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 Is it time for peaceful noncooperation? |
roughridercog |
If all the churches said, "Nuts to this. We are meeting. What are they gonna do? Lock us all up?"
Would businesses be far behind?
Would it get America moving again?
Just thinking out loud.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
4/7/20 11:02 am
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UncleJD |
| Unless we're past the curve, then risking the lives of others will probably be a pretty bad move for the Church. On the other hand, if we're past the curve and governments insist on keeping everything shut down, then I'd be all for churches and business both to assert themselves over the government. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
4/7/20 11:05 am
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roughridercog |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Unless we're past the curve, then risking the lives of others will probably be a pretty bad move for the Church. On the other hand, if we're past the curve and governments insist on keeping everything shut down, then I'd be all for churches and business both to assert themselves over the government. |
If we believe the curve. 
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
4/7/20 11:32 am
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Da Sheik |
| To get an unbiased answer, maybe we should ask those choir members in Washington state what they think. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
4/7/20 12:02 pm
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UncleJD |
| roughridercog wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | Unless we're past the curve, then risking the lives of others will probably be a pretty bad move for the Church. On the other hand, if we're past the curve and governments insist on keeping everything shut down, then I'd be all for churches and business both to assert themselves over the government. |
If we believe the curve. |
The curve is a mathematical certainty, don't we believe in math?
It's SO hard to stay in the middle on this, everyone wants you to be either "ITS THE END OF THE WORLD" or "ITS ALL A HOAX" |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
4/7/20 12:07 pm
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| I Live in my Community |
FG Minister |
I live and pastor a congregation of 300 in my local community. We feed 300-500 each month in our food pantry and have continued during the shut-down. Our ladies made 750 masks that have been distributed to numerous nursing homes, doctor's offices, and the local fire department. The local CBS affiliate ran a story on the mask project and all these agencies contacted us for masks.
Now -- If we violate the "safer at home" order and start holding church services, what am I communicating to the community? We're saying...
We're above the law.
We know better than the doctors.
We don't care if we spread the disease.
No thanks. We will abide by the "safer at home" order until it is lifted. Because when it's all over, I want our community to know that we weathered it WITH them - we were not above them. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 874
4/7/20 12:26 pm
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Cojak |
| Da Sheik wrote: | | To get an unbiased answer, maybe we should ask those choir members in Washington state what they think. |
Or the folks that died in the Georgia COG, or my cousin who was a dedicated Christian leaving a wife and daughter!  
I am with you and a little caution.
No body has stopped the Word from going out. They even applaud it. Every minister and Hospital chaplain I know, go into ALL contagious areas with protection. I have never known one who defied safety and walked into a contagious area to offer prayers for the sick.
I have never heard of a pastor asking those with the Flu to come on to church God will protect you and us. Why wait for an epidemic or pandemic to show your colors?????? Sometimes common sense must be used.
Why not invite everyone with colds or strep throat To come Sunday also, don't just single out one over priced virus!!!!~!
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24276
4/7/20 9:16 pm
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| I would probably not attend a church like that.... |
Aaron Scott |
When someone claims that "they" are trying to take away our rights, blah, blah, blah...I recognize a conspiracy theorist who probably isn't all that well balanced in other areas.
This is a foolhardy display that wants to masquerade as "having faith." No, what they have is foolishness.
If the government had NO GOOD REASON to keep churches from meeting, or was treating church gatherings differently than businesses, etc., yeah, let's go back to church. In this case, though, it is CLEARLY about safety. If they are a little extra-cautious, I'm good with that.
Any pastor who says "We'er gonna have church anyway, bless God," and someone gets sick and dies...has blood on their hands. But if someone from that church catches the virus then gets my child sick and suffer, then, if I can get to the that pastor, I will do my best to give HIM a reason to go to the hospital too. (At my age, I may have to rely on a baseball bat, but still....)
To ME, this just reveals who the foolish pastors are. Hopefully, if they are doing this for the wrong reason, it will mean the end of their influence. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
4/8/20 10:14 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| You're making a whole lot of sense, Aaron! Very good points. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
4/8/20 10:35 am
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| Where do we stand on "faith" in our PENTECOSTAL churches? |
jimmyjon |
What is faith? How do you balance it against what you SEE? How do you balance it against what you SAY?
Maybe the church is a little like the church in this story.
There is this little town in the Midwest, and the whole area has been hit hard by drought for years. In this town, was a little Church that served all the farmers, and every Sunday, all the farmers and their families would come to Church and pray for rain. The Pastor would tell the congregation every week that they needed to pray more. One week, one man finally stood up and said, preacher, every week we come here and pray, and you tell us we need to pray more, but nothing changes. The preacher replies, that is because you do not have enough Faith! The man angrily responds, WHAT? what do you mean, we do not have Faith, we are here week after week, praying!
The preacher calmly says, yes, but where are your umbrellas?
Do we walk by faith or by sight? Whose report do you believe? Not saying we should be foolish nor tempt God but what role does faith play in the life of Christians today? I think Jesus might be weeping over the state of the church today. I thought we were supposed to be the seed of Abraham? CHildren of faith.
Anybody bring an umbrella? |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 87
4/8/20 10:52 am
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| Re: Where do we stand on "faith" in our PENTECOSTAL churches? |
UncleJD |
| jimmyjon wrote: |
Anybody bring an umbrella? |
I brought a snake, wanna take it up and test God? |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
4/8/20 11:46 am
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| I Wonder... |
FG Minister |
While Daniel was in the lion's den, knowing death was just a few feet away, did he tempt the lions to destroy him by smacking them on the face? He had faith, so why not antagonize them? He probably practiced social distancing!! I doubt he antagonized any lions. BUT HE HAD FAITH!! Sure he did, but he also had common sense. Don't smack a hungry lion on the face - he might kill you.
So, have faith, but don't get close to a deadly virus -- it could kill you. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 874
4/8/20 12:16 pm
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| Re: I Wonder... |
UncleJD |
| FG Minister wrote: | While Daniel was in the lion's den, knowing death was just a few feet away, did he tempt the lions to destroy him by smacking them on the face? He had faith, so why not antagonize them? He probably practiced social distancing!! I doubt he antagonized any lions. BUT HE HAD FAITH!! Sure he did, but he also had common sense. Don't smack a hungry lion on the face - he might kill you.
So, have faith, but don't get close to a deadly virus -- it could kill you. |
You said it nicer than I did, you have great patience  |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
4/8/20 12:34 pm
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| Jimmyjon...I hear you, bro |
Aaron Scott |
| jimmyjon wrote: | What is faith? How do you balance it against what you SEE? How do you balance it against what you SAY?
Maybe the church is a little like the church in this story.
There is this little town in the Midwest, and the whole area has been hit hard by drought for years. In this town, was a little Church that served all the farmers, and every Sunday, all the farmers and their families would come to Church and pray for rain. The Pastor would tell the congregation every week that they needed to pray more. One week, one man finally stood up and said, preacher, every week we come here and pray, and you tell us we need to pray more, but nothing changes. The preacher replies, that is because you do not have enough Faith! The man angrily responds, WHAT? what do you mean, we do not have Faith, we are here week after week, praying!
The preacher calmly says, yes, but where are your umbrellas?
Do we walk by faith or by sight? Whose report do you believe? Not saying we should be foolish nor tempt God but what role does faith play in the life of Christians today? I think Jesus might be weeping over the state of the church today. I thought we were supposed to be the seed of Abraham? CHildren of faith.
Anybody bring an umbrella? |
I hear you, bro. I think the difference is determined by a few different things:
1) If you know that God instructed you to go an minister to a village struck with Ebola (for instance), then go.
2) Consider that everyone who attends may not have the faith YOU have...and might catch the virus and die, etc.
3) Consider whether you are "tempting God" by taking an UNNECESSARY RISK. We all have to take some degree of risk to even drive to the store. All of us would likely run into a burning building to save a family member, regardless of the risk. But to do it "just because," that's tempting God...and you might come out with some burns...if you come out at all.
It is NOT an absence of faith that keeps us from doing stupid stuff. It's respect for ourselves, others, and God (by not tempting Him). I have done stuff for the sake of adventure (e.g., running certain rapids) that I wouldn't do now...and would probably sweat bullets if my son did it. I didn't do TO risk my life, so God had mercy. I was doing it to, I guess you could say, HAVE a life. If that makes sense. In any case, God was gracious and kind.... |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
4/8/20 1:50 pm
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| The reason I ask this... |
roughridercog |
Is that I'm starting to hear this rumbling in churches in my community. How long until we tell the authorities to take a long walk off a short pier?
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
4/9/20 5:32 am
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