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Niece, born raised in pentecost, embracing LGBTQ belief.....
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Post Eddie Robbins
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
It’s not the church’s place to condemn those who are outside the church and that’s exactly what is happening and it keeps people away. When their only exposure to Christians is a hatred towards them, why should they listen to anything a Christian has to say? So, are we concerned about the soul of a person or just repulsed by a lifestyle and just want to yell at them that they’re going to hell in a tone that almost seems like we’re happy about it? I can tell you this, what we’re doing now isn’t working. It’s time that a Christian comes across more loving than Ellen. If I were gay, the last place I would want to go is a church where I’m going to be told that I’m going to hell because of something I have no control over. Who needs that?


"Having no control over it" has never mattered to God when it comes to any sin. Heterosexual whore-hounds have no control over it, either. Neither do drunks and thieves. Christ came to free us from both the condemnation and control of sin. God has promised grace to those who humble themselves. Gays should not be treated any different than anyone else. God commandeth men everywhere to repent and to acknowledge their inability in themselves to live a life pleasing to God.


You have no way of knowing unless you’re gay. I know a lot of gay people who have prayed and agonized to the brink of suicide for God to take the sexual desire for the same sex away. So, if you want to condemn them, go ahead. It is not just as simple as a single that they can walk away from. If we have people who are born with abnormalities and show them love and mercy, we should do the same for these folks. I will and I do.
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10/15/19 2:40 pm


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Post Re: Niece, born raised in pentecost, embracing LGBTQ belief..... Link
caseyleejones wrote:
I don't get it. She was born and raised in a pentecostal home/fam. Went on mission trips to India on her dime. She is not in that lifestyle but embracing it as okay.

I have watched the gay thing play out. I am seeing more and more young people see it as okay. This however took me aback.

Why? Is it because it's hip to embrace that as acceptable?

Again, I am stumped....


I went to a megachurch in the Foursquare denomination for a while in Hawaii. You wouldn't know it was Pentecostal if you attended and probably most attendees had no idea it was Foursquare. My wife was talking to a woman who went there who felt the same way. I suspect a lot of people are that way in megachurches where doctrine is light. If they don't get deep enough in the word, they accept the thinking of the world.

But this young lady you posted about grew up in church. Was this really taught on in detail?

The LGBT movement presents as a moral issue of sensitive types being persecuted, to invoke a sense of compassion. Sometimes it's framed in terms of bullying. We have to deconstruct some of the ideas and really break it down so people can understand.

If 'gays' had those feelings all or most of their life, that doesn't make it right. It's a desire to do something contrary to God's revealed will which they had from youth. Does that make it okay to do it? Some children are violent or steal from youth. The underlying LGBT argument is that lust justifies sin.

When I had a chance to pass through the area, I dropped by a night service at the A/G I attended in high school. I only recognized one person there after the meeting was over. They broke into different Bible studies and the pastor there had a meeting with some of the adults talking about the whole LGBT issue, and he taught direction on the various issues from the word of God.

On the one hand, it is pretty messed up to have to have a whole meeting where the topic is LGBT stuff in church. On the other hand, it is necessary to teach the word of God.

Another concern of mine, having experienced this attitude growing up, is the idea that talk about sex is somehow dirty or sinful. I grew up mixing Victorian sensibilities with Biblical morality. We don't need to be crude, but we do need to teach children about sex from a Biblical perspective from the time they are young. The little ones may not need so much detail on mechanics of things. But I notice that God had Moses teaching the Torah to all ages from babies to old people, including those commands about circumcision, menstruation, adultery, incest, beastiality, and homosexual behavior.

We've got to get the children thinking Biblically on the sexuality issue from a very young age. The evil left, thinking they are doing good, are trying to brainwash the little ones in preschool and elementary school.

Have you had a chance to have a question for her? If you get to a point where you say, "So you are saying that lust justifies sin?" that might help her think through it.

Some of these people can't see through the shallow arguments the LGBT apologetics folks make about Romans 1 and other passage.
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10/15/19 6:09 pm


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Post Re: Niece, born raised in pentecost, embracing LGBTQ belief..... buttrfli24
Link wrote:
The underlying LGBT argument is that lust justifies sin.

Have you had a chance to have a question for her? If you get to a point where you say, "So you are saying that lust justifies sin?" that might help her think through it.


Hi! I noticed that you twice mentioned this about lust justifying sin and I was curious... do you believe that homosexual behavior is only about lust? Do you think they are capable of loving relationships or that everything is driven by sexual desire? Not trying to make a statement or start anything, just curious about your understanding. Thanks.
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10/16/19 8:10 am


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Post Resident Skeptic
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
It’s not the church’s place to condemn those who are outside the church and that’s exactly what is happening and it keeps people away. When their only exposure to Christians is a hatred towards them, why should they listen to anything a Christian has to say? So, are we concerned about the soul of a person or just repulsed by a lifestyle and just want to yell at them that they’re going to hell in a tone that almost seems like we’re happy about it? I can tell you this, what we’re doing now isn’t working. It’s time that a Christian comes across more loving than Ellen. If I were gay, the last place I would want to go is a church where I’m going to be told that I’m going to hell because of something I have no control over. Who needs that?


"Having no control over it" has never mattered to God when it comes to any sin. Heterosexual whore-hounds have no control over it, either. Neither do drunks and thieves. Christ came to free us from both the condemnation and control of sin. God has promised grace to those who humble themselves. Gays should not be treated any different than anyone else. God commandeth men everywhere to repent and to acknowledge their inability in themselves to live a life pleasing to God.


You have no way of knowing unless you’re gay. I know a lot of gay people who have prayed and agonized to the brink of suicide for God to take the sexual desire for the same sex away. So, if you want to condemn them, go ahead. It is not just as simple as a single that they can walk away from. If we have people who are born with abnormalities and show them love and mercy, we should do the same for these folks. I will and I do.


My heterosexual Bible College roommate had sex with every girl he dated...in Bible College. Most of the time he did not date. But when he did, he was doinking. Nice guy. He wept and cried and agonized, but repeatedly failed. I have known Christians who struggled on and off with drunkenness, stealing, etc. Hey, who are we to judge? We have no way of knowing unless we are a whore-hound, thief, liar, or drunk, right? What's the difference? Sin is sin and any sin can be justified by your logic. Why do you and others feel compelled to make homosexuality different? There is absolutely no science that proves people are born gay. Like any sin, it is learned behavior. Like any aforementioned sin, it takes root in the carnal mind that is at enmity with God. Those in the flesh are not aware their own godless nature is leading them to violate God's laws. That's the whole point of the gospel, to preach deliverance to the captives, not to coddle them in their sin.
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10/16/19 8:43 am


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Post Bro Bob
Someone relevant to this discussion once gave a sinner some good advice:
Quote:
"You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.”
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10/16/19 9:08 am


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Post Resident Skeptic
Bro Bob wrote:
Someone relevant to this discussion once gave a sinner some good advice:
Quote:
"You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.”


Whoever said that was an insensitive JERK.....uh.......err......oh...wait.....never mind.
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10/16/19 11:59 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
It’s not the church’s place to condemn those who are outside the church and that’s exactly what is happening and it keeps people away. When their only exposure to Christians is a hatred towards them, why should they listen to anything a Christian has to say? So, are we concerned about the soul of a person or just repulsed by a lifestyle and just want to yell at them that they’re going to hell in a tone that almost seems like we’re happy about it? I can tell you this, what we’re doing now isn’t working. It’s time that a Christian comes across more loving than Ellen. If I were gay, the last place I would want to go is a church where I’m going to be told that I’m going to hell because of something I have no control over. Who needs that?


"Having no control over it" has never mattered to God when it comes to any sin. Heterosexual whore-hounds have no control over it, either. Neither do drunks and thieves. Christ came to free us from both the condemnation and control of sin. God has promised grace to those who humble themselves. Gays should not be treated any different than anyone else. God commandeth men everywhere to repent and to acknowledge their inability in themselves to live a life pleasing to God.


You have no way of knowing unless you’re gay. I know a lot of gay people who have prayed and agonized to the brink of suicide for God to take the sexual desire for the same sex away. So, if you want to condemn them, go ahead. It is not just as simple as a single that they can walk away from. If we have people who are born with abnormalities and show them love and mercy, we should do the same for these folks. I will and I do.


My heterosexual Bible College roommate had sex with every girl he dated...in Bible College. Most of the time he did not date. But when he did, he was doinking. Nice guy. He wept and cried and agonized, but repeatedly failed. I have known Christians who struggled on and off with drunkenness, stealing, etc. Hey, who are we to judge? We have no way of knowing unless we are a whore-hound, thief, liar, or drunk, right? What's the difference? Sin is sin and any sin can be justified by your logic. Why do you and others feel compelled to make homosexuality different? There is absolutely no science that proves people are born gay. Like any sin, it is learned behavior. Like any aforementioned sin, it takes root in the carnal mind that is at enmity with God. Those in the flesh are not aware their own godless nature is leading them to violate God's laws. That's the whole point of the gospel, to preach deliverance to the captives, not to coddle them in their sin.


So, now we want to include science when it’s convenient. I get it.
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10/16/19 1:29 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
It’s not the church’s place to condemn those who are outside the church and that’s exactly what is happening and it keeps people away. When their only exposure to Christians is a hatred towards them, why should they listen to anything a Christian has to say? So, are we concerned about the soul of a person or just repulsed by a lifestyle and just want to yell at them that they’re going to hell in a tone that almost seems like we’re happy about it? I can tell you this, what we’re doing now isn’t working. It’s time that a Christian comes across more loving than Ellen. If I were gay, the last place I would want to go is a church where I’m going to be told that I’m going to hell because of something I have no control over. Who needs that?


"Having no control over it" has never mattered to God when it comes to any sin. Heterosexual whore-hounds have no control over it, either. Neither do drunks and thieves. Christ came to free us from both the condemnation and control of sin. God has promised grace to those who humble themselves. Gays should not be treated any different than anyone else. God commandeth men everywhere to repent and to acknowledge their inability in themselves to live a life pleasing to God.


You have no way of knowing unless you’re gay. I know a lot of gay people who have prayed and agonized to the brink of suicide for God to take the sexual desire for the same sex away. So, if you want to condemn them, go ahead. It is not just as simple as a single that they can walk away from. If we have people who are born with abnormalities and show them love and mercy, we should do the same for these folks. I will and I do.


My heterosexual Bible College roommate had sex with every girl he dated...in Bible College. Most of the time he did not date. But when he did, he was doinking. Nice guy. He wept and cried and agonized, but repeatedly failed. I have known Christians who struggled on and off with drunkenness, stealing, etc. Hey, who are we to judge? We have no way of knowing unless we are a whore-hound, thief, liar, or drunk, right? What's the difference? Sin is sin and any sin can be justified by your logic. Why do you and others feel compelled to make homosexuality different? There is absolutely no science that proves people are born gay. Like any sin, it is learned behavior. Like any aforementioned sin, it takes root in the carnal mind that is at enmity with God. Those in the flesh are not aware their own godless nature is leading them to violate God's laws. That's the whole point of the gospel, to preach deliverance to the captives, not to coddle them in their sin.


So, now we want to include science when it’s convenient. I get it.


When have I ever denied the need for scientific analysis?
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10/16/19 2:07 pm


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Post Re: Niece, born raised in pentecost, embracing LGBTQ belief..... Link
buttrfli24 wrote:
Link wrote:
The underlying LGBT argument is that lust justifies sin.

Have you had a chance to have a question for her? If you get to a point where you say, "So you are saying that lust justifies sin?" that might help her think through it.


Hi! I noticed that you twice mentioned this about lust justifying sin and I was curious... do you believe that homosexual behavior is only about lust? Do you think they are capable of loving relationships or that everything is driven by sexual desire? Not trying to make a statement or start anything, just curious about your understanding. Thanks.


Marriage is not just about sex, but it doesn't really make sense to have marriage if there was no sex. If there were no sex and no ability to produce kids, then there would be no need for marriage. Men and women living in the same residence wouldn't be an issue because there is no sex.

Lust can be sexual, but it doesn't have to be. Jesus said that he that looks at a woman in order to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in her heart. I think most of us take the word 'lust' there to be sexual in nature, especially since 'adultery' is mentioned. But the LXX Greek translation in use back then used the same word or a form thereof for 'covet' that is translated 'lust' in this verse in Matthew 5.

Consider Exodus 20
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

It is possible to covet one's neighbors house, manservant, maidservant, or ox without wanting to have sex with these things. The same is true of coveting a wife. A man who is somewhat disinterested in sex in general could see his neighbor's wife has a sweet disposition and that she cooks the best biscuits in town and covet her for this, wishing she were his own wife.

Lusts are illicit desires. It is a wrong desire for a man to want to have sex with a man or woman with woman is a desire that should not be yielded to, not yielding the eyes or the mind. Just as adultery should not be yielded to. They shouldn't be seeking romantic relationships.

I have a friend who told me about an experience back before the gay thing took over the culture so much and before the courts wrongly redefined marriage to include same-sex unions, where he got a word of knowledge for a man who was called to be a preacher, but had gone off into a homosexual lifestyle. part of the revelation he got was the understanding that the man's feelings for his homosexual partner were just as strong as if they were for a woman. He said that the idea that this could be the case had not occurred to him. He shared the word with this guy and it was spot on.

Can homosexuals have warm 'loving' feelings toward each other? There are different kinds of love. Amnon loved Tamar, his own sister, raped her, and then hated her. That is not the kind of love we Christians we are supposed to have. Homosexuals may have a kind of 'love' in their relationships, but it is not the I Corinthians 13 kind of love, because this kind of love rejoices not in iniquity but rejoices in the truth.

Like people involved in homosexual relationships, partners in adultery may experience the same kind of warm 'loving' feelings for each other that dating or even married couples have for each other. But again, adulterous 'love' is not the i Corinthians 13 kind which does not delight in iniquity but rejoices in the truth.

And is there any lust that the adulterers have for each other that is not sexual. Let's suppose a pair of adulterers have sex and are totally satisfied sexually. The man looks at the woman and thinks he loves her so much. He wants her to be his own wife and not his neighbors. Isn't that covetousness (lust)? If he isn't thinking about and desiring sex, his lust is not purely sexual is it? It's illicit, covetous desire.

Paul wrote in Romans 7 that he would not have known lust if the law had not said, "Thou shalt not covet."
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10/22/19 3:31 pm


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Post Link
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Bro Bob wrote:
Someone relevant to this discussion once gave a sinner some good advice:
Quote:
"You will be accepted if you do what is right. But if you refuse to do what is right, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.”


Whoever said that was an insensitive JERK.....uh.......err......oh...wait.....never mind.


Not funny. Not appropriate.
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10/22/19 3:32 pm


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Post Bro Bob
Quote:
Not funny. Not appropriate.


I agree. Though I am not totally sure he was trying to be funny.

What he did do, however, was mimic exactly the way the world is responding to followers of Christ, who accurately and Biblically warn precious souls of the result of living according to the flesh, both in this life, and in the one to come.

The world has judged the one and only true God, and found themselves to be his moral superior.

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