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Lee University professors BLM - Are u kidding me!!
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Post Eddie Robbins
You can do the search on the Bradley County property webpage to verify who owns what. Acts-pert Poster
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7/1/20 12:53 pm


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Post D Aaron Scott
Diddlete

Last edited by Aaron Scott on 7/5/20 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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7/1/20 1:35 pm


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Post Re: Eddie... Eddie Robbins
Aaron Scott wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Aaron Scott wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
This is NOT a Church of God issue. The Church of God has zero authority in hiring or firing ANYBODY at Lee University. Not even the President.


The right to hire and fire might have been granted to Lee University by Church of God leadership, but is not a wholly independent organization.

I would also ask the question of who owns the property that Lee sits on? I don't know the answer to that, but I imagine that the Church of God has a place in there somewhere.


The right to hire and fire is given to Lee by the Board of Directors, not the COG.


You are correct about the Board of Directors. But the Board of Directors is appointed by the Executives of the Church of God.

I would imagine that the Board of Directors isn't going to want to do anything that might ensure that they are no re-appointed. And I would think the Execs (can't remember if it is the Council or Committee) aren't going to want to do anything that would mean they aren't going to be re-elected to future positions.

But I do agree that the COG leadership does not directly make hire and fire decisions for Lee. That would indeed be a politicized mess, I would think. But there is an overarching control of the matter (I think there are also some "requirements" that professors must be in accord with Church of God doctrine).


That is correct! Just what I said. FYI, COG leadership can only replace 2 board members each Assembly year, if they choose to. That way, a rogue overseer can’t clean house.

My only reason for posting was for education purposes. A lot of people don’t realize the legal relationship between the COG and Lee. Lee has always cooperated with COG leadership. As far as I know, for many years, this has been the case. That’s a good thing!
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7/1/20 2:04 pm


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Post Its more than a monument ... Mat
Its more than a monument, but the proximity to "Lee University" is unfortunate, and that the school is on Lee Hwy/Ocoee (US 11) is a problem as well. The Church of God has come a long way from the "bad-old-days" of segregation, which I think F. J. Lee oversaw, but I foresee pressure to rename US 11, and it can only help the school to support removing the statue (IMHO). Many well known Christian colleges have changed their name - yes, I know the difference between Robert E. Lee and F. J. Lee, but why wait when its your turn in the spot light.

I was born in Cleveland (1955), and I remember the "ward" system where there was a black section of town (5th Ward?). I remember the trouble the rednecks up 64 in Polk County made for the those who lived in the ward. It would help, not hurt, the Church of God to reach forward and not allow the relics of the old south define you. As I said, you've come so far, let it go so you can look forward.

As, the removal of professors can be a tricky public relations issue. You got to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves so your good is not evil spoken of.

Mat
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7/1/20 4:08 pm


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Post Re: Dave...the Johns DO support Black Lives Matter Carolyn Smith
Aaron Scott wrote:
It is posted on their FB site. Yes, they make it clear that they don't support all that BLM supports, but they do support BLM. Said it clear as day.

That is the second time they have run afoul, I think, of the general consensus of the Church of God.

We ALL believe that black lives should and do matter. I tend to "get" what it means to say that you support BLM (that sentiment, if not at all the organization).

It's about like us starting an organization that says "Jesus is Lord," having a horrible platform of beliefs, and then saying, "Don't you believe that Jesus is lord?" That is, the NAME of the organization is such that even expressing the sentiment can be taken to be supporting the organization.


Please be careful about naming names as I seem to recall that opens Doyle up to charges of libel and slander. Perhaps those names need removing, Dave?
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7/1/20 10:13 pm


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Post Re: Dave...the Johns DO support Black Lives Matter Eddie Robbins
Carolyn Smith wrote:
Aaron Scott wrote:
It is posted on their FB site. Yes, they make it clear that they don't support all that BLM supports, but they do support BLM. Said it clear as day.

That is the second time they have run afoul, I think, of the general consensus of the Church of God.

We ALL believe that black lives should and do matter. I tend to "get" what it means to say that you support BLM (that sentiment, if not at all the organization).

It's about like us starting an organization that says "Jesus is Lord," having a horrible platform of beliefs, and then saying, "Don't you believe that Jesus is lord?" That is, the NAME of the organization is such that even expressing the sentiment can be taken to be supporting the organization.


Please be careful about naming names as I seem to recall that opens Doyle up to charges of libel and slander. Perhaps those names need removing, Dave?


I didn’t notice that and yes, there is no reason to name names Another note....I wonder how many times it will have to be explained that there is a difference between BLM and the organization of the same name? At some point, when they continue to mix the two, it becomes evident that they aren’t really trying.
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7/2/20 7:01 am


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Post Here is what BLM Believes FG Minister
Maybe the Lee Professors could tell us which ones of these they support and which they disagree with. This is copied and pasted from the BLM website. You will notice they do not support the traditional Western family structure, but they affirm the Queer agenda, and support the trans movement. Read for yourself...

We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities.

We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.

We intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.

We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.

We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.
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7/2/20 7:17 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
FG... the post directly above yours addresses this.

Maybe you can tell us which ones you support and disagree with.

Here's the main one I agree with: That black lives matter.
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7/2/20 7:50 am


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Post D Aaron Scott
Diddlete

Last edited by Aaron Scott on 7/5/20 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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7/2/20 8:56 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
Aaron, are they Lee professors? Acts-pert Poster
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7/2/20 11:00 am


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Post D Aaron Scott
Diddlete

Last edited by Aaron Scott on 7/5/20 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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7/2/20 12:22 pm


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Post Confederacy or Union? Link Mat
In all this discussion about monuments and statues for a war that was fought 160 years ago, I would like to know from those who worry about the issue of removing them, are you committed to the "United" States of America or are you wanting to preserve the "Confederate" states?

When we had a president liberals loved and conservatives hated, the state of TX talked about secession, and some in places like Idaho continue to reject being part of the USA.

Now that there is a president liberals hate, the state of CA has talked about secession, and many say "not my president".

In the state of Hawaii, those that are descended from the native Hawaiians talk of secession.

So, is it import to you to hold on to the idea of the confederacy and the right to secession from the union, to the point that you would allow states to secede it there was a vote to leave?

The article says, "In June 1861, Bradley County voted 1,382 to 507 in favor of remaining in the Union, according to information provided by the Museum Center at 5ive Points." East Tennessee was pro-union, and if I remember right provided more men for the union army than the confederate. However, middle and west Tennessee had large numbers of slaves and forced the people in east Tennessee to go along with secession. If you visit Joneborough in east TN, you will learn that it was the home of the first "Abolitionist" newspaper. Near's a link:

https://ruralorganizing.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/southern-peoples-history-jonesborough-tn-home-of-the-first-abolitionist-newspaper-in-the-us/

The Daughters of the Confederacy were part of a propaganda effort to "white-wash" history and rewrite the reasons for the Civil War. They wanted it to be about "state's rights" and the right to secede from the union (the lost cause), and not about the right to hold humans as property (slavery). The monument on Ocoee (in front of Lee U.) was put up 50 years after the war. You have got to ask why.

So, are you for the union, or are you for each state to have the right to secede? Do you say the "Pledge of Allegiance" to the US flag and sing the national anthem? Have you ever thought that the promotion of the "lost cause" sounds like a justification of secession and slavery to those who fought for the union and those who were held as property in the name of state's rights?

Mat
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7/3/20 7:09 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
Good stuff, Mat. It is amazing to me that people want to hang onto a 4-5 year period of time in which we Southerners left the United States of America because we wanted to hold people in slavery. And this is supposed to be the great heritage we have so much that we still want to celebrate it with flags and monuments? One of the funny things I saw in Cleveland was anti-protesters standing there trying to hold onto their Confederate monument while they were waving an American flag. Really messed up stuff. It’s time to remove these idols from the center of town and be welcoming to all people. I lived in Cleveland for 10 years, married a Clevelander, consider it my second home and will retire there in a few years. That’s why I care. Acts-pert Poster
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7/3/20 9:52 am


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Post sheepdogandy
The stars and stripes flew over slavery a lot longer than the stars and bars.

The distorted and incorrect version of US history spoken by the media, only inflames the passions of those who wish to replace our Constitution with Communism.

Remember the victors get to write the history.
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7/3/20 10:10 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Very good post, Mat. Now 67% friendlier!
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7/3/20 10:33 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
sheepdogandy wrote:
Remember the victors get to write the history.

And yet we're surrounded by statues and memorials to traitors who killed Americans primarily for the purpose of preserving chattel slavery.

Seems like the victors missed the boat on this one.
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7/3/20 10:41 am


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Post It will not be "our" America ... Mat
In all my discussions with younger people at church and in the community, I realize my opinion is from another generation and experience. The countries is changing and maybe I am not, but the country the next generation takes over will not be "our" America, its theirs.

Next year this time most likely Biden will be President and the Democrats will control the House and maybe the Senate. We older Americans need to look to what the nation will be - anti-Christian - open borders - liberal power in all institutions. The economy will restructure, but don't worry the very rich will stay very rich, taxes will go up on everybody and favor the liberal states (NY, CA, IL, etc). Biden will be naming (maybe 2) new Supreme Court justices in his first year, and conservative values will be out.

The US will pour money in to every "globalist" organization it can - UN - WHO - NATO - World Bank - etc - all with borrowed money. China will own our economy and our military will be downgraded. We will give money and support to every dictatorship in the world - Cuba - Venezuela - Iran - and any others you can name. The real enemy will be capitalism and the businesses, while the politicians take money from Wall Street and Banking interest.

No, it will not be the country we have known, and I would tell young people not to join the military to "fight and die" for this country. Our police will continue to be targets, until we get a police force just like Mexico. It will be good for students during this time, as college will be free, student loans will be forgiven and there will be no testing or grades interfere with their protest time.

This will last for about two years, then the economy will crash due to a monetary crises, cities will become more dangerous than third world countries and all immigrants will get the vote (along with felons). HOWEVER, to the surprise of the supporters of "Black Lives Matter", the open borders new voters will result in Hispanics/Latinos becoming the most powerful minority and their way to majority, displacing first the Black community and then the White community (the good news is many Hispanics/Latinos have Christian values).

So us older white guys need to realize what is going to happen, as the "good old USA" will be no more. Before we die, the best thing to do is spend all our money on ourselves before the new generation puts us in the nursing home so the next pandemic can take us out (senior euthanasia).

Mat
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7/4/20 7:31 am


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Post sheepdogandy
Depressing scenario.

You left out the armed resistance mounted by the "good ol boys".

To Dave's post, the Confederacy was not made up of traitors.

It was not a "Civil War".

It was a war for Southern independence.

This has been argued time and again on this site.
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Post Do you support the .... Mat
sheepdogandy wrote:
Depressing scenario.

You left out the armed resistance mounted by the "good ol boys".

To Dave's post, the Confederacy was not made up of traitors.

It was not a "Civil War".

It was a war for Southern independence.

This has been argued time and again on this site.


Do you support the right a state (or states) to secede from the Union? Or of a portion of a state to secede from a state?

I don't know any one on the forum who thought the "CHOP" in Settle was a good move, but in practice that was their avowed goal.

Mat

PS While I was not "prophesying" above, or trying to give my words weight by saying "God revealed to me", it is just my thoughts if the extreme rhetoric is taken at face value. I'm not sure I'm going to join a "good-old boys" resistance, as I don't think we have many young people who would join us - but since the tax laws will be changed so inheritance we be taken by the government, I say lets sit back, enjoy the show and spend it before they take it.
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Post Eddie Robbins
I’m embarrassed and hurt by people in my family who held slaves and left the USA to in order to keep slaves. You think for a moment I want to honor them by having some stupid flag or monument? Of course not. It is a horrible stain on my ancestors.

I did DNA a few years back and found where my great-grandfather impregnated a young slave girl and the baby stayed with her mother. I discovered their descendants and have become really good friends with my second cousin who is black. She is very gracious about the situation. I am thankful for finding her.
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7/4/20 10:13 am


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