| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | Plain & simple ...if they are gay & proud of their lifestyle & involved in a sexual lifestyle dating members of the same sex then they cannot be a member of our church & nor can they be involved in any ministry as a leader. |
What if a couple are shacking up, sleep together, have kids, but aren't married? Can they do these things? What if a married couple divorce or separate for no Biblical reason and one of them starts dating. Can they join or be on a ministry team?
Is not being a member or being on the ministry team the Biblical standard? Church membership seems to be based on being a Christian in the New Testament. If you get baptized, you are a member. And 'ministry teams'-- that would be quasi-biblical at best.
I Corinthians 5 talks about not keeping company with one who is called a brother who does any one of a long list of sins.
This is an issue I struggle with since I have a close relative who has a married girlfriend and issues with drugs. But he hasn't been going to church for a long time, so do we count him as a brother or one who is of this world?
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Yes they can attend worship & sing, pray & give in the offering. |
You might want to keep the give in the offering bit out if you say this on YouTube.
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I wouldn't feel comfortable with them receiving communion but I'm not going to halt the process during the service in order to make sure the gays are not taking crackers & juice. |
Paul calls the Corinthian Christians a lump of dough in I Corinthians 5. In I Corinthians 5, calls them one bread in the context of communion. I Corinthians 5 warns that a little bit of leaven works its way throughout a lump of dough.
That is part of the argument not to keep company or eat with the fornicator in their midst.
I consider love feasts/feasts of charity to be holy communion. That seems reasonable based on what I have read. If we read Jude and II Peter together the false brethren and/or false teachers were spots 'on your love feasts' and 'spots and blemishes while they feast with you.'
A spot on a sacrifice, such as a Passover sacrifice, made the sacrifice unacceptable to the Lord. Jesus is a Lamb without spot or blemish. I Corinthians 5, the passage about expelling the fornicator, says to keep the feast not with the leavened bread of malice and wickedness or the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
So what I am leading up to is this, if we have unrepentant sinners who call themselves brothers and fit the I Corinthians 5 description or false brethren and false teachers promoting wickedness partaking of communion with us, does this make our communion akin to a sacrifice of a lamb with spot and blemish, unnacceptable to the Lord?
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I usually say something along the line of, "if you are taking the communion today but have not fully surrendered to God then consider waiting until you have had a time to come to Christ fully in your life." |
Does the church have a responsibility before God to make sure it does not eat with certain people, rather than just thinking of this as the individual responsibility of those doing the eating.
He who eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks condemnation on himself. That's himself as an individual. But if the whole church is judged, it is chastised that it not be condemned with the world-- that's the judgment of the group.
And if tolerating certain individuals-- false brethren or teachers in Jude and II Peter 2-- makes our feasts like a lamb with spot or blemish, there is that issue as well.
There is also the issue of leaven working its way through the whole lump.
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If we had a person in good standing who went sideways for a few days & got all hot & bothered with someone else & then came back & repented I would work with them to help restore them in love w/out "outing" them publicly as long as it was more like a fling & it happened during a period of weakness.
However, if someone was determined to live that way & did not want to receive help or seek forgiveness then it would be a moot point to try & receive them back as a member in good standing.
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I would agree with that, except I think the scriptures are concerned with keeping company rather than writing their name on a membership list.
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The process for trying to figure out their sins is not for me to deal with, I'm just glad to see them repent & come back to the 99. |
The shepherd in the parable went out to search for the one sheep who had gone astray. As a collective responsibility of the church, Hebrews 12 says to look diligently lest any fall of the grace of God. In this context, it mentions the profane person or fornicator.
IMO, showing mercy and restoring people should be step number 1 before any of the church disciplne stuff when someone falls.
Btw, I'm planning on turning this into a thread.
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2/13/20 2:59 pm
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Can sin contaminate others and make communion like a blemished or spotted sacrifice?
