struggling with his sexuality and is seen going into a gay bar at the age of 21, while still living at the parsonage? When the pastor is informed, he does not kick his son out. Is he gay-affirming and should his credentials be taken?
If the Lee professor appears to be gay-affirming by his actions, isn't the pastor also gay-affirming by his? Sometimes "guilt by association" is a leap too far. |
Are you new to Christianity? The 4 points have nothing to do with the first. Communion is WAY different than ministering to sinners. Communion is a statement of fellowship and agreement at the very least (if you're sacramental, then it is even deeper than that). Your 4 bullet points are not even remotely the same as taking communion, You could replace "gay-affirming" with "devil-worshipping" and have the same exact situation. A christian can do all 4 of the bullet points, but CANNOT have communion with a Satanic church. Just WOW! |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3139
1/22/24 12:51 pm
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| I Must Apologize |
FG Minister |
| I thought it was the Lord's Supper and participating in communion was my way of honoring the Lord's death at Calvary. I didn't know it had been changed to the Episcopal Supper. Sorry. My mistake. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
1/22/24 2:39 pm
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fire-starter |
I am curious how often COG ministers administer and receive communion with homosexuals or fornicators. Do you poll the audience beforehand to know who you are having communion with or who you are administering it to? If you did, would you exclude some folk?
I never thought of doing that. I always felt like communion was with Christ, the bread and wine, not with the church. I've received communion in a non-Pentecostal church before- was that wrong? |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1944
1/22/24 4:19 pm
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FLRon |
“However, I remember a time when COG members were taken off the membership roll for attending another church's services-- especially if they were Baptist or Methodist.”
Seriously? If that isn’t cultish I don’t know what is! Control the people much? Personally I wouldn’t step foot in a church that condoned such things.
_________________
“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 771
1/22/24 5:16 pm
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| Re: I Must Apologize |
Link |
| FG Minister wrote: | | I thought it was the Lord's Supper and participating in communion was my way of honoring the Lord's death at Calvary. I didn't know it had been changed to the Episcopal Supper. Sorry. My mistake. |
Koinonia could be translated 'common union.' If you have koinonia, you have oneness, fellowship, or communion with others.
Paul warns that a little leaven works itself throughout a lump of dough. He says to purge out the old leaven. Regarding the fornicator Paul wrote about, the Corinthian church was to deliver him over to Satan, not keep company with him or eat with him. Doesn't this imply it is contaminating to eat with the man.
What about false teachers that promote sexual immorality? Jesus was displeased with the church tolerating of this sort of thing.
In Jude and II Peter, the false brethren and false teachers were spots and blemishes on their love feasts, spots and blemishes while they feasted with them. Sacrificial lambs were to have no blemish and no spot. So apparently the false teachers were contaminating the dinner.
And the early church ate a supper together we call the Lord's Supper. It was instituted as a meal, and apparently was a meal in the first century. The Lord's Supper and love feast/feast of charity may have been the same thing originally. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/22/24 6:26 pm
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Link |
| fire-starter wrote: | I am curious how often COG ministers administer and receive communion with homosexuals or fornicators. Do you poll the audience beforehand to know who you are having communion with or who you are administering it to? If you did, would you exclude some folk?
I never thought of doing that. I always felt like communion was with Christ, the bread and wine, not with the church. I've received communion in a non-Pentecostal church before- was that wrong? |
It is communion with the body of Christ.
Christ's body was broken for us.
It is communion with the body of Christ.
Ye are the body of Christ.
I Corinthians 10.
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
When the Corinthians were eating supper, one man was hungry, and another was broken. This was no way to treat the body of Christ.
I Corinthians 11
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
And who is the body of Christ?
We read in the next chapter.
I Corinthians 12
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
The bread is the body of Christ. The church is the church. The church is the body of Christ. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
1/22/24 6:31 pm
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UncleJD |
| fire-starter wrote: | I am curious how often COG ministers administer and receive communion with homosexuals or fornicators. Do you poll the audience beforehand to know who you are having communion with or who you are administering it to? If you did, would you exclude some folk?
I never thought of doing that. I always felt like communion was with Christ, the bread and wine, not with the church. I've received communion in a non-Pentecostal church before- was that wrong? |
Maybe I'm just a simple man, but I'm pretty sure our pastor always exhorts us to examine one's self according to the scripture so that we don't get sick or die from taking the body and blood unworthily. At that point its up to the two parties to be of clean conscience before God. This is yet another lopsided point that sounds like someone from CNN came up with instead of an actual Christian with experience on the subject. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3139
1/23/24 9:31 am
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| Uncle Makes a Great Point |
FG Minister |
| His pastor tells the congregation that EACH PERSON should examine himself. Each person. That means I am responsible for my heart and my beliefs - not those around me. If MY heart is clear before God, then I, as a believer, am now qualified to receive the Lord's Supper. I think this should go for the professor as well. Now, if in his heart, the professor is LGBTQ affirming - then Lee has a problem. If not, this man, as Link said, is in communion with the body of Christ! The body of Christ may or may not have members sitting near the professor on those two Sunday mornings, but if his heart is right with God and he receives communion, then he is fully in communion with the rest of the body of Christ - whether that body has members in TN or in Nigeria. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 875
1/23/24 10:20 am
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