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Dr.Acts

What % is your church financial loss

Friendly Face Posts: 104 **4/9/20 1:00 pm**

for the first month of Covid-19 restrictions
March 13 - April 13 2020 ?

Not asking for specific $ amount, but an appro. % of decrease
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Imperium centratus delenda est
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Dr. J.D. Acts

roughridercog

While not as much may have been coming in...

Acts Mod Posts: 25306 **4/9/20 1:21 pm**

Have your expenses lessened? Utilities? Gas and maintenance of church vehicles? Etc.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation

Dr.Acts

Friendly Face Posts: 104 **4/9/20 1:45 pm**

Afraid to ask so many specifics with some folk being picky on what you ask them. Just trying to get a feel of the general decrease compared to months prior to the quarantine
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Imperium centratus delenda est
Just the facts
Dr. J.D. Acts

jimmyjon

Actually, the month of march

Hey, DOC Posts: 87 **4/9/20 2:11 pm**

Had us at 2 services that were semi normal attendance but a bit less people, then 3 weeks of 10 people. 5 weeks of offerings but we also had 3 payrolls. All that said, we had the largest single giving month that we have had in the last 5 years. Which includes some heavy Christmas end of the year giving. We are using 3 online giving platforms but still get many checks and checks from banking checking accounts issued by the banks to us. And last week was well ahead of our normal weekly giving. I cant say if it will continue but I believe it will. Our treasurer estimates we have about 80 percent tithes which is the reason for the giving.

Dr.Acts

Friendly Face Posts: 104 **4/9/20 2:28 pm**

Bro. Jimmy,
I don't have any problem believing your largest Christ-birthday offering came just in time for Easter Smile

That apart, should we understand that your church may be doing way better financially if you close the doors and have people just send in the money?
_________________
Imperium centratus delenda est
Just the facts
Dr. J.D. Acts

jimmyjon

You're such a kidder.

Hey, DOC Posts: 87 **4/9/20 3:24 pm**

The answer is of course not. But what happened was several people gave some larger than normal offerings in order to help us weather the storm. They cant do that every month of course but we appreciate their generous spirit. We are connecting daily online with devotionals, online worship and mid week and weekend services. Our online presence is way up and our viewership is as well. But nothing online replicates being together in His Presence. Stay safe. Sunday's comin. God is up to something I believe.

sheepdogandy

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7298 **4/10/20 11:03 am**

No decrease here.
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Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

Rick Metzgar Jr

Golf Cart Mafia Associate Posts: 2003 **4/10/20 9:06 pm**

The wrong question. You cannot base it on this present data. You'll need a full quarter to see the true hit. I am predicting 25% across the board for Q2. While giving for us is up as far as trajectory, the existing giving base that we have are soon to be furloughed or will be receiving unemployment.

What the overall church needs to take a look at is this: If member Joe Smith used to make 1000 per week, he used to tithe 100 weekly. Now, Joe Smith on unemployment (And there is 30 million receiving it) is making 4-800, you can run the math on your own and see that there will be a loss. Call it whatever you want to, a loss, a shifting or whatever. The bottom line is, you'll need at least a full quarter to complete, and probably an additional quarter to see the true net loss.

jimmyjon

I agree with Rick

Hey, DOC Posts: 87 **4/11/20 3:16 pm**

But we haven't seen it yet. On the other hand, and it has nothing to do with faith or lack of it but we were the first ones in line with our bank to apply for the Paycheck Protection Program loan to help us just in case. The loan gives 2.5 times your average monthly payroll costs and will be totally forgiven if you do not lay off or cut any hours of your employees fir the next weeks. So in effect a grant. If we dont need it for payroll we will use it for ministry especially our food bank and missions or where the need is the greatest. Maybe some rent payments, we shall see. Have a blessed Resurrection Day! Sunday's comin.

Dr.Acts

Re: I agree with Rick

Friendly Face Posts: 104 **4/15/20 8:11 am**

Dave Dorsey

Re: I agree with Rick

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/15/20 8:35 am**

jimmyjon

Hey, DOC Posts: 87 **4/15/20 8:48 am**

Maybe it's the wealth of the unrighteous stored up for the righteous.

Cool

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/15/20 8:51 am**

Maybe so.

jimmyjon

OR maybe what we applied for

Hey, DOC Posts: 87 **4/15/20 9:34 am**

Is a grant. Since the "loan" will be forgiven once we pay our employees for the next 8 weeks. Then, it becomes a grant. We have been given guidance from our denominational attorneys that there is no danger to our religious freedoms by receiving these funds. So your post is not valid. If a Gov't which is constrained by our constitution from doing otherwise, begins to overstep its constraints then we must obey God not man and call out those oversteps. We render to Caesar what is owed Caesar, we pay the taxes owed and obey the laws as long as they dont infringe upon our 1st amendment rights. And we are compelled to be prudent men and if the govt wants to bless us by granting us funds with no complications we will be happy to be blessed. Faith is not the issue. Our source is always God. And we believe God has prompted this govt. to cause funds to be released to God's church. Thank you Jesus. We plan on blessing our community with these funds as we dont need them per se.

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **4/15/20 9:37 am**

That's great! I completely agree with your views and decisions regarding the PPP loan.

I just wish you had the grace and understanding for others that you have for yourself. Smile

Dr.Acts

Friendly Face Posts: 104 **4/15/20 11:38 am**

What state are you in Jimmy J?

Does your state have an Anti-Discrimination Act, which generally prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of religion, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. Then, taking the loan makes you an equal employer for all listed.

For example, the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act (CADA) generally prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of religion, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. CADA expressly exempts â€œany religious organizationâ€ from these requirements. But the exemption is lost if the organization â€œis supported in whole or in part by money raised by taxation or public borrowing.â€ C.R.S. Â§ 24-34-402(7).
_________________
Imperium centratus delenda est
Just the facts
Dr. J.D. Acts

jimmyjon

We are in NC

Hey, DOC Posts: 87 **4/15/20 3:56 pm**

And do not have a cada law. However, that said I think a church would prevail in court considering the FEDERAL govt is giving the funds to ALL religious organizations. No local law can subvert your 1st amendment rights under the establishment clause. We had a a church dealing with a similar problem in Ohio and we brought in Liberty Counsel and sued them. We won the case and the state had to pay the church $750000.

Dr.Acts

Friendly Face Posts: 104 **4/20/20 9:02 am**

Bro. Jimmy
Don't ya'll have the bathroom bill issue to deal with in NC as well? Do you feel it it will come your way with any govt. moneys in 2020?

The quarterly reporting is great but is NO GO where churches report monthly, pay salaries, bills and ToT on monthly basis.

Furthermore, our fiscal year started on 9/1/19 not 1/1/20 so we are now at budget closing and preparing annual report for the GA. If we are to follow your otherwise great direction, a quarantine quarter evaluation starting 3/13/20 would end mid June which leaves no time for GA reporting and 9/1/2020 budget. The budget is voted this week in April not in June - hence my question for monthly low/high that will hit the public shortly IMHO.

We are running out of time here...
_________________
Imperium centratus delenda est
Just the facts
Dr. J.D. Acts

jimmyjon

Churches are exempt from a lot of things, including the bathroom bill

Hey, DOC Posts: 87 **4/21/20 10:59 am**

If it violates our religious beliefs. That applies in every state in the USA. The quarterly reporting is mandated by federal law if you issue w2s. Has nothing to do with your reporting to GA. You apply for the ppp (they are going to approve more money today or tomorrow according to my sources in dc) by determining your 2019 payroll costs including housing, payroll, health insurance, retirement and fica if you pay that for any employees. Then divide that by 12 months to get your average monthly costs and then multiply that by 2.5. The forms are at sba.gov. You can then use those funds to pay your payroll costs and rent, mortgage interest and utility costs up to 25% of the money given to you. The initial money is given as a loan but the entire amount will be forgiven if you do not lay off any employees or cut any hours for the 8 weeks following the loan disbursement date.

Dr.Acts

Friendly Face Posts: 104 **4/21/20 12:31 pm**

Is your advisory toward receiving the loan based on any legal expertise?
I have not yet heard a single legal expert on church issues saying that a church can get PPP loan and then deny obligations toward current state legislature.
Do you know of any?
_________________
Imperium centratus delenda est
Just the facts
Dr. J.D. Acts