 |
Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Message |
Author |
 Bible Oil. If it was false, I'm glad it was exposed.... |
Aaron Scott |
When I first heard of this, along with the fact that the man seemed very humble and was not charging money, etc., I thought...maybe, just maybe....
But when you read of the whole mineral oil thing, it throws everything else into a dubious light. It's about like preaching on gold dust, then being found to have bought a case of gold glitter (which is all that EVER was, I think).
The truth is that people want so badly for there to be miracles that it becomes too easy to be persuaded of one. Yes, there are miracles, but apparently nowhere at all in the numbers manifested in the Bible--or at least not all in one place.
Yes, it is entirely likely that people received a blessing or even a healing due to their heightened faith or receptiveness to such things. After all, a friend of mine got saved because of "88 Reasons Jesus Will Return in 1988." God can work things to good, of course.
BUT THE ISSUE IS THAT MANY, MANY MORE PEOPLE HAVE HAD THEIR FAITH DAMAGED. WORSE--FAR WORSE--IS THAT A REPROACH HAS BEEN BROUGHT UPON THE CHURCH.
I remember some years ago watching a video of someone holding a fork or spoon to the wall and it falling to the ground. Then they "prayed" and, lo and behold, it stuck! Yes, it was nothing but a trick (easily seen, since the man placed the fork much higher on the wall this time--where the magnet was.
I was livid. I wrote a scathing comment about how the truth didn't need lies to support it, that it brought a reproach to God, etc. I don't know, maybe the man was sincere, but somehow deluded into thinking that such tricks were alright, if they caused people to believe. In any case, I haven't been able to find that video since then, so maybe it got taken down. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6036
2/28/20 11:43 am
|
|
|
|  |
 |
|
|
| |
Dave Dorsey |
Good thoughts, Aaron.
To me, it is a little like putting your kids to bed on Christmas Eve and telling them Santa will be here soon! Then going out and setting out a half-eaten plate of cookies, an empty glass of milk, and carefully arranging presents from Santa under the tree.
The reason you would do this is because Santa is not real. You need to fabricate evidence to support the story because there's no such thing as Santa.
Our Almighty God, the sovereign and omnipotent creator of all that is seen and unseen, does not need this sort of help. In fact, it is blasphemous to attempt to help him in this way. It is taking his name in vain in the worst possible way.
Is it possible someone's faith was genuinely stirred by this tall tale, such that they received genuine healing? Of course it is, and I rejoice if that happened. God is so merciful and good.
But that does not excuse the underlying sin of deceit. It does not pardon it.
I am encouraged that it does not seem they attempted to profit. I don't know if they took up offerings during these prayer meetings, but they weren't selling the oil. I'm glad about that. I hope this was started in good intentions that went severely awry. But, where they ended up has no possible justification or pardon, and as you said, is a reproach on the church and leads people to doubt true miracles of God. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/28/20 12:17 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dave Dorsey |
You can watch these two guys on Sid Roth's show at the very beginning of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58k-w9ML6XU
They claim that God spoke to them directly about the Bible and said it was a manifestation that he was causing. They share at length about what they claim God said directly to them about the oil Bible. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/28/20 12:20 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dave Dorsey |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | But, where they ended up has no possible justification or pardon |
I should clarify that I mean there is no possible human justification or explanation that could make this situation okay. But there is a pardon available for where they ended up, the glorious pardon freely given to all who confess their sins and receive forgiveness from our just and faithful God. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/28/20 12:28 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Link |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | Good thoughts, Aaron.
To me, it is a little like putting your kids to bed on Christmas Eve and telling them Santa will be here soon! Then going out and setting out a half-eaten plate of cookies, an empty glass of milk, and carefully arranging presents from Santa under the tree.
The reason you would do this is because Santa is not real. You need to fabricate evidence to support the story because there's no such thing as Santa. |
I'm not throwing stones at the oil guy, and this is hypothetical.
But which do you think might displease God more, hypothetically, refilling a vat of oil that you kept your Bible in every night and telling grown adults it is a miracle, or deceiving 'these little ones' who don't have the capacity to question yet, about Santa Claus?
Some people who believed the oil might question if God is real. The little kid whose parents lied about Santa Claus who also heard about Jesus might ask, "Is Jesus real?"
I hear my sister may have asked my mother that when they told her Santa was 'make-believe' when she was seven years old. My parents were clear with me and my little brother that Santa did not fly on a sleigh and go down chimneys. My dad dressed in a Santa suit, once, but we knew it was just for fun.
They did not tell us there was a spirit from pre-Christian pagan religions of the British isles that gave us money for our teeth, either.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
2/28/20 5:44 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
JLarry |
I have a friend who promoted the guys with the oil. He is well educated a very intelligent brother. If I recall he has seen first hand the container refill as oil was taken from it. He also said people were healed after anointed by the oil.
They claim over 100,000 vials of oil have come from the container and it is as full as it ever was.
When I first heard of it I phoned my brother who lives in the area these guys were going to be in. He went to a service and told me the best he could determine the guys were for real.
The brother who had the Bible attended a friends church for several years.
I saw a video of John Kilpatric preaching and he mentioned the two guys were in the congregation.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
2/28/20 6:35 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
JLarry |
I have a friend who promoted the guys with the oil. He is well educated a very intelligent brother. If I recall he has seen first hand the container refill as oil was taken from it. He also said people were healed after anointed by the oil.
They claim over 100,000 vials of oil have come from the container and it is as full as it ever was.
When I first heard of it I phoned my brother who lives in the area these guys were going to be in. He went to a service and told me the best he could determine the guys were for real.
The brother who had the Bible attended a friends church for several years.
I saw a video of John Kilpatric preaching and he mentioned the two guys were in the congregation.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
2/28/20 6:35 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Quiet Wyatt |
| I always felt it was quite similar to the Catholic claims of weeping icons or statues of Mary. As evangelical Pentecostals aim to exalt the written word of God and the anointing of the Spirit, it seemed highly symbolic to me, however strange it might be. I think it might be possible it was genuine in the beginning, but when the oil stopped flowing, man tried to make it happen by ‘priming the pump’ as it were. I find it impossible to believe any self-respecting, God-loving Pentecostal would have faked it from the beginning. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12804
2/29/20 12:38 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dave Dorsey |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | | I find it impossible to believe any self-respecting, God-loving Pentecostal would have faked it from the beginning. |
I agree with this. Though at the same time, I find it extremely difficult to believe any God-fearing Pentecostal would knowingly fake the continuation of a genuine miracle that had ceased. It seems that the same "greater good" deception could grab a person in either of these situations. Perhaps when they started, they truly believed they were doing something good or didn't realize the nature of what they were doing. That said, I'm also open to the miracle having been genuine at the outset.
The reference to phenomena related to Catholic symbols is very interesting. I heard another commentator make the same observation. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/29/20 1:33 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| |
Dave Dorsey |
| Link wrote: | | But which do you think might displease God more, hypothetically, refilling a vat of oil that you kept your Bible in every night and telling grown adults it is a miracle, or deceiving 'these little ones' who don't have the capacity to question yet, about Santa Claus? |
I obviously have no way to answer this except with my opinion. I would say the former, for a variety of reasons, but that's just my opinion.
My wife and I feel the same way about Santa Claus, though. We've always told our kids that Santa is make-believe. We feel very strongly about never deceiving or misleading our kids, except perhaps extremely briefly for the sake of a joke (e.g. pretending you're not in the room when you're really under a blanket). |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/29/20 1:53 pm
|
|
|
| |
|
| I was buying my anointing oil ... |
Mat |
I was buying my anointing oil at the Christian Bookstore, but they are all closing. I had not thought of Tractor Supply, but was thinking I would have to get the olive oil from the grocery store (extra virgin, like the Virgin Mary).
I do believe in "signs and wonders" associated with the preaching of the Gospel. It seems to me these miracles are more spontaneous than spectacle, more manifestation than manipulation, and more personal than public.
Much like the make at the Pool of Bethesda, the crowd was watching the water, Jesus was looking for the need.
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1987
3/1/20 8:36 am
|
|
|
| |
|
| Re: I was buying my anointing oil ... |
Link |
| Mat wrote: | | I was buying my anointing oil at the Christian Bookstore, but they are all closing. I had not thought of Tractor Supply, but was thinking I would have to get the olive oil from the grocery store (extra virgin, like the Virgin Mary). |
The pastor of the church I went to as a child had a little bottle of olive oil. I would imagine that is what they used in Biblical times. The extra virgin stuff drips out of the olives without them even being squeezed. Did they even have a method for extracting other oils?
When I went to Indonesia, I saw what looked like mineral oil being used. It seemed strange to me. It didn't even look the same. Maybe Indonesians did not want to use the thicker palm oil they cook with and went with mineral oil.
I don't remember seeing a clear oil like that used in the US in a church. Of course, this Bible oil is clear in the pictures I've seen.
Mineral oil is an altogether different thing from an edible oil in my mind. It's petroleum. I wouldn't say it is a sin to use it, and I might use it in a situation if that's what was there, but I have a preference for olive or at least a similar-looking vegetable oil. I heard a missionary suggesting tomato juice for communion since it is also the 'fruit of the vine' and local grapes were rare. Doing that would feel odd to me, too, though I haven't ever seen it implemented.
_________________
Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/1/20 9:19 am
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
