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 Paycheck Protection Program PPP |
Cojak |
My attention was called to the PPP because it was mentioned in a sermon of the pastor of a mega church last Sunday.
It reminded me of my concerns back then, that taking money from the PPP during the Covid Crisis just might come back to bite churches that took the money. He referred to it as being unequally yoked with unbelievers.
That wasn't my main concern. My concern was the separation of church and state. In a few years could some politician push for that money to be repaid? Billions were paid out to churches. Our Pastor was very glad to receive the money saying it kept us afloat.
What is you feelings toward this?
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24278
10/9/23 11:31 am
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UncleJD |
| It is my belief (based on facts I've read) that the PPP is the biggest cause there is for all of the inflation. How many "ministries" took money from this program? How many of those used it honestly? Did you notice how many people started driving around big, fancy, $100K trucks during that time? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3144
10/9/23 12:18 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Our little church voted to receive the PPP funds. As I recall, we had to document that the funds went towards payroll only. That is what we did and thankfully, we were able to make it through. After we sent in documentation as to how the money was used to make payroll, we were told, as per the original agreement, that the funds would be forgiven.
As the only employee of our local church, I can just say I received nothing more than my normal salary from the PPP, and I still am owed over a year’s salary due to the shortfall we experienced during COVID, long after the PPP ran out. I honestly don’t expect to ever see that money, apart from a true miracle. I am thankful we had a parsonage and were able to keep the lights on and my family fed. Definitely couldn’t afford a new car then or now. I drive a 2007 Dodge Ram that a member gave me as a gift several years before COVID. My wife drives a 2012 Yukon we are still making payments on, that we bought about 2 years before COVID. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12798
10/9/23 1:33 pm
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UncleJD |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Our little church voted to receive the PPP funds. As I recall, we had to document that the funds went towards payroll only. That is what we did and thankfully, we were able to make it through. After we sent in documentation as to how the money was used to make payroll, we were told, as per the original agreement, that the funds would be forgiven.
As the only employee of our local church, I can just say I received nothing more than my normal salary from the PPP, and I still am owed over a year’s salary due to the shortfall we experienced during COVID, long after the PPP ran out. I honestly don’t expect to ever see that money, apart from a true miracle. I am thankful we had a parsonage and were able to keep the lights on and my family fed. Definitely couldn’t afford a new car then or now. I drive a 2007 Dodge Ram that a member gave me as a gift several years before COVID. My wife drives a 2012 Yukon we are still making payments on, that we bought about 2 years before COVID. |
I was refering to large ministries who reportedly bought boats, cars, etc.. There was an article or two on it (seems like JO was one). I was also told by friends how to get a truck nearly 100% written off during that time (which I did not do, but the shortage of new 1 ton trucks in the market was driven by it). I'm glad it helped people with legit needs out, my daughter-in-law was one of them. But the bottom line is the government forced the shutdown, then they paid whopping sums of money for that, then created massive runaway inflation. Reportedly a lot of wealthy people found ways to get the money, enrich themselves, and never have to pay it back. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3144
10/10/23 8:11 am
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FLRon |
One thing that didn’t happen, but should have, was for churches with these very large payrolls to examine every ministry to see if it was truly effective and adjust the payroll accordingly.
The one thing that still bothers me about those loans is what happens when the economy takes the next nose dive? Do these churches think the government should bail them out again? Where does it end?
Finally, and this will infuriate some here, by accepting government money isn’t the church saying God isn’t our provider after all?
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“Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”
Voddie Baucham |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 775
10/10/23 12:47 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
We viewed it not as a bailout but as something directly tied to the shutdown/lockdown.
I personally am not fan of big government, or of the govt printing more money in a crisis, but it is what it is. At the time, it appeared to me to be a lifeline. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12798
10/10/23 1:49 pm
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Cojak |
I brought this up to get your ideas. As I said when I first heard about it it worried me that down the road some politician might make something of it.
Our church accepted the money and most of the members i know knew nothing about it until the pastor announced that the Government had kept us afloat, there was no church vote on it that I know of.
I think a church council should have something to say about this.
I asked our clerk a few weeks ago, 'who is on our church council?' He said we have none, the pastor prefers it this way.
But as it has been stated It is amazing how many BIG churches got in on the deal for millions. Some were taken to court methinks. such as a minister and his son:
Officials arrested two members of the Edwards family, which allegedly tried to use a fraudulent $8 million PPP loan to buy a house in ...
Yes we had some so called Christians smear others of good faith. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24278
10/10/23 7:01 pm
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georgiapath |
| I didn't know churches were eligable since they don't pay taxes. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7587
10/10/23 7:45 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| I always bring any significant decision of the church before the body, even if I technically don’t have to. It’s just the way I was raised and how I saw pastoring modeled by my grandfather, father and uncle. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12798
10/10/23 8:18 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| georgiapath wrote: | | I didn't know churches were eligable since they don't pay taxes. |
Nonprofits, such as churches, were eligible. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12798
10/10/23 8:21 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| georgiapath wrote: | | I didn't know churches were eligable since they don't pay taxes. |
The idea was that the person receiving the check paid taxes and needed money to live - while they closed everything down.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16621
10/11/23 8:10 am
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Link |
| UncleJD wrote: | | It is my belief (based on facts I've read) that the PPP is the biggest cause there is for all of the inflation. How many "ministries" took money from this program? How many of those used it honestly? Did you notice how many people started driving around big, fancy, $100K trucks during that time? |
Biden and Trump both were giving out lump sums of cash just for having filed taxes. Was PPP a much bigger program?
I have a number of children, so mine was quite large. I remembered economic theory, which I also teach my own students, that if money is printed without goods or sources to back it up, there is going to be inflation. If governments print money faster than the GDP grows... there are other factors... but generally that means inflation. A lot of people were not working and factories were not producing during the Covid lockdown, so I figured inflation would go way up.
Our lease was due and it's hard to get a house big enough in this area. I didn't want to be kicked out by landlords eager to sell at the peak of the market and have to find a rental when they decided or stand in line to bid on a house when they decided. I figured housing prices would go up. My wife was telling me the Lord was saying to her it was time to buy a house.
There were about 10 people bidding on the houses in the price range we were looking at, so we went up a notch in price. Even though this just wasn't happening for the most part in the market, we bid $5k under the asking price and got the place. Interest rates were low. After we bought, prices went up about 25% or so over the next year and a half or so. We are thankful to God for providing us a place to live.
When they gave that money out, I was thinking I have a job. Why are they giving it to me? Why don't they give it out a little more carefully to those in need. But I figured if they were diluting the currency, giving everyone money would offset future inflation.
I think a lot of people were probably foolish with the money with consumer spending, as usual. The money doled out may have been part of what drove the prices up on what new cars were being produced and on the slightly used cars, which trickled down to the junkers. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
10/11/23 10:47 am
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