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 Bishop Hill & Executive Committee Condemn Racism |
Carolyn Smith |
From Faith News Network:
Cleveland, TN–In response to multiple racist acts over the past few weeks, Dr. Timothy M. Hill, General Overseer of the Church of God, issued the following condemnation of such hate-driven and bigoted actions:
“Racism is sin. God despises it. It is not a matter of ‘we must do better.’ Instead, it is a matter that all people are created equal. Brutality and homicide must stop, whether from a citizen or those in authority. People of all races must be protected, respected and be able to live without fear.
I unequivocally condemn racist acts against any and all people. Such actions are something that should never be tolerated by a God-fearing society. Every man, woman, boy, and girl were created in the image of God. Regardless of race, color, creed, or national origin, every living person has a soul. Therefore, we are all His children.â€
Hill further commented on his Facebook page by saying, “Certainly, I call on the Church of God to pray for healing and reconciliation. However, it is also time that our actions demonstrate our most well intended words. May we, with our acts of brotherly love, work toward justice and liberty for people of every ethnicity. May we also exemplify honor and respect toward all as we vehemently resist the sin of racism in every way.â€
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
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Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5910
6/2/20 11:11 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
I see several churches participating in this type of virtue signaling.
My question is, was there ever any doubt that the modern Church of God condemns racism?
I have news , folks. All these affirmations are not going to stop the leftist/globalist media establishment from trying to destroy our religious rights and country as it was founded. The intentions is great, but it is futile.
Furthermore, I believe we are helping to perpetuate a yet unproven narrative, that Mr. Floyd's death was due to him being targeted by the police because of his race. In fact, nothing yet has been exposed about any of the parties involved that points to a racist motive. Perhaps such evidence will appear. But thus far, it has not.
At the very least, Floyd died in large part due to horribly inadequate police techniques in restraining suspects. Those involved deserve to be punished, based on the facts we currently have. So based on those facts, why didn't the Church of God issue a declaration condemning police brutality? I have searched high and low for a protest march to join condemning such police excesses, but I cannot find one. All of the protests are condemning racism. Until I have proof racism was the cause of Floyd's death, I will not be participating in any protests or tripping over myself to find a computer to announce to the world how virtuous I am.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/3/20 11:03 am
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Dave Dorsey |
RS... you might want to sit down for this one.
There are several parts of your post I disagree with. I do think the church needs to serve as an ongoing witness against racism, and I'm grateful for this statement.
But on this:
So based on those facts, why didn't the Church of God issue a declaration condemning police brutality?
You are spot-on, 100% correct. I have no objection to a statement condemning racism. I support it. But what you address here is the area where the church is desperately needed as a witness, because we live in a society that is largely worshipful of law and order at any cost. Very few people will object to a statement condemning racism, but see how many will object to a statement condemning excessive police force. That is how you know that is the statement that needs to be made.
I agree that there is no direct evidence that Chauvin killed Floyd because of Floyd's race. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. We don't have any way to know right now. But what we know for a fact is that he engaged in grossly excessive force that led to an unjust death, as the Minneapolis police department has done over 400 times, with greater than 50% of those neck restraints resulting in loss of consciousness.
Does that excessive force ultimately disproportionately affect people of color? It absolutely does, and that is the root of the argument that the injustice is systemic.
But on the issue of condemnation of excessive force, and this statement's lack of it... we are in complete agreement. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
6/3/20 12:57 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | RS... you might want to sit down for this one.
There are several parts of your post I disagree with. I do think the church needs to serve as an ongoing witness against racism, and I'm grateful for this statement.
But on this:
So based on those facts, why didn't the Church of God issue a declaration condemning police brutality?
You are spot-on, 100% correct. I have no objection to a statement condemning racism. I support it. But what you address here is the area where the church is desperately needed as a witness, because we live in a society that is largely worshipful of law and order at any cost. Very few people will object to a statement condemning racism, but see how many will object to a statement condemning excessive police force. That is how you know that is the statement that needs to be made.
I agree that there is no direct evidence that Chauvin killed Floyd because of Floyd's race. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. We don't have any way to know right now. But what we know for a fact is that he engaged in grossly excessive force that led to an unjust death, as the Minneapolis police department has done over 400 times, with greater than 50% of those neck restraints resulting in loss of consciousness.
Does that excessive force ultimately disproportionately affect people of color? It absolutely does, and that is the root of the argument that the injustice is systemic.
But on the issue of condemnation of excessive force, and this statement's lack of it... we are in complete agreement. |
Is it possible (and this is a question) that such tactics disproportionately effect black people because they are committing a disproportionate amount of crimes necessitating physical restraint? And let me be clear, most of these crimes are black on black, happening within their own communities. Does that constitute systematic racism? Are non-black offenders in similar situations receiving less restraint than blacks? Is there an unwritten rule and methodology that is applied according to race? Again, sincere questions.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/3/20 1:24 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
Resident Skeptic - Perhaps you would have been enlightened more about this topic if you had tuned in to the conversation I posted about on Monday night in which 5 black COG lead pastors shared about their experiences in life as a black man and pastor.
One of them shared about pulling up to his house in the CHURCH VAN, knowing there was a cop watching him while he fumbled for his keys to get in. (He joked that at least the cop could have put the lights on sooner to help him find the right key.) As soon as he opened the door, the blue lights came on. He was asked, "Is this your house?"
"Yes, sir."
Got his ID that proved he lived there. And the cop's comment afterwards - "Well, at least now I know where to come if there is trouble in this neighborhood." He said this hurt him more than being questioned. And it was obvious he was being questioned because he was a black man in a nice neighborhood.
This is a COG pastor, and this is the kind of attitude black men get from cops ALL THE TIME.
Another experience he shared of leaving the movies as a teenager with his dad and a cousin. His dad was a little behind them, and the kids were walking out of the theater. They were immediately stopped by policemen because they "fit the description" of a suspect. The cops had their hands in the boys' pockets before the dad could get to them. The kids had no idea what was happening or why. Can you imagine walking up on a policeman with his hands in your son's pockets?
I am sure most cops are wonderful people, but there are also some out there that use their position of authority to mistreat people, and in particular black men and sometimes women. And people of other cultures have NO IDEA because we have never personally dealt with it.
Later conversation touched on the fact that they are sometimes not given respect as church leaders or "dismissed." A Hispanic listener commented, "This how both blacks and whites treat Hispanics."
This should break our hearts and drive us to repentance. And you want to discuss if this is really racism?
Perhaps the reason for this announcement from our Presiding Bishop and the IEC is that OUR PASTORS of other cultures need to know we are standing with them in the pain they are experiencing and to find ways to work together to support other cultures and affirm their value to our denomination. Perhaps then, we can have honest dialogue and tear down the remaining walls of racism in our denomination. We've got to clean our own house before we can hope to change the world.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5910
6/3/20 3:26 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | Resident Skeptic - Perhaps you would have been enlightened more about this topic if you had tuned in to the conversation I posted about on Monday night in which 5 black COG lead pastors shared about their experiences in life as a black man and pastor.
One of them shared about pulling up to his house in the CHURCH VAN, knowing there was a cop watching him while he fumbled for his keys to get in. (He joked that at least the cop could have put the lights on sooner to help him find the right key.) As soon as he opened the door, the blue lights came on. He was asked, "Is this your house?"
"Yes, sir."
Got his ID that proved he lived there. And the cop's comment afterwards - "Well, at least now I know where to come if there is trouble in this neighborhood." He said this hurt him more than being questioned. And it was obvious he was being questioned because he was a black man in a nice neighborhood.
This is a COG pastor, and this is the kind of attitude black men get from cops ALL THE TIME.
Another experience he shared of leaving the movies as a teenager with his dad and a cousin. His dad was a little behind them, and the kids were walking out of the theater. They were immediately stopped by policemen because they "fit the description" of a suspect. The cops had their hands in the boys' pockets before the dad could get to them. The kids had no idea what was happening or why. Can you imagine walking up on a policeman with his hands in your son's pockets?
I am sure most cops are wonderful people, but there are also some out there that use their position of authority to mistreat people, and in particular black men and sometimes women. And people of other cultures have NO IDEA because we have never personally dealt with it.
Later conversation touched on the fact that they are sometimes not given respect as church leaders or "dismissed." A Hispanic listener commented, "This how both blacks and whites treat Hispanics."
This should break our hearts and drive us to repentance. And you want to discuss if this is really racism?
Perhaps the reason for this announcement from our Presiding Bishop and the IEC is that OUR PASTORS of other cultures need to know we are standing with them in the pain they are experiencing and to find ways to work together to support other cultures and affirm their value to our denomination. Perhaps then, we can have honest dialogue and tear down the remaining walls of racism in our denomination. We've got to clean our own house before we can hope to change the world. |
If the "this" you are referring to is Mr. Floyd, then yes I want to discuss whether it is racism. Absolutely I do. And we can line people up all night who share personal experiences of racism. But Carolyn, why are white people never asked to share their experiences?
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/3/20 5:10 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | Resident Skeptic - Perhaps you would have been enlightened more about this topic if you had tuned in to the conversation I posted about on Monday night in which 5 black COG lead pastors shared about their experiences in life as a black man and pastor.
One of them shared about pulling up to his house in the CHURCH VAN, knowing there was a cop watching him while he fumbled for his keys to get in. (He joked that at least the cop could have put the lights on sooner to help him find the right key.) As soon as he opened the door, the blue lights came on. He was asked, "Is this your house?"
"Yes, sir."
Got his ID that proved he lived there. And the cop's comment afterwards - "Well, at least now I know where to come if there is trouble in this neighborhood." He said this hurt him more than being questioned. And it was obvious he was being questioned because he was a black man in a nice neighborhood.
This is a COG pastor, and this is the kind of attitude black men get from cops ALL THE TIME.
Another experience he shared of leaving the movies as a teenager with his dad and a cousin. His dad was a little behind them, and the kids were walking out of the theater. They were immediately stopped by policemen because they "fit the description" of a suspect. The cops had their hands in the boys' pockets before the dad could get to them. The kids had no idea what was happening or why. Can you imagine walking up on a policeman with his hands in your son's pockets?
I am sure most cops are wonderful people, but there are also some out there that use their position of authority to mistreat people, and in particular black men and sometimes women. And people of other cultures have NO IDEA because we have never personally dealt with it.
Later conversation touched on the fact that they are sometimes not given respect as church leaders or "dismissed." A Hispanic listener commented, "This how both blacks and whites treat Hispanics."
This should break our hearts and drive us to repentance. And you want to discuss if this is really racism?
Perhaps the reason for this announcement from our Presiding Bishop and the IEC is that OUR PASTORS of other cultures need to know we are standing with them in the pain they are experiencing and to find ways to work together to support other cultures and affirm their value to our denomination. Perhaps then, we can have honest dialogue and tear down the remaining walls of racism in our denomination. We've got to clean our own house before we can hope to change the world. |
If the "this" you are referring to is Mr. Floyd, then yes I want to discuss whether it is racism. Absolutely I do. And we can line people up all night who share personal experiences of racism. But Carolyn, why are white people never asked to share their experiences? |
Because we don't have the same experiences that a black person does.
If a blue light comes on in my rear view mirror, my heart might race a little, but I have never, ever wondered if I would live to tell about it.
I have learned from a couple of my black (very intelligent, very successful) friends that a traffic stop for a black person is very different. They are schooled from the time they are young to handle themselves around cops with extreme caution and cooperation. Announce to the cop what they are doing and why, politely and moderately. "I am reaching my right hand into my glove box to remove my registration. I also want to let you know I hold a concealed carry permit and a gun is in my glove box."
Black people are frequently stopped because they are driving an expensive car or driving through a nice neighborhood. Or just because they're black and "fit the description." Has that ever happened to you? Have you had to warn your children to be careful how you respond or you might die?
I read an article about a young black man who is a plumber but he doesn't work after dark. He could use the money like any of us, but it is simply too much trouble to have to explain himself and where he's going and yes, he owns his van, etc., etc. He doesn't want to subject himself to that anymore than he has to. Because it inevitably will happen because he "fits the description of the suspect."
And because this keeps happening to our black brothers and sisters. It continues to escalate on a national level. And if we won't even acknowledge it's happening, how can we ever hope to help solve the problem?
Personally, I had never heard of this until my friends shared about it. Has this been your experience?
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5910
6/3/20 8:27 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | Resident Skeptic - Perhaps you would have been enlightened more about this topic if you had tuned in to the conversation I posted about on Monday night in which 5 black COG lead pastors shared about their experiences in life as a black man and pastor.
One of them shared about pulling up to his house in the CHURCH VAN, knowing there was a cop watching him while he fumbled for his keys to get in. (He joked that at least the cop could have put the lights on sooner to help him find the right key.) As soon as he opened the door, the blue lights came on. He was asked, "Is this your house?"
"Yes, sir."
Got his ID that proved he lived there. And the cop's comment afterwards - "Well, at least now I know where to come if there is trouble in this neighborhood." He said this hurt him more than being questioned. And it was obvious he was being questioned because he was a black man in a nice neighborhood.
This is a COG pastor, and this is the kind of attitude black men get from cops ALL THE TIME.
Another experience he shared of leaving the movies as a teenager with his dad and a cousin. His dad was a little behind them, and the kids were walking out of the theater. They were immediately stopped by policemen because they "fit the description" of a suspect. The cops had their hands in the boys' pockets before the dad could get to them. The kids had no idea what was happening or why. Can you imagine walking up on a policeman with his hands in your son's pockets?
I am sure most cops are wonderful people, but there are also some out there that use their position of authority to mistreat people, and in particular black men and sometimes women. And people of other cultures have NO IDEA because we have never personally dealt with it.
Later conversation touched on the fact that they are sometimes not given respect as church leaders or "dismissed." A Hispanic listener commented, "This how both blacks and whites treat Hispanics."
This should break our hearts and drive us to repentance. And you want to discuss if this is really racism?
Perhaps the reason for this announcement from our Presiding Bishop and the IEC is that OUR PASTORS of other cultures need to know we are standing with them in the pain they are experiencing and to find ways to work together to support other cultures and affirm their value to our denomination. Perhaps then, we can have honest dialogue and tear down the remaining walls of racism in our denomination. We've got to clean our own house before we can hope to change the world. |
If the "this" you are referring to is Mr. Floyd, then yes I want to discuss whether it is racism. Absolutely I do. And we can line people up all night who share personal experiences of racism. But Carolyn, why are white people never asked to share their experiences? |
Because we don't have the same experiences that a black person does.
If a blue light comes on in my rear view mirror, my heart might race a little, but I have never, ever wondered if I would live to tell about it.
I have learned from a couple of my black (very intelligent, very successful) friends that a traffic stop for a black person is very different. They are schooled from the time they are young to handle themselves around cops with extreme caution and cooperation. Announce to the cop what they are doing and why, politely and moderately. "I am reaching my right hand into my glove box to remove my registration. I also want to let you know I hold a concealed carry permit and a gun is in my glove box."
Black people are frequently stopped because they are driving an expensive car or driving through a nice neighborhood. Or just because they're black and "fit the description." Has that ever happened to you? Have you had to warn your children to be careful how you respond or you might die?
I read an article about a young black man who is a plumber but he doesn't work after dark. He could use the money like any of us, but it is simply too much trouble to have to explain himself and where he's going and yes, he owns his van, etc., etc. He doesn't want to subject himself to that anymore than he has to. Because it inevitably will happen because he "fits the description of the suspect."
And because this keeps happening to our black brothers and sisters. It continues to escalate on a national level. And if we won't even acknowledge it's happening, how can we ever hope to help solve the problem?
Personally, I had never heard of this until my friends shared about it. Has this been your experience? |
Carolyn, I saw a cop interviewed who was GRILLED because 75% of the people he pulled over were black. When finally given a chance to respond, he explained that normally he cannot even see the race of the person driving the car until he walks up to the window. There was stunned and confused silence in the room. Was it really that simple? The next time you are out driving on a busy road, pull off on the curb for a minute, and observe the cars going by. You will see how difficult it is to tell the race or sex of the drivers.
I'm sorry. But respectfully, I am not buying this narrative as being common. Certainly, with over 1 million policemen in the USA it is bound to happen. It is statistically impossible for it not to. But it is nothing near the norm, nor is it systematic and institutionalized.
And no, whites do not have the same story as blacks. Blacks cannot relate to flash mobs of youth attacking them at random on the streets and in the malls of major cities. Though blacks make up only 13% of the population, black on white violent crime dwarfs white on black crime of the same nature. There are government stats to prove it. There have been several vicious black on white racially motivated murders in recent weeks, with not a peep from the media, or our pastors. Those attacks simply do not stir the same outrage as white on black attacks.
If there is going to be a conversation on race, then all races should get a chance to tell their story.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/3/20 9:47 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: |
If there is going to be a conversation on race, then all races should get a chance to tell their story. |
Yes, all races should get a chance to tell their stories, but this is the one that is bringing great division in our nation and the one that needs to be addressed now before we allow it to tear our nation and our churches apart.
As it has been said across Facebook, all lives matter, but we need to attend to the one that is hurting the most right now. It is an opportune moment for the Church to step forward and do something more than apply a band-aid.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5910
6/3/20 10:00 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: |
If there is going to be a conversation on race, then all races should get a chance to tell their story. |
Yes, all races should get a chance to tell their stories, but this is the one that is bringing great division in our nation and the one that needs to be addressed now before we allow it to tear our nation and our churches apart.
As it has been said across Facebook, all lives matter, but we need to attend to the one that is hurting the most right now. It is an opportune moment for the Church to step forward and do something more than apply a band-aid. |
And part of ministering is to dispel myths and distortions. But I respect your opinion. It is obvious you have a good heart.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/4/20 7:17 am
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Resident Skeptic |
Officer Tatum says it best....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVIhRvkT8kg
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/4/20 7:24 am
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| Another great video |
Resident Skeptic |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18IVjGz9Gvk
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/4/20 8:29 pm
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Dow Moses |
Some people think because they have a Christian faith that they can’t be racist. Some of the most racist people I’ve meet has been in the church. Most of the klan throughout history has been made up of church going men. I honor the COG for making a public stand and statement. I do it as a pastor over our local church. Racism is a sin we all have committed and we have to fight against. It is apart of the sin nature. We must put it under the blood of Jesus.
_________________
DOW MOSES |
Friendly Face
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6/5/20 8:35 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
| Dow Moses wrote: | | Some people think because they have a Christian faith that they can’t be racist. Some of the most racist people I’ve meet has been in the church. Most of the klan throughout history has been made up of church going men. I honor the COG for making a public stand and statement. I do it as a pastor over our local church. Racism is a sin we all have committed and we have to fight against. It is apart of the sin nature. We must put it under the blood of Jesus. |
Amen!
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5910
6/5/20 9:32 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| And amen again. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
6/5/20 10:31 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
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Resident Skeptic |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | | I'm amazed that this thread has gone the way it has. I really thought someone would say, "Way to go, Bishop Hill & IEC!" |
And I say "way to go" because it shows just how far the church is willing to go to express our love and concern for people. But in this case, we have drifted from "going the extra mile" to embracing a false narrative, and actually perpetuating it.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 6/6/20 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
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6/6/20 7:27 am
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The COG Apostle |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | | I'm amazed that this thread has gone the way it has. I really thought someone would say, "Way to go, Bishop Hill & IEC!" |
And I say "way to go" because it shows just how far the church is willing to express our love and concern for people. But in this case, we have drifted from "going the extra mile" to embracing a false narrative, and actually perpetuating it. |
Always. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 566
6/6/20 8:11 am
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Resident Skeptic |
| The COG Apostle wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | | I'm amazed that this thread has gone the way it has. I really thought someone would say, "Way to go, Bishop Hill & IEC!" |
And I say "way to go" because it shows just how far the church is willing to express our love and concern for people. But in this case, we have drifted from "going the extra mile" to embracing a false narrative, and actually perpetuating it. |
Always. |
Are black conservatives always taking the side of racists? Work on your discernment.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
6/6/20 9:26 am
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The COG Apostle |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | The COG Apostle wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Carolyn Smith wrote: | | I'm amazed that this thread has gone the way it has. I really thought someone would say, "Way to go, Bishop Hill & IEC!" |
And I say "way to go" because it shows just how far the church is willing to express our love and concern for people. But in this case, we have drifted from "going the extra mile" to embracing a false narrative, and actually perpetuating it. |
Always. |
Are black conservatives always taking the side of racists? Work on your discernment. |
Always |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 566
6/8/20 7:07 am
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