Actscelerate.com

Dave Dorsey

How many times can you gain/lose/regain your salvation?

Dave Dorsey · [Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **10/5/19 1:29 am**

This question is kind of related to the thread about eternal security, but not really related to the question.

I see three possible answers:

A) You can't lose your salvation if you are truly saved

B) You can lose your salvation, but only once, and then there is no possibility to regain it

C) You can repeat the process of gaining and losing your salvation many times

Which do you affirm?

For those who affirm 'C' -- how does this work in terms of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, etc?

Edit: When I say "lose", I mean lose by any means -- so if you think people can depart from their salvation and become unsaved, then that would be "losing" for the sake of this question. Sorry for the lack of clarity on my part.

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **10/5/19 6:45 am**

You cannot â€œloseâ€ your salvation. However, just because we become believers doesnâ€™t mean that we lose our free-will. So, I believe that most people that are saved remain saved.

Iâ€™ll go with A with a â€œhowever.â€ Smile

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **10/5/19 6:49 am**

caseyleejones

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11794 **10/5/19 9:43 am**

A

a

a

Da Sheik

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1860 **10/5/19 1:13 pm**

This is why it's absurd to use Hebrews 6 as proof that you can gain/lose/gain salvation. Hebrews 6:4 says it is impossible to renew such a person in stated case. So if a person uses Hebrews 6 as proof that a born-again Christian can lose their salvation, they must at least be consistent. If Hebrews 6 teaches a Christian can become unsaved (which I don't believe it does) then it must also mean that a person who becomes unsaved again must remain that way. There is no room for future repentance.

Eddie Robbins

Acts-pert Poster Posts: 16509 **10/5/19 2:11 pm**

caseyleejones

Acts-perienced Poster Posts: 11794 **10/5/19 2:58 pm**

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

It says to renew them unto repentance....not salvation, not forgiveness, etc.....

How many christians meet those qualifiers? I think it is basically saying that you've tasted all that God has and if you still walk away, nothing will convince you to come back.

Again, I know very few people who meet those qualifiers.

Bottom line, you can walk away, but lose? no. I have seen many fall away due to bad circumstances and the difficulties of life. They were derailed. God is still in their life.

Aaron Scott

Da Sheik...think about it

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **10/5/19 5:26 pm**

Aaron Scott

We are playing with theological terms...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6032 **10/5/19 5:33 pm**

For instance, the Calvinist will insist that the Arminian thinks that a person can get saved a MILLION times, then fall away, then be saved again.

The Arminian claims that Calvinist believe that one you get saved, you can become a homosexual, genocidal maniac...and still be saved.

In other words, we paint such extremes that OF COURSE you have to be right.

In truth, I imagine that a person can get saved, fall away, and be restored at least 70 x 7. I think I would at least win that case in heaven's court--assuming it is sincere repentance.

But it is more likely that such often falling away is not followed by true repentance--which would, I think, lead one to make a better attempt to live for the Lord.

HOWEVER, I have known a number of people who when through, oh, I suppose, a dozen or so episodes over a long period of years. They would be serving God...then they were out of church, perhaps living in sin, etc. And yet I feel that God forgave them EVERY TIME...because I think that every time they were utterly sincere. And I think they made it. I cannot go on anything but my own discernment, but I believe it is valid.

Some people face different temptations...have a different hardwiring...and the such...and so don't do as well, perhaps, as some of us others have been able to do--perhaps surrounded with Christian family, etc.

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **10/5/19 5:38 pm**

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **10/5/19 5:45 pm**

sheepdogandy

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 7298 **10/5/19 9:12 pm**

One is saved as long as they believe.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church

Bro Bob

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3945 **10/8/19 9:09 pm**

An actual real life answer to this is clear in the story of Simon, the ex-sorcerer.

But it never gets preached the way it is written, and it won't be accepted that way on here either.

Just sit back and watch.

BB

Acts 8

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **10/9/19 6:14 am**

roughridercog

Backsliding?

Acts Mod Posts: 25306 **10/9/19 7:18 am**

One of the most practiced doctrines of the modern church. Laughing

_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation

Dave Dorsey

Re: Backsliding?

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **10/9/19 7:42 am**

Bro Bob

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3945 **10/9/19 8:29 am**

Dave, I accept the story as it is told. Although it only takes about 15 verses to tell it, the truth is the timeline from Simon's conversion to Peter's rebuke and his 2nd repentance took a minimum of weeks if not months.

I have often heard it preached that Simon was bitter about losing his influence, and ability to profit from it. But if that is true, why does he not offer money to Phillip for the ability to heal people? And why was Phillip evangelizing so successfully, but none were being filled with the Holy Ghost? Why don't we Pentecostals talk about that?

Simon did everything we would tell a new convert to do. He believed. He followed the Lord in the first act of obedience in water baptism. And he stayed at it. Then word to gets back to Jerusalem of the success of Phillip's evangelism.

I find it remarkable that when Peter arrives later and introduces Spirit baptism to the new converts, NOW Simon desires that ability and is willing to pay money for it.

At this point, Peter's words are all we need to know about this new christian: He still has some repenting to do. And that is exactly how Peter phrases it. "Repent therefore of this thy wickedness." Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter. Your heart is not right in the sight of God.

And Simon does just that. The last thing we hear of Simon is him asking Peter to pray for him.

So many of our questions are answered in this one true story. I accept it exactly as it is told.

Yes. Believe and repent and you are saved.
No. A Christian does not have a free pass to sin sin sin, (since his conversion forgave all sins, past present and future).
Yes. A Christian who sins has an obligation to mend what he can mend, and repent to both God and anyone he has offended, else his heart is not right and his soul will perish with his money.

Q) What was it God said to Cain? A) If you do right, won't you be accepted?

Q) What did we use to teach Boy Scouts? A) On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country, and to obey the scout law.

The best advice I ever got was from a knife collector buddy who was Church of Christ: "Bob, do what you know to do ... and don't do what you know not to do."

We sing and preach about the liberty and freedom that following Christ beings. And it truly does, and with it comes provision. But the choice to use that liberty and freedom wrongly is still on the table, and this, too, brings its own end result, whether you are a believer or not.

I see no need to teach any other doctrine.

This theology of separation between what we say we believe and what we do thereafter is poisonous evil straight from the deceiver. It will rob you of blessing in this life, and unless you turn from it (repent) it will rob you of eternal life with Christ.

BB

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **10/9/19 8:36 am**

Thanks for the thorough explanation.

Given the historically affirmed approach of letting Scripture interpret Scripture, it seems unwise to me to let a single story in which the progression of events is open to reasonable alternative interpretation be what defines a doctrine of death with unconfessed sin of any sort resulting in eternal damnation.

While this story in isolation could certainly be interpreted as demonstrating this view, allowing it in isolation to "answer all of our questions" on this topic when the rest of Scripture does not affirm this view seems dangerous.

If this were the only place in the New Testament where sin and forgiveness was discussed, it would be reasonable to draw a doctrine of damnation for the believer for any unconfessed sin. However, gloriously, thankfully, that is not the case.

Dave Dorsey

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 13654 **10/9/19 8:39 am**

Bro Bob

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3945 **10/9/19 8:44 am**

Do you think Simon realized his offer revealed sin in his heart before Peter rebuked him? Did Simon think what he was doing was wrong?