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COVID is REAL. People Have Died. How To DISCUSS It Here.
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Post COVID is REAL. People Have Died. How To DISCUSS It Here. doyle
With all the conflicting reports about COVID, and then denials of the same reports by those who made them, it is no wonder some find it difficult to know what is actually true. CDC reports and retractions are an example.

WHAT WE DO KNOW is that COVID is real; many people have died. We also know that many may have died from other causes but it was listed as COVID. How many of those wrong listings have been made, we don't know.

So, we are not going to allow the Board to be used to DENY that COVID is real. It is real and it can be deadly. Families that have lost Loved Ones know that to be absolutely true.

YOUR EXPERIENCES / STRUGGLES
However, there is MUCH to be discussed. Our primary concern here is your experiences; how your life has been affected; your family, your church, you personally and how you are dealing with it all. This Board is WIDE OPEN to hear about you and yours which includes our wider Church Community.

JUST BECAUSE someone claims something is true about the COVID Epidemic, does not mean it is true. So, to add validity to a statement, quote the source from which is taken. I do that almost religiously. "According to an article I read"..."According to a feature article in this news source"...etc.

Publishing the source will help, but even that does not mean the info is true. It does however give THE VIEWER the ability to judge as to whether he or she has confidence in that source.

Hey, almost all of we preachers do that all the time. "According to the Gospel of Matthew" or whatever text we're using, quoting the source brings a greater sense of validity and authority to what we say. Also, it defers responsibility to the source from which it is reported.

As you know, there is a MAJOR DIFFERENCE between verified facts, rumors and personal OPINIONS. In today's heated political environment, with so many different groups wanting to twist facts to fit or promote their cause,
it is more difficult to know what is really true.

With friends and Loved Ones either sick or have died from COVID, we know it can be deadly. Those who have lost Loved Ones are sure of that. Does the number who have died warrant locking down the country? The opinions about that range from "Yes, No, Maybe, Sometimes, In Some Places" and on and on.

THE PUBLISHING OF OPINION:
Everybody has an opinion about almost everything. That is OK too AS LONG as the opinion is preceded by three little words, "IN MY OPINION." Just because someone has an opinion, has no bearing whatsoever on whether it is correct or not. It is simply their opinion.

OUR RULES FOR POSTING ARE VERY EASY. They are "One, Two, Three."

ONE:If you post a news story or statistics to support your opinion, BEGIN with the two words "ACCORDING TO..and then give the name of the source.

IF IT IS YOUR OPINION, begin with THREE little words, "IN MY OPINION..."

DO WE CENSOR POSTS? Almost never, but we reserve the right to do so.
If someone was intentionally posting information to mislead people or put them in harms way, we would remove that. If someone attempted to use our Board to make personalized or vicious and negative comments about others, we would remove those posts and that persons ability to post if they did not stop. That is to protect our Viewers from anyone who would seek to use the Board to do them harm.

We do not condone posts with cursing. Neither do we allow posts that seek to defame Scripture, its contents or personalities therein. This is a private Board. We reserve the right to remove posts promoting personalities, causes, and political entities with which we disagree.

Doyle
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Last edited by doyle on 12/22/20 1:47 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post I agree. The virus is quite real. roughridercog
But at the same time I believe the paranoia is being manufactured and politicized and numbers inflated.
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Post Re: I agree. The virus is quite real. Dave Dorsey
roughridercog wrote:
But at the same time I believe the paranoia is being manufactured and politicized and numbers inflated.

What evidence supports this belief for you? Or is it just something you feel is true?
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12/1/20 10:03 am


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Post Re: I agree. The virus is quite real. roughridercog
Dave Dorsey wrote:
roughridercog wrote:
But at the same time I believe the paranoia is being manufactured and politicized and numbers inflated.

What evidence supports this belief for you? Or is it just something you feel is true?


A perfect example of this is the fake necessity of mail in voting. Just citing my opinion.
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Post Re: I agree. The virus is quite real. - (L) Could It Be True
Dave Dorsey wrote:
roughridercog wrote:
But at the same time I believe the paranoia is being manufactured and politicized and numbers inflated.

What evidence supports this belief for you? Or is it just something you feel is true?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=WjX1pfFxjmc&fbclid=IwAR1rd6NNL-hB1LZwC8t5dsr3l45NJ1ck0SpTVfV6WPc0HaX3qZ8dHDc1NLE

And the fact that Dr Birks said early on that any death would be counted as a covid death regardless of the cause if covid was present. So people who are already passing away in hospice facilities are counted as covid deaths if they test positive before dying.

There was a lengthy post with links and references to other news sources backing up the inflated numbers claim and the thread was moved to double secret probation. And then the poster was banned for questioning the move.

And to Doyle's OP, I have not seen anyone say that covid is not real.
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Last edited by Could It Be True on 12/1/20 11:22 am; edited 3 times in total
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12/1/20 11:05 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
OAN... give me a break! Rolling Eyes [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/1/20 11:09 am


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Post Shoot the messenger? Could It Be True
Dave Dorsey wrote:
OAN... give me a break! :roll:


The OAN story includes data taken from directly from the CDC website.

You seem to have a habit of simply dismissing the message because you don't like the messenger. That's why you ban people who disagree with you. It's easier than defending your position. Now I suppose you'll prove me right by banning me for speaking truth.
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Post Re: COVID is REAL. People Have Died. How To DISCUSS It Here. Could It Be True
doyle wrote:
WHAT WE DO KNOW is that COVID is real;


I have not seen anyone say otherwise.
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12/1/20 11:16 am


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Post Re: Shoot the messenger? Dave Dorsey
Could It Be True wrote:
Now I suppose you'll prove me right by banning me for speaking truth.

Sorry to ruin your martyrdom, but no.

Here's what's happening in my view: Acts is rapidly becoming a forum for the sharing of baseless conspiracy theories. And make no mistake about it, this has and will continue to drive posters away.

Doyle, with respect, I believe you need to decide which audience you want Actscelerate to cater to, because it can't be both. Do we want to cater to ministers who need a safe place to discuss their ministries, beliefs, challenges, and prayer needs?

Or do we want Actscelerate to be a place for people to share widely debunked theories about hospitals getting money for COVID cases, overdiagnosing, using the pandemic to enable fraudulent voting, nonsense about Dominion voting machines, and more?

Because if we choose the latter, we will lose the former. I don't believe Actscelerate has any obligation to serve as a platform for conspiracy-minded people who can no longer share baseless facts on Facebook without their posts being countered with a fact check. I especially do not believe Acts should do that at the expense of providing a place for the first group I described.

Doyle, I believe this is a choose ye this day moment. Conspiracy mongering destroys communities and it has already gotten a strong head start here. There are plenty of places on the internet where people can go to read conspiracy theories of the left or the right. Acts shouldn't be one of them.
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12/1/20 11:38 am


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Post The COG Apostle
I’m sorry, Doyle. You are dealing with a situation where people are believing in right-wing conspiracies, believing that all of this was a set up to defeat Trump. They still believe it no matter how much truth you preach. It is a cult. The Cult of Trump. I always wondered how people would be deceived in the last day and now I get it. I am seeing it. The worship of this man has shocked me. QAnon lives inside the church. They believe the election was stolen. They believe the virus is hyped up. Of course, that is a miracle because millions have suffered all over the world just to make Trump look bad.

God have mercy.
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Post Carolyn Smith
I don't know what to believe about the election. I don't trust either side. In my opinion, they would all lie if it benefited them. I am waiting for the dust to settle and see what happens. Because the media proclaimed Biden the winner does not make it so, and because Trump disputes it doesn't make it so. We shall see. I want truth to prevail.

A lot of good people are deceived about the conspiracy theories...I honestly don't know what's real and what isn't but I don't listen to or subscribe to AON. But it does make you wonder if where there's smoke, there's fire. I certainly don't put much faith in the main stream media.

My opinions are just that - my opinions! We all have them, and we're all entitled to them. But I'm also not stupid, so please don't imply that in your posts, either. Wink Wink
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Post Cojak
It is for sure (IMO) that you will never know the TRUTH about the election if you HIGHLY favor one side. If Trump loses all his challenges, it will still be said by some of my family and many I know, "Well you know Soros bought everyone out, Trump really won!"
Then of course if Biden's bid was shot down by the courts and Trump got 4 more, there would be more hate on the other side claiming TRUMP done the dirty deed thru the courts.
WE are so divided there will be no definitive answer for both sides. I love this country and hate to see this BIG DIVIDE.

I am waiting to hear my president go 'twit crazy about how stupid Barr is now. How he sold out. I HOPE he does not do that, but I would not be surprised. I am afraid the President has fallen into the trap of many CEOs that will have only 'YES' men. A smart leader listens to the advisors he put confidence in. Cool
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12/1/20 8:12 pm


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Post Conspiracy theory? Could It Be True
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Here's what's happening in my view: Acts is rapidly becoming a forum for the sharing of baseless conspiracy theories.

Or do we want Actscelerate to be a place for people to share widely debunked theories about hospitals getting money for COVID cases, overdiagnosing, using the pandemic to enable fraudulent voting, nonsense about Dominion voting machines, and more?


A couple of things:

How can something be a conspiracy theory if the info is based on CDC data?

As far as hospitals receiving more money for covid cases/covid deaths I will draw from a quote by Dr. Scott Jensen who is also a GOP state legislator in Minnesota. In a story that was run by USA Today this is what Dr. Jensen said:

Quote:
Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they're Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000. Jensen clarified in the video that he doesn't think physicians are "gaming the system" so much as other "players," such as hospital administrators, who he said may pressure physicians to cite all diagnoses, including "probable" COVID-19, on discharge papers or death certificates to get the higher Medicare allocation allowed under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act. He noted that some states, including his home state of Minnesota, as well as California, list only laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 diagnoses. Others, specifically New York, list all presumed cases, which is allowed under guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as of mid-April and which will result in a larger payout.


You will notice in that quote Dr Jensen used the words probable and presumed. That means in some states they don't even have to have a positive test. The Dr just has to presume the patient had covid.

As far as the Dominion election system is concerned, Sidney Powell claims to have sworn affidavits (under the penalty of perjury) from Dominion employees who have explained how the algorithms were programmed to do linear transfers. All of that is in the suit she filed last week in Georgia. IN MY OPINION, it is very telling that Dominion is located in Canada and the Canadian government doesn't even trust them to do their elections.
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Post Dave Dorsey
Hospitals across the nation are struggling to stay afloat. This is information that has been debunked for months. Jensen in particular, who first made these statements in April, has been widely debunked and exposed as a crackpot, as a simple Google search will show. The information about hospitals getting extra bonus money for coronavirus deaths is false. And here is the CDC guidance about classification. It does not permit the willy-nilly identification of COVID. It is intended for medical professionals endeavoring to conclude the correct cause of death. And most importantly, this guidance was published when testing was still difficult to obtain which is the main reason it was created:

Quote:
In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as ‘probable’ or ‘presumed.’ In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible.


No one here has the time to continue to whack conspiracy moles. Nor should they have to. The forum is either going to be a place where that stuff exists and thrives or it's going to be the forum it was intended to be. That's the decision that needs to be made.
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Post It was real to me and my wife JLarry
I had it along with double pneumonia. Pneumonia almost kicked my rear.

Now my nephew in Al and his wife have it. (a pCOG Pastor)
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Post ReallY? - (L) Could It Be True
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Hospitals across the nation are struggling to stay afloat. This is information that has been debunked for months.


I'm not sure who debunked it. You cite no source. I can tell you that here where I live hospitals have laid a ton of people off. They got killed financially when all the elective procedures were canceled for 3 months.

Here is a story that backs up what Dr Jensen is saying:

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/rebound/keeping-you-safe/american-hospitals-are-bleeding-cash-try-to-stay-afloat-to-serve-communities

I'm glad to see we agree on one thing. People don't have to be tested to be counted in the numbers.

Here is a story about a Shelby County, TN woman who died in February and her family was sent a letter in June saying she tested positive for covid. Do you think stuff like this is an isolated event?

https://www.localmemphis.com/article/news/investigations/i-team/shelby-county-woman-died-6-months-ago-letter-covid-19-positive/522-bcd8c6e1-5d75-4e07-af99-ed7babed909b


You also made a prior statement about folks posting things here that can't get by the Facebook fact checkers. Well I happen to know that all of the links and stories used and referred to in the thread that you hid (so much for the policy laid out by Doyle of documenting what you write and letting the reader decide) were posted on his Facebook page and none of them have been tagged, removed or otherwise commented on by the democratic donors that serve as Facebook fact checkers. So much for that false claim you made.

I've said all I'm going to say about this. You cannot have a substantive discussion with folks who just dismiss sources they disagree with and just claim everything has been debunked while provided no documentation for their claims. They sound like Joe Biden when he falsely claims that all of the Biden Family corruption has been investigated and proven to be false.

There is no doubt that covid is real and people have died. No one I know has ever claimed otherwise. One death is one too many and we grieve with those who have lost loved ones. But, IN MY OPINION, and based on credible things I've read I think covid has been overblown and the numbers have been inflated to scare us into allowing the government to take more control over our lives with unconstitutional and unnecessary lock downs and restrictions. In many ways the cure has become worse than the sickness. covid have a greater than 99% recovery rate.

And I'll just leave it that on this subject.
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Last edited by Could It Be True on 12/2/20 9:08 am; edited 5 times in total
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Post Re: It was real to me and my wife Could It Be True
JLarry wrote:
I had it along with double pneumonia. Pneumonia almost kicked my rear.

Now my nephew in Al and his wife have it. (a pCOG Pastor)


I know people who have had covid and have had the flu and they say the same thing. For them covid was nothing compared to the flu.
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Post Dave Dorsey
Why don't the hospitals in your area just use all that magic bonus cash they get from misdiagnosing COVID cases to pay their staff?

BTW, I'm not aware of any threads of yours that I hid. I temporarily moved one thread from a poster so it could be discussed by the admin team, but that poster wasn't you. I also did not move or delete any subsequent threads from that poster or take any action against his account.
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Post 1 more thing Could It Be True
Dave Dorsey wrote:
Why don't the hospitals in your area just use all that magic bonus cash they get from misdiagnosing COVID cases to pay their staff?

BTW, I'm not aware of any threads of yours that I hid. I temporarily moved one thread from a poster so it could be discussed by the admin team, but that poster wasn't you. I also did not move or delete any subsequent threads from that poster or take any action against his account.


It appears they are doing just that. I had a conversation with someone I know who had a parent pass away from cancer. The hospital wanted to put covid on the death certificate and the family refused, in part because he was never tested. They were then informed that the hospital could get more money if covid was on the death certificate. This is a first hand experience that was told to me.

I did not say it was my thread that was hidden or moved. I said a thread was hidden away. And it is my understanding that the poster has been banned.

I've said all I'm going to say about this. You cannot have a substantive discussion with folks who just dismiss sources they disagree with and just claim everything has been debunked while provided no documentation for their claims. They sound like Joe Biden when he falsely claims that all of the Biden Family corruption has been investigated and proven to be false.

There is no doubt that covid is real and people have died. No one I know has ever claimed otherwise. One death is one too many and we grieve with those who have lost loved ones. But, IN MY OPINION, and based on credible things I've read I think covid has been overblown and the numbers have been inflated to scare us into allowing the government to take more control over our lives with unconstitutional and unnecessary lock downs and restrictions. In many ways the cure has become worse than the sickness. covid has a greater than 99% recovery rate and we are treating it like the black plague.

And I'll just leave it that on this subject.
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Post Dave Dorsey
The poster certainly was not banned because of the COVID thread, because nothing in that thread was against the rules (even though I moved it so the team could look at it in more detail). If the poster is banned, he may have done something that was against the Acts terms of use that was noticed by another admin. If you have access to him, perhaps you could ask him. But I moved one thread, with a note, and took no further action.

Anyway, one of the major methods for evaluating information is evaluating the credibility of the source. Sources such as OAN, Jensen, and others cited by the conspiracy-minded have no crediblity because of how they vet (or rather don't vet) information and publish things that are false. No one owes it to you to litigate this to you every time you cite a source. If you want your arguments to be taken seriously, start with credible sources.

And you could save us all some time by googling for debunkings on your own. This is one of the first things I do when I am evaluating information. Search for "[claim] debunked" and see what you get. See if the people claiming to debunk it are credible, and see what sources they are appealing to.
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