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 Hypothetically speaking... |
Darrell Garrett |
| I was asked just a few minutes ago a question, and I'm only guessing to the answer. If a state office were to close a church and sell the property when the church is against closing it and is financially able to keep its doors open, what would be their chances of suing for their property? I do know that it has happened in other denominations. I've told them that I really don't think it would be the thing I would do, but I do wonder how this would shake down in the court. Has this ever been challenged by a Church of God? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5329
6/25/19 12:36 pm
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| My view.... |
Aaron Scott |
The Church of God, if it holds the deed, can almost certainly make the stronger case for disposing of the church as they see fit.
BUT...
But there is a PR issue too. If the Church of God knew that the TV stations, newspapers, etc., would pick up the story about the "the poor, faithful members who have labored so hard for their church, but have to close the doors due to the big, bad denominational leaders," it likely would exert enough pressure to create some sort of compromise.
I recall many years ago, when Actscelerate was THE sheriff in town, that someone wrote on Actscelerate something an overseer was trying to do that they did not agree with. I don't recall all the particulars, but it seems it not only turned that situation around, but put all the other overseers on notice to walk circumspectly (not that they weren't already, but I'm sure the reminder didn't hurt). |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6039
6/25/19 12:53 pm
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Darrell Garrett |
| I am not postive, but I think it was in the Methodist church where a congregation sued and the court ruled that those who paid for the property had the right to sell or not and they awarded them the church. I know the COG is set up very similar. It's going to happen, sooner or later where it is tested. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5329
6/25/19 1:21 pm
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Darrell Garrett |
| Anyway, it's not my worry anymore. I was just asking because I was asked by a former member. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5329
6/25/19 1:25 pm
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| Re: Hypothetically speaking... |
Dean Steenburgh |
| Darrell Garrett wrote: | | I was asked just a few minutes ago a question, and I'm only guessing to the answer. If a state office were to close a church and sell the property when the church is against closing it and is financially able to keep its doors open, what would be their chances of suing for their property? I do know that it has happened in other denominations. I've told them that I really don't think it would be the thing I would do, but I do wonder how this would shake down in the court. Has this ever been challenged by a Church of God? |
Hi Darrell,
I'll tell you this much from personal experience.
After a decent convo with one of our former AB's this very subject you mentioned came up & the question evolved around these extraordinarily expensive properties in our state.
A simple 2 acre parcel in Calif. can be worth millions.
The former AB said, "it is not in the best interest of either party to have to engage in a lawsuit but if it did happen we simply don't have the resources to fight every case in court ...we would probably just have to let those types of lawsuits go to the local church, especially since they were the ones who paid for the property."
The big issue for some would be how much of the CoG name did they use & did they build their identity off of the denomination.
If the name of the church was "Wildside Center of Worship" & the place looked like most indie churches with very little CoG identity associated with it, chances are the courts would side with the local congregation.
But if you pulled up to the church & the sign read like:
"Southside Church of God"
Established in 1935
Bishop Cedric J Jones Pastor
Southside CoG is a member of the CoG, Cleveland, Tenn.
And when you walk inside the building the DoF is hanging in the entryway, the colors of the place are blue & gold, posters abound describing youth camp, missions works, camp meeting, general assembly, women's ministry & of course Lee U., don't be shocked if the courts side with the denom.
Here in Calif. this very lawsuit came about between the Episcopal Church & it's member churches.
Several of their congregations would not accept the gay marriage position of endorsement the denom was taking, so they sued to keep their properties & maintain their adherents.
They lost the court battle because they had benefitted from the denominational name & identity.
The courts found that the local congregation experienced noticeable growth in attendance based on denominational name identity & the fact that inside the church the congregations had all the typical printed material of events that were sponsored by their state & regional offices.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
6/25/19 1:41 pm
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Darrell Garrett |
| Interesting points Dean. Thanks. As I said, I told the former member that I personally would not go this route and advised him against it, for multiple reasons. For one, talk about ugly PR for all concerned. Secondly, if they are looking at closing a church, most likely there is a good reason. Third, It would probably be very expensive for everyone involved and the lawyers are the only ones who would win. I'd just move on. But that's just me. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5329
6/25/19 1:51 pm
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| So THAT's why.... |
Aaron Scott |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | Darrell Garrett wrote: | | I was asked just a few minutes ago a question, and I'm only guessing to the answer. If a state office were to close a church and sell the property when the church is against closing it and is financially able to keep its doors open, what would be their chances of suing for their property? I do know that it has happened in other denominations. I've told them that I really don't think it would be the thing I would do, but I do wonder how this would shake down in the court. Has this ever been challenged by a Church of God? |
Hi Darrell,
I'll tell you this much from personal experience.
After a decent convo with one of our former AB's this very subject you mentioned came up & the question evolved around these extraordinarily expensive properties in our state.
A simple 2 acre parcel in Calif. can be worth millions.
The former AB said, "it is not in the best interest of either party to have to engage in a lawsuit but if it did happen we simply don't have the resources to fight every case in court ...we would probably just have to let those types of lawsuits go to the local church, especially since they were the ones who paid for the property."
The big issue for some would be how much of the CoG name did they use & did they build their identity off of the denomination.
If the name of the church was "Wildside Center of Worship" & the place looked like most indie churches with very little CoG identity associated with it, chances are the courts would side with the local congregation.
But if you pulled up to the church & the sign read like:
"Southside Church of God"
Established in 1935
Bishop Cedric J Jones Pastor
Southside CoG is a member of the CoG, Cleveland, Tenn.
And when you walk inside the building the DoF is hanging in the entryway, the colors of the place are blue & gold, posters abound describing youth camp, missions works, camp meeting, general assembly, women's ministry & of course Lee U., don't be shocked if the courts side with the denom.
Here in Calif. this very lawsuit came about between the Episcopal Church & it's member churches.
Several of their congregations would not accept the gay marriage position of endorsement the denom was taking, so they sued to keep their properties & maintain their adherents.
They lost the court battle because they had benefitted from the denominational name & identity.
The courts found that the local congregation experienced noticeable growth in attendance based on denominational name identity & the fact that inside the church the congregations had all the typical printed material of events that were sponsored by their state & regional offices. |
So maybe that's why so many churches don't include "Church of God" in their name: they're positioning themselves for the future. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6039
6/25/19 4:22 pm
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Cojak |
I only know of one situation, well publicized. Paw Creek COG. when the law suit came up, a family member was the Evangelism Director at the time. He told me that the Catholic & Methodist denominations contacted NC State HQ to offer finances for attorneys if needed to stay the course.
I do understand many ministers are setting the stage if need be, by renting vs buying, or leasing from members to ensure they have the upper hand financially.
I am at the point where I do not blame them. 
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
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Posts: 24284
6/25/19 9:32 pm
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