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 Are you taking the Coronavirus serious at your church? |
Cojak |
I know a couple churches locally that are discouraging shaking hands, but that is the only thing I have noticed.
Do you consider it more serious than the FLU? I did not at first, but I am leaning to very serious.... YOU? 
Is it Media Hype? That worries me. 
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24275
3/5/20 10:46 am
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| Coronavirus and church |
4thgeneration |
According to information I've gotten from places like the CDC, the reaction to the coronavirus is a media caused frenzy. We have something like this most every year, and someone starts crying the sky is falling. This being an election year, we are falling subject to the politicizing of actions and reactions in our country.
Research shows that the flu has a death rate of 1 per 100, and coronavirus a death rate of 2 per 100. Flu infections worldwide range in the 40-50 million cases with deaths in the 40-60 thousand annually. But we don't panic over flu season. We take caution without spreading mass fear.
Thats our response. Hand sanitizer, recommending minimal touch for those nervous about the situation, and go on with church as usual.
So here's a story. This past Sunday I watched a guy go to the hand sanitizer and wash his hands. Then he came to me and shook my hand. I smiled and said, after washing your hands you just shook mine, and I've shaken hands with most people here today. lol |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1598
3/5/20 12:36 pm
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Travis Johnson |
We just installed 10 hand sanitizer stations in the lobby, kids and students. We won't mention anything in service.
That being said, I refuse to touch my face with my hands after service until I get a chance to wash my hands. A lot of people have been doing that forever. The COG way of saying that is, "I've got to go wash the fellowship off my hands."
I'm staying with that. |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7862
3/5/20 3:08 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| Travis Johnson wrote: | | The COG way of saying that is, "I've got to go wash the fellowship off my hands." |
Love this. And honestly, COVID or cold, this is just good advice when you're in physical contact with a bunch of people. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/5/20 4:28 pm
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Cojak |
One thing about this virus is it can be spread by pets and other animals. I am not sure about the flu.
I'm not sure myself it it is a 'Sky is falling down' thing or not but I am washing my hands more. LOL
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Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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3/5/20 4:44 pm
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| We're doing what Travis said |
brotherjames |
| But we have mentioned the virus in our services with the understanding that the 91st psalm is a good thing to pray over your families and yourself and to not get caught up in fear or a media driven frenzy. Be prepared, wash your hands, cover your cough and if you're truly sick get help. But, Perfect love casts out all fear and if you are walking in fear there is no room for faith to operate. Ps 107:6. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
3/5/20 5:46 pm
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jeremiah2911_4me |
JImmy Fallon said the other night - - it's getting so bad even the guys are washing their hands after they use the restroom!!! 
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Pastor Mike
IPHC Pastor
You ARE a wonderful human being!!! |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 938
3/6/20 10:56 am
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shaunbwilson |
I have been following COVID-19 pretty carefully because the global nature of it has an effect on the strategy of the missions organization I serve. I do not want to become known as the American missions agency that brought COVID-19 to a country where it was not previously found. Here are some points to consider:
- Based on this information, the risk at different churches will vary dramatically based on the demographics of the church.
- Symptoms do not appear for 2-14 days, but you can still be infecting others before symptoms appear.
- Not everyone who catches COVID-19 shows symptoms of the virus. However, asymptomatic carriers can still infect others.
- Coughs and sneezes can travel several feet and stay suspended in the air for up to 10 minutes.
For us, this means that our missions team members could become infected with COVID-19 in the States and not show any symptoms until the last day of the short-term mission. If our infected team member develops symptoms that require the highest level of medical attention necessary for COVID-19 while we are in another country, that could be a serious hurdle (depending on the country in which we are ministering and whether we are ministering in a city or a village) and could seriously hinder travel back to the States on the planned schedule.
Thankfully, this isn't a problem for the local church. However, one only needs to look at how the disease has spread in South Korea to see the kind of negative press a church in the United States could get for a similar type of outbreak. While I agree that the statistics that 4thgeneration has shared are correct, it is clear from the South Korea incident that COVID-19 is highly contagious because it can be spread by those who do not even know that they have it yet or who do not know that they have it because they are low-responders or totally asymptomatic responders. Further, if yours is a church with a large population of those who are 50-years-old and higher and COVID-19 sweeps through your church, your risk of losing more than 2% of your congregation is much higher (see the link in my first bullet point above). I believe the church has a responsibility to protect the reputation of the body of Christ, and a large outbreak that is linked to a church could create a major backlash. Further, consider how you might feel if the elder sheep in the flock which God has entrusted to you become ill and 14.8%, 8%, or even 3.6% of them die because you did not ask the younger, lower-risk sheep to stay home for a few weeks if they show symptoms that indicate they may be carriers.
I like how brotherjames's church has handled it. I would add a little more.
- Cover your coughs and sneezes and wash your hands with soap for at least 20 seconds. (Next time you're in the bathroom, notice how many people wash with soap for at least 20 seconds. I am usually the only one to do so in the restrooms I am using. Does this make a difference? YES! See also: How clean are your hands?)
- If there is a chance that you are sick with COVID-19 (and remember that you might be a low-symptom responder who could infect high-symptom/high-risk congregants), please stay home from church. Call us or send us an email or text, and we will pray for you. We believe that God heals, but we would rather He heal you before you return to worship. This is a sign of brotherly love toward your Christian community. Going to church knowing there is a possibility that you are a carrier of COVID-19 is basically the opposite of John 15:13.
- If there is a chance you are very sick, seek medical attention. We will pray with you in faith that God will heal you. At the same time, seek the attention of those to whom God has given wisdom and understanding in the medical care of His creations.
If your church doesn't yet provide livestreaming, podcasting, or a place to watch missed sermons, now might be a good time to either begin or consider doing so on a temporary basis until COVID-19 has passed.
I don't see any reason for unnecessary alarm, but I also don't see any reason to put our brothers and sisters at risk. Keep going to church as usual, but if you're sick, please stay home for a couple of weeks.
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Posts: 3209
3/6/20 1:27 pm
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| Good points Shaun |
brotherjames |
I like your thinking. That is exactly what we are communicating. We do livestream on 3 platforms (vimeo, youtube and facebook) as well as using the YouTube stream on our app. We would rather have everyone in church but as long as we have enough people to do ministry we will do so. If the day comes for a temporary time where we cannot hold a public meeting due to not enough workers or local quarantine, we plan to do a live blog from the pastor.
Back in the 70's Demos Shakarian held a Full Gospel Busness Meeting in Washington DC. 2 speakers (one was Harold Bredesan cant remember the other) recounted a dream they both had that was exactly the same for each of them. (I was a young man then.) Part of the dream was that they saw sick and dying people lying on mats in hospitals and on the ground outside the hospitals in cities all over the world and America. Then they saw people walking among the sick, laying hands on the people and the people were being healed as they arose from their mats and walked off. May it be so now. It is time for the church to walk in the Power of His Spirit and manifest His healing virtue and Jesus' love wherever we go. What an opportunity to share the Word of Grace to a hurting, confused anxious world and see Jesus confirm the Word with signs following.
Blessings |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
3/6/20 5:09 pm
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| Re: Coronavirus and church |
shaunbwilson |
| 4thgeneration wrote: | | Research shows that the flu has a death rate of 1 per 100, and coronavirus a death rate of 2 per 100. Flu infections worldwide range in the 40-50 million cases with deaths in the 40-60 thousand annually. But we don't panic over flu season. We take caution without spreading mass fear. |
I thought it was a good idea to update this post, pointing out that the death rate for flu is 1 per 1,000 rather than 1 per 100. Additionally, "the death rate for COVID-19 appears to vary by location and an individual's age, among other factors. For instance, in Hubei Province, the epicenter of the outbreak, the death rate reached 2.9%; in other provinces of China, that rate was just 0.4%, according to the China CDC Weekly study" (source). So, even the "low end" death rate is 4 times higher than flu.
On February 24, the University of Minnesota published a paper saying the death rate is 2.3%. However, this was before Italy really spiked.
On March 6, the World Health Organization updated the death rate to 3.4%. I have seen estimates of 5% in the US population. The theories for why it might be higher in the US that I have seen range from the woefully low number of tests that have been distributed (which means the death rate is artificially inflated because only the illest are being tested and used to calculate the death rate) to the fact that obesity is a complicating health condition that is on par with smoking in those with this particular virus (which means America's obesity epidemic will lead to more deaths here than in some other places).
What is clear is the death rate of the flu is 0.1% and the death rate for COVID-19 is somewhere between 0.4% and 5.0% with 3.5% being a number that many epidemiologists are using.
COVID-19 is also much more contagious than the flu. Contagiousness is measured by scientists in "R0." ("R is defined as the average number of secondary cases generated per typical infectious case" [source].) Flu has a "contagiousness measurement" median R0 of 1.28 (source). COVID-19 is estimated to have an R0 between 1.4 – 6.49 and a mean estimate of 3.28 (source).
How big is your congregation? The church that I attend has an average Sunday morning attendance of about 400. This means if (when) COVID-19 is introduced to our church community, we can expect approximately 14 people to die.
I don't like those numbers.
This is why it's important for churches to take this seriously and do what they can to limit exposure—especially for the elderly population of the church.
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3/11/20 8:59 am
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shaunbwilson |
Released this afternoon:
| Quote: | | Coronavirus is 10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu, Trump's task force immunologist says |
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3/11/20 1:58 pm
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| current cases less than 50K and holding for days (L) |
UncleJD |
This is from the CDC/WHO
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html
Scroll down to the current cases/deaths/recovered graph. Its self-explanatory. The cases may be going up by a few hundred or so a day but the recoveries are going up faster. In fact the only reason from everything I've read for the current cases to be increasing is that they are doing more tests, it does NOT mean its spreading any more rapidly, that is faulty logic since discovering something doesn't mean its new. Math is math and you can do it (unless this chart is wrong, but its from the "authorities") This panic is 100% HYPE. Sure it can kill you if you're very sick when you get it, but what can't? I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but it sure is fishy. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
3/11/20 2:56 pm
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UncleJD |
| shaunbwilson wrote: | Released this afternoon:
| Quote: | | Coronavirus is 10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu, Trump's task force immunologist says |
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Simple math says that's not true. They extrapolate numbers of infected on seasonal flu based on infection rates and the #s of people in a population, then compare that with deaths. They have NOT estimated the actual number of cases of COVID-19, they only compare the deaths with the reported # of cases which by every professionals' opinion is a SMALL fraction of the actual cases since most people wouldn't even know they are sick much less sick enough to go to a hospital. THIS kind of "information" is what is spreading the panic. STOP IT |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
3/11/20 3:01 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
UncleJD, are you saying Dr. Fauci and the president's team are spreading misinformation?
Do you think they might have taken what you are saying into account? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/11/20 3:26 pm
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UncleJD |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | UncleJD, are you saying Dr. Fauci and the president's team are spreading misinformation?
Do you think they might have taken what you are saying into account? |
Yes I'm saying that. they have not taken it into account because the only way you get to a 4% death rate is to base it on the 125K or so reported cases. As healthcare professionals around the world, including the Johns Hopkins chart (sorry, thought it was WHO, but I can't find their chart showing recoveries yet), indicates that the number of infected far exceeds those numbers reported. Yes, I am saying its misinformation. to get the real death rate, you have to know the real infection rate. Its pretty safe to say we know who are dying because they are sick enough to go to the hospital. We DON"T know how many are actually infected, many don't have enough symptoms to even believe they are sick at all (according to healthcare professionals I've heard on TV, not my own theory). Case in point, FOX has had an older man on a cruise-ship on for 3 days in a row, he says he don't feel sick at all, but yet he's testing positive (because they tested everyone on the ship). So realistically, there are likely MILLIONS infected around the world, which would be more in line with a common flu spreading for 3 months. Now do the ratio of those known deaths to a realistic infected estimate and you're probably very close to common flu. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
3/11/20 3:29 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
I hope you're right. The near-universal consensus among experts seems to be to the contrary, and I have to think they are taking into account the large number of unknown cases when they are considering the epidemiology and risk of the disease.
In particular, I do not think Dr. Fauci or Pence's team would be spreading misinformation. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/11/20 4:07 pm
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UncleJD |
[quote="Dave Dorsey"]I hope you're right. The near-universal consensus among experts seems to be to the contrary, /quote]
I disagree and I'm basing that on what experts are saying and evidence they've given. I just read between the lines and understand where their number is coming from. I gave you a chart which shows exactly what the 4% is coming from (roughly 125K reported cases and 4% deaths in ratio to that number). Also its easy to find quotes from most healthcare providers and common sense tells you they are only counting the reported cases. I also gave an example of a person who doesn't feel sick and would never have gone to the hospital if he weren't tested because he was on a boat. There is no evidence of this being 10 times more lethal, period and there CAN'T be until the number of real cases is known, which most likely is impossible.
Last edited by UncleJD on 3/11/20 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
3/11/20 4:30 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
Sure - you can start with information being published by Vice President Pence and his team.  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/11/20 4:31 pm
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UncleJD |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | Sure - you can start with information being published by Vice President Pence and his team. |
Its wrong information Dave, do simple math. He's basing that number on the ratio of KNOWN cases, not reality. I've had it with the moronic panic I'm seeing. What a sad state of humanity this is. And I'll say it now, as much as I support Trump, his team is useless if they can't do better than this. One simple chart debunks it all, you can't have it both ways, either its only 125K cases in 3 months (hardly anything), or its millions (more likely) but the death-rate is low (millions to around 4K)
Last edited by UncleJD on 3/11/20 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
3/11/20 4:32 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| The death rate is likely to decrease as testing improves. I think it could go as low as 1%, would you agree with that? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/11/20 4:33 pm
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