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 Re: Link...I still am not following |
Aaron Scott |
| Link wrote: | | Aaron Scott wrote: |
Of course, I know you don't see it this way, but the point remains, I think. Consider the rank EVIL that would permitted if a man could freely commit adultery, but his wife HAVE to stay with him--or at least not divorce and remarry). What a great deal! A do as I say, not as I do scenario.
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This is hypothetical, but let's suppose there were a denomination or just one pastor who would advise a wife in this situation that she could divorce if she chose to, but not remarry citing these verses:
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Mark 10
11 So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.†(NKJV)
Mark 5
31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except]sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. (NKJV)
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. (NKJV)
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Is that 'evil' for her church to believe she can't remarry? Why is it evil not to remarry after a divorce?
No, I do not believe it is evil to hold that a person cannot remarry if they divorce. I don't agree with it, necessarily--and certainly not in cases where the other spouse committed adultery--but I trust that it comes from a sincere interpretation of the scriptures, etc.
What I meant by "evil" was that if we assume the verse is speaking only to men, then what of the woman who thinks that that means that SHE can divorce for ANY reason, yet remarry without any thought of it be adulterous. I thought that was the direction you were taking. My point was that it would be evil, since it would use a technicality (that it is addressed to men) to free the woman from any penalty of such for her actions.
Many years ago, I worked for an institution overseas that opened a college, and I taught English there, though I just had a bachelors. They also gave me an American Culture class to teach. I learned some things about my own culture from reading the textbook. It said that unlike in some other cultures, Americans thought marriage existed to make two people happy, and if they weren't happy with it, they would get a divorce and marry someone else." That is so true of our culture.
If you disagree with those who teach against remarriage after divorce, whether male or female, that's is one thing, but why would you call it evil? Is it because you think of marriage as something designed to make people happy and that it is evil to deprive people of their pursuit of happiness?
I DO believe that one function of marriage is personal happiness. At least ideally. It does seem that Adam was happy with Eve, until.... Take the opposite view: Do we suppose that marriage should make us miserable? Of course not. First, because a marriage filled with hate, bitterness, and misery is NOT the sort of home that is conducive to good families.
At the very least, marriage is designed, it seems, to create an "incubator" for healthy relationships, moral training, etc. If that is missing, well, it's not going to bode well.
However, while marriage should make the participants happy, it is not necessarily the core purpose of marriage. Think of it as food: It's nice if food is pleasant and delicious. But it's real purpose is to provide nutrition and the basics, etc. And it certainly isn't nice if food is rotten or spoiled.
Likewise marriage has a sober function, not just one of delight and the such. In some societies, children are not taught to marry for love, but to marry for other reasons: alliances, to please mom and dad, to create wealth, etc. But the ideal is, yes, to marry for love.
Consider that David certainly did not marry Bathsheeba for purposes of an alliance. Isaac, it says, loved Rebecca.
Jacob's marriages probably best state the obvious: Leah is the wife of function, who bears children, etc., while Rachel is the wife of love. Ideally, both of these things are merged into one woman. However, it might be that polygamy is a riff on this sort of thing--a man has some wives that are perhaps "business partners" in a sense, while others are more about romance.
Remember how Hannah and her co-wife were thought of by Samuel's father: One had the children, but it seemed clear that his heart was with Hannah.
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Last edited by Aaron Scott on 9/13/20 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
9/12/20 3:45 pm
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| Divorce and Re-marriage "merry-go-round" |
Mat |
Reading this thread is like riding the "Divorce and Re-marriage "merry-go-round" - the readers have seen if before and will see it again. Like in the earthy ministry of Jesus, there are those who teach marriage until death no matter what and those who teach divorce for most any cause - and if you use the wrong cause, don't worry, God's grace will cover it.
The focus on elements like romance, ceremonies, rings, vows, bridle showers, wedding dresses, first dances, pictures/videos, and everything else we have made marriage has covered the Biblical elements of what God intended marriage to be. Some people are so in love with the trappings of marriage and the idea of romance surrounding it in our culture, they just have to get married over and over and over again. Then they blame it on their heart and justify as being blessed by God.
Here's what I see in the Bible, marriage is a public contract (covenant) between families and the man and woman. There must be agreement without deception (like the OT right to divorce if the woman is not a virgin as agreed upon). The contract must be fulfilled with the woman and the man cohabiting and sexually consummating the relationship. Sex outside the relationship (adultery/fornication) brakes the marriage relationship. Since adultery was a death sentence in the Old Testament, divorce was just a compromise.
Here's the thing, we know not all marriages are joined together by God, including same-sex, incestuous (Abraham and Sarah could not be married today), forced or co-worse or drunken (high) and maybe polygamous marriages, and I would include marriages not agreed to by family (parents). We also know from the Bible that wrongful divorce leads to wrongful marriage.
Its interesting that same-sex people know enough Bible to use serial divorced and remarried "Christians" as justification for their union. After all love is the main thing and God is love, right? Wrong, and how is the modern Church any different from the practice of the Roman Catholic Church when it comes to taking pagan rituals and trying to sanctify them for Christians?
Just one more rant, folks if you have been married and divorced, especially if you are a serial offender, do not think you have some special insight on marriage that God gave you to tell people married to one person for many years (til' dead do us part) how to "do" marriage.
Stop the merry-go-round I want to get off!
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
9/13/20 8:10 am
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| Re: Link...I still am not following |
Link |
\ | Link wrote: | | Aaron Scott wrote: |
Of course, I know you don't see it this way, but the point remains, I think. Consider the rank EVIL that would permitted if a man could freely commit adultery, but his wife HAVE to stay with him--or at least not divorce and remarry). What a great deal! A do as I say, not as I do scenario.
|
This is hypothetical, but let's suppose there were a denomination or just one pastor who would advise a wife in this situation that she could divorce if she chose to, but not remarry citing these verses:
| Quote: |
Mark 10
11 So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.†(NKJV)
Mark 5
31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except]sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. (NKJV)
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. (NKJV)
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Is that 'evil' for her church to believe she can't remarry? Why is it evil not to remarry after a divorce?
No, I do not believe it is evil to hold that a person cannot remarry if they divorce. I don't agree with it, necessarily--and certainly not in cases where the other spouse committed adultery--but I trust that it comes from a sincere interpretation of the scriptures, etc.
What I meant by "evil" was that if we assume the verse is speaking only to men, then what of the woman who thinks that that means that SHE can divorce for ANY reason, yet remarry without any thought of it be adulterous. I thought that was the direction you were taking. My point was that it would be evil, since it would use a technicality (that it is addressed to men) to free the woman from any penalty of such for her actions. |
No, that is not the direction I was going. Jesus' words on divorce and remarriage call it adultery outright, except the quote in Matthew with says that if a man divorces his wife, __except it be for fornication__, he commits adultery. And he that marries her that is divorced commits adultery. The law he was addressing allowed men to divorce women, but not the other way around. The Pharisees had at least two main opinions on the matter, Hillel's that a man could divorce his wife for any cause, and Shammai's, who allowed for it only for immorality. Hillel had died when Jesus was a child, and Shammai might have been dead a year or so at this time. It is unlikely that either allowed for a woman to divorce a man, since the law did not allow for it.
I read that the chief priests had authorized Philip's wife to divorce him, after which she married his brother. They may have been Saduccees, who differed with Pharisees on matters of the law, and who may have allowed this bit of religious corruption for political reasons. John the Baptist spoke out against the unlawful marriage. That is the only case of a woman divorcing a man that I know of in Judaism at that time, though the Romans may have allowed it at that time. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
9/13/20 8:34 am
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