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 Advancement of Elected Officials |
uthdude2000 |
Did anyone pay attention to or EVEN see this??
Advancement of Elected Officials with Tenure Remaining
In its recent meeting, the Church of God International Executive Council convened a special order to discuss the potential for advancement of those currently serving in elected positions who will have tenure remaining in their current position at the 2024 General Assembly.
After a careful review of the Church of God Minutes, Robert's Rules of Order, multiple parliamentary guidebooks, and resources, and a report from a Special Task Force made up of former executive committee members, parliamentarians, and legal experts, the International Executive Council unanimously determined that there is no provision, guideline, or precedent that would prohibit an elected official with tenure remaining in their current position from advancing by being nominated (and elected) to another office at the upcoming General Assembly.
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Now, we all know that the ones that made up this "Special Task Force" was just 'yes men' to Tim Hill and those currently 'serving' on your specially elected (by that I mean it is FIXED ELECTIONS) Council.
Question is WHY are they wanting to hold onto their power?
What is so special to THIS Council that THEY all of the sudden have 'found' these 'no provisions'?
Could this be what AJ Tomlinson tried to pull? Obviously the word TENURE being the optimal word, right? Well, remember that YOU if you made it to TEXAS this past General Assembly, voted to grant special unforeseen privileges in the event of a pandemic,... etc.
What say you?
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UthDude2000 |
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5/1/23 4:38 pm
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MrSippi |
I say you twisted that up about as much as it could be twisted.
This decision did not change tenure at all and has no benefit to Tim Hill whatsoever. This is just about Stewart and Lewis being able to move up. Also, claiming that elections were "fixed" is pretty bold statement considering that there were 18 new men elected to the council. I am curious if you can back up that statement.  |
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5/1/23 6:14 pm
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| fixed voting |
uthdude2000 |
I can CONFIRM that I was told that the elections are fixed, but the source is not available.
this decision COULD absolutely change the tenure. If you think, that I TWISTED it up, wait until HQ sends out subsequent emails concerning this subject, going forward.
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UthDude2000 |
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Posts: 218
5/2/23 11:34 am
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| Re: fixed voting |
MrSippi |
| uthdude2000 wrote: | | this decision COULD absolutely change the tenure.. |
How? The bylaws of the Church of God would have to be changed to change tenure. That can only be done by the General Assembly. They voted that down last year. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 156
5/2/23 2:00 pm
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| Tenure |
4thgeneration |
I found this information when I went online to report. It isn't hidden, it's there to click on and read. It is because you have two EC members who will be 2 years into a 4 year elected term (Stewart and Lewis). The issue was/is, would they be eligible to be elected to a different position on the EC with tenure in their current position still remaining. The conclusion of their fact finding group is there is nothing in our minutes that would prevent them from being elected to another EC position. Trying to weave some conspiracy theory into this conclusion is an insult to people looking for a correct answer to a question that was being asked.
As to rigged elections... again, nothing more than a conspiracy theory by people who can't seem to trust any system. IMO that speaks more of the theorist than anyone else. I've spent decades sitting on that floor during those elections. I personally know people who have been involved in the tabulation of those votes. To attack their integrity with totally unfounded accusations is IMO slander and unChristlike. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1607
5/2/23 2:55 pm
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| Re: Advancement of Elected Officials |
Mat |
| uthdude2000 wrote: |
Could this be what AJ Tomlinson tried to pull? Obviously the word TENURE being the optimal word, right? Well, remember that YOU if you made it to TEXAS this past General Assembly, voted to grant special unforeseen privileges in the event of a pandemic,... etc.
What say you? |
Just to be historically correct, term limits were introduced around the 1940s in the Church of God (20 years after A J. Tomlinson was gone). I think there was an issue with a General Overseer named "Walker."
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
5/2/23 3:13 pm
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| Re: fixed voting |
uthdude2000 |
| MrSippi wrote: | | uthdude2000 wrote: | | this decision COULD absolutely change the tenure.. |
How? The bylaws of the Church of God would have to be changed to change tenure. That can only be done by the General Assembly. They voted that down last year. |
XVI. Procedure for Filling Vacancy of An Elected Ministry Leader Under Extenuating Unusual Circumstances
RATIONALE: This motion addresses the impact of potential extenuating unusual circumstances that may alter tenure, election, and succession of elected leadership of the Church of God. Under all circumstances, it is significantly important to preserve the continuity of the governance of the church. This is accomplished by maintaining a policy regarding succession in office of general elected positions with full legal and ecclesiastical authority.
C. Policy Regarding Succession in Office of Elected Persons
Persons elected to an international, state/regional, or local position serve in their respective elective office until their successor is named, unless there has been a death or a person has been involuntarily removed, or voluntarily resigned. In extenuating unusual circumstances, including but not limited to the following: a global pandemic or regional or national epidemic; regional, national, or global war; natural disaster; or any other event that would demonstrate compelling impact upon the governance of the Church of God, an individual’s tenure in office might exceed the tenure limits set by the International General Assembly.
Pay special attention to the legal jargon that says..
extenuating unusual circumstances, including but not limited to the following: a global pandemic or regional or national epidemic; regional, national, or global war; natural disaster; or [u]any other event that would demonstrate compelling impact upon the governance of the Church of God[/i]
Ask yourself what is the definition of
~any other event
~impact upon the governance
It could be a regional issue in Cleveland or Eastern Tenn, that could cause an individual’s tenure in office might exceed the tenure limits set by the International General Assembly.
So yes sir, MrSippi it COULD impact tenure and YOU voted for it.
Oh yea and "bylaws of the Church of God would have to be changed", not according to the Article XVI that Hill suckered the General Assembly to vote, HANDS DOWN!
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UthDude2000 |
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Posts: 218
5/15/23 12:13 pm
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sheepdogandy |
Centralized government.
Ya gotta love it! 
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7306
5/15/23 12:42 pm
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| Re: fixed voting |
MrSippi |
| uthdude2000 wrote: | | MrSippi wrote: | | uthdude2000 wrote: | | this decision COULD absolutely change the tenure.. |
How? The bylaws of the Church of God would have to be changed to change tenure. That can only be done by the General Assembly. They voted that down last year. |
XVI. Procedure for Filling Vacancy of An Elected Ministry Leader Under Extenuating Unusual Circumstances
RATIONALE: This motion addresses the impact of potential extenuating unusual circumstances that may alter tenure, election, and succession of elected leadership of the Church of God. Under all circumstances, it is significantly important to preserve the continuity of the governance of the church. This is accomplished by maintaining a policy regarding succession in office of general elected positions with full legal and ecclesiastical authority.
C. Policy Regarding Succession in Office of Elected Persons
Persons elected to an international, state/regional, or local position serve in their respective elective office until their successor is named, unless there has been a death or a person has been involuntarily removed, or voluntarily resigned. In extenuating unusual circumstances, including but not limited to the following: a global pandemic or regional or national epidemic; regional, national, or global war; natural disaster; or any other event that would demonstrate compelling impact upon the governance of the Church of God, an individual’s tenure in office might exceed the tenure limits set by the International General Assembly.
Pay special attention to the legal jargon that says..
extenuating unusual circumstances, including but not limited to the following: a global pandemic or regional or national epidemic; regional, national, or global war; natural disaster; or [u]any other event that would demonstrate compelling impact upon the governance of the Church of God[/i]
Ask yourself what is the definition of
~any other event
~impact upon the governance
It could be a regional issue in Cleveland or Eastern Tenn, that could cause an individual’s tenure in office might exceed the tenure limits set by the International General Assembly.
So yes sir, MrSippi it COULD impact tenure and YOU voted for it.
Oh yea and "bylaws of the Church of God would have to be changed", not according to the Article XVI that Hill suckered the General Assembly to vote, HANDS DOWN! |
First, I didn't vote for anything. I wasn't there. Second, you are stretching that way beyond what it says. It seems obvious to me that you have made some kind of vendetta against Tim Hill the sense from which you are reading these things. |
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5/15/23 1:54 pm
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caviator |
MrSippi can you define for the forum what this part of the nomenclature means legally?
"or any other event that would demonstrate compelling impact upon the governance of the Church of God"
How much more could it be stretched than a compelling impact? |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 55
5/16/23 7:31 am
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| I discern the ... |
Mat |
I discern the spirit of Llewellyn in this thread. Over the history of the COG that spirit manifest itself in people who fancy themselves "church house lawyers" (something like "jail house lawyers") when it comes to attaching leadership.
Claiming the minutes/bylaws of the church are equal to civil/criminal laws, and can be enforced by real lawyers and Judges (not the religious "kangaroo courts") seems to rise us every couple of decades or so.
It should be asked, what ever happen to J. S. Llewellyn?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
5/16/23 8:44 am
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| Re: I discern the ... |
uthdude2000 |
| Mat wrote: | I discern the spirit of Llewellyn in this thread.
It should be asked, what ever happen to J. S. Llewellyn? |
forgive me for my ignorance (lack of knowledge) of WHOM this Llewellyn character is. I don't live here on ACTS, so I am not acquainted with his/her antics.
However, I see handwriting on the wall and the discernment that you may be feeling is not concerning me or my questions but maybe the integrity of information that is coming from COGHQ.
Thanks for this clarification.
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UthDude2000 |
Friendly Face
Posts: 218
5/17/23 11:17 am
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| Re: I discern the ... |
Mat |
| uthdude2000 wrote: | | Mat wrote: | I discern the spirit of Llewellyn in this thread.
It should be asked, what ever happen to J. S. Llewellyn? |
forgive me for my ignorance (lack of knowledge) of WHOM this Llewellyn character is. I don't live here on ACTS, so I am not acquainted with his/her antics.
However, I see handwriting on the wall and the discernment that you may be feeling is not concerning me or my questions but maybe the integrity of information that is coming from COGHQ.
Thanks for this clarification. |
J. S. Llewellyn was one three members of a committee who investigated A. J. Tomlinson in 1923, which led to a split. Llewellyn was a colorful character (being nice) who was the primary force behind legal action (civil courts) against A. J. Tomlinson.
In time the courts dismissed the financial charges against Tomlinson (based on an audit which was deeded incomplete by a judge), but the court actions over the name "Church of God" continued until 1952.
Llewellyn had his own "parting of the ways" with the COG, I think sometime before Lee died (1927?). If you read some of the articles of the Evangel at the time, Llewellyn was focused on Tomlinson alleged transgression of the minutes. One writer points that Llewellyn played "fast and loss" with his own business dealing with the COG.
What I'm saying about the spirit of Llewellyn is, "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." Is God who saves His church, not "church house lawyers."
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
5/17/23 1:24 pm
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| Re: I discern the ... |
uthdude2000 |
[quote="Mat"][quote="uthdude2000"] | Mat wrote: |
J. S. Llewellyn was one three members of a committee who investigated A. J. Tomlinson in 1923, which led to a split. Llewellyn was a colorful character (being nice) who was the primary force behind legal action (civil courts) against A. J. Tomlinson.
Mat |
So, NOW we are speaking of something that happened 100 years ago, but yet refuse to acknowledge the antics that are being spewed out of Cleveland, concerning a pending NON-DESCRIPTIVE reason for COGHQ to entend tenure of any and/or all Elected officials.
Am I wrong?
Let's talk about it, if you dare.
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UthDude2000 |
Friendly Face
Posts: 218
5/17/23 4:19 pm
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Cojak |
On the surface, it does appear to be away to 'extend' tenure. Other wise there would be no reason to bring it up. If a person was elected to another job you would assume the tenure would end as a normal rotation, say if tenure was 4 years, the person would spend 2 yrs in two different jobs, then return to the 'work' force.
Just my thinking.
I would like to see a requirement of 8 yrs pastoring or evangelizing between ALL the top 20-30 jobs (positions). 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24284
5/17/23 10:32 pm
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Cojak |
On the surface, it does appear to be a way to 'extend' tenure. Other wise there would be no reason to bring it up. If a person was elected to another job you would assume the tenure would end as a normal rotation, say if tenure was 4 years, the person would spend 2 yrs in two different jobs, then return to the 'work' force.
Just my thinking.
I would like to see a requirement of 8 yrs pastoring or evangelizing between ALL the top 20-30 jobs (positions).
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24284
5/17/23 10:33 pm
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uthdude2000 |
| Cojak wrote: | On the surface, it does appear to be away to 'extend' tenure. Other wise there would be no reason to bring it up. If a person was elected to another job you would assume the tenure would end as a normal rotation, say if tenure was 4 years, the person would spend 2 yrs in two different jobs, then return to the 'work' force.
Just my thinking.
I would like to see a requirement of 8 yrs pastoring or evangelizing between ALL the top 20-30 jobs (positions). |
FINALLY!!!
Someone wanting to converse about a reason to bring it up, that was WHAT I'm trying to get others to talk about.
Yes, I have been concerned for YEARS that some up top 'think' they are the ONLY ones to run a particular state business until they get to Cleveland, then they are too BIG to go back to Pastoring and stay there.
I'd love to see a movement that once they have served their 2 terms in state work, HQ work, they 'retire' from overseership and go back to Pastoring.
thoughts...???
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UthDude2000 |
Friendly Face
Posts: 218
5/18/23 8:03 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
Uthdude,
Mat is CoGoP, so while he might have an opinion on this, I really don’t think he’s nearly as invested in it as you seem to be. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12813
5/18/23 9:00 am
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| More Academic? |
Mat |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Uthdude,
Mat is CoGoP, so while he might have an opinion on this, I really don’t think he’s nearly as invested in it as you seem to be. |
True, it might be more academic to me, other than the 1923 Split and resulting fallout. However, who knows what the future holds, plus I am interested in the developments of the Church of God Movement. I'm more like a fan in the bleachers watching the players on the field.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
5/18/23 11:49 am
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Brimfull |
| Nothing about uthdude2000's post verifies a thing except that uthdude2000 loves spinning off the wall conspiracy theories and that uthdude2000 has a grudge and grievance against the Bishop. Tim Hill's tenure is over in 2024. No debate. The measure approved in the Council of 18 has nothing to do with Hill, Culpepper or Ramirez. To spin it in any other way is garbage similar to the goofball stuff that's always brewing on other sites unfriendly toward the Church of God and it's leaders. |
Newbie
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5/20/23 6:27 pm
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