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How did we get to this place?
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Post How did we get to this place? MayB2Day
Recently one of my members told me she would be out the next Sunday because she was going to her niece’s church to see her be baptized.

Several weeks after that this member was hospitalized for complications with her pregnancy. I went to see her in the hospital. While I was there several other family members were there visiting as well, including the aforementioned niece.

At one point a nurse came in and asked us all to step out for a few minutes while they did some things for the patient. While we were in the hall an interesting conversation took place.

The niece was asked about her big day when she was baptized. Her response left me scratching my head.

She talked about how wonderful it was and God has been blessing her. She talked about being filled the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. She then said “I went home and told my boyfriend that we needed to get married and stop living in sin.”

How did we get the place where someone , by their own admission, is living in sin and still think they have the Holy Ghost?

What am I missing?
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Post Re: How did we get to this place? Resident Skeptic
MayB2Day wrote:
Recently one of my members told me she would be out the next Sunday because she was going to her niece’s church to see her be baptized.

Several weeks after that this member was hospitalized for complications with her pregnancy. I went to see her in the hospital. While I was there several other family members were there visiting as well, including the aforementioned niece.

At one point a nurse came in and asked us all to step out for a few minutes while they did some things for the patient. While we were in the hall an interesting conversation took place.

The niece was asked about her big day when she was baptized. Her response left me scratching my head.

She talked about how wonderful it was and God has been blessing her. She talked about being filled the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. She then said “I went home and told my boyfriend that we needed to get married and stop living in sin.”

How did we get the place where someone , by their own admission, is living in sin and still think they have the Holy Ghost?

What am I missing?


Does not God give us the Spirit to lead us out of sinfulness and into deeper sanctification?
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6/1/19 10:22 am


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Post Maybe we have ... Mat
Maybe we have over spiritualized the role a marriage license from the state has in marriage. Perhaps, its the intercourse between two adults which makes them one flesh before God. Paul said, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." (I Corinthians 6:16 NIV)

I'm trying to recall a scripture in the New Testament (or old) where a minister was involved in officiating a marriage, and the marriage was "registered" with the rulers. I see the role of cohabitation, I see the role of family approval, I see the role of intercourse ("knowing your wife) and having children together. Where is that scripture about a minister and the government?

That's way, no intercourse there is no marriage - you got to "know" your wife.

This I do know, the Spirit transcends the circumstances and them transforms the sinner.

Mat
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Post Not going to excuse....but this new generation caseyleejones
of church going kids see that it is okay to live together. I have seen this a lot with church going kids. They will go on vacation together...etc....

The argument they will say is that they sleep in separate beds and are not having sex.
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6/1/19 11:37 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
I'm not sure I'm following here. She heard the gospel and became regenerated and filled with the Holy Spirit, then went home and told her boyfriend they needed to repent from their sin?

How did we get to this place? It sounds like we got here because Christ came to seek and save that which was lost?
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6/1/19 12:04 pm


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Post sheepdogandy
My wife and I lived together for over two years before we were married.

One Sunday she went to a homecoming service at the church she was raised in.

The Holy Spirit drew her to the altar and she prayed through.

She did not return home until late that evening.

When she arrived she was crying and I assumed someone had offended her.

I was ready to offend the offender.

She said no one had hurt her.

She continued to cry, and cry, and cry...

Finally she announced that we were going fishing the next day.

She cried some more and would not let me within arms reach.

Next morning, more crying.

We arrive at Lake Weiss, launch the boat, and proceed to one of our favorite fishing spots.

More crying.

At the end of my patience I declare.

"Woman if you don't tell me what is wrong, I will throw you into the lake"!

Her response.

"Andy, I love you, but I prayed yesterday and I am going to serve the Lord, if you don't want to marry me you will have to leave".

Can you imagine, she chose Christ over me.

I said, "Is that it, that's all, you want to get married, I love you crazy woman, let's get married".

We were married as fast as one could in the state of GA.

The rest is history. Very Happy
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6/1/19 1:38 pm


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Post Cojak
Dave Dorsey wrote:
I'm not sure I'm following here. She heard the gospel and became regenerated and filled with the Holy Spirit, then went home and told her boyfriend they needed to repent from their sin?

How did we get to this place? It sounds like we got here because Christ came to seek and save that which was lost?

Thumb Up

I can understand the 'how did we get here?' in relation to the easy 'live-in' society. We are less than 50% married now. But the story seemed to resonate to me that one comfortable with the 'live-in society' SAW THE LIGHT!
I hope the best for the young lady in her search to be a CHRISTIAN.

It is a strange thing how we feel (felt) about 'sanctification' and the sins we know the converted will have to drop 'moving from Salvation to sanctification'. Smokers could continue smoking until they were sanctified. But I don't think we allowed the 'drinking' to continue until sanctified' no more than we would allow someone living together until they could 'GET IT RIGHT!

Well at least they could not join the church until they worked it all out.

Shocked
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6/1/19 2:04 pm


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Post Cojak
sheepdogandy wrote:
My wife and I lived together for over two years before we were married.

...
We were married as fast as one could in the state of GA.

The rest is history. Very Happy


Thumb Up Cool


You do realize if you are ever selected for the Supreme Court (or maybe a JP), this confession, a preacher being alone in a boat with a single woman, will be brought up! Very Happy

When you became a preacher will not matter! LOL
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6/1/19 2:11 pm


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Post MayB2Day
Dave Dorsey wrote:
I'm not sure I'm following here. She heard the gospel and became regenerated and filled with the Holy Spirit, then went home and told her boyfriend they needed to repent from their sin?

How did we get to this place? It sounds like we got here because Christ came to seek and save that which was lost?


She claims to have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost before her water baptism and declaring her need to change.

Have we reached the place where a person can be saved and skip right over sanctification to being baptized in the Holy Ghost? If not, then how can someone living in sin claim sanctification?

Have we been wrong all these years teaching salvation, then sanctification, and then Holy Ghost baptismal?

I guess I’m just too old school to understand this anything goes brand of Christianity being practiced today.
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6/1/19 2:21 pm


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Post Re: How did we get to this place? MayB2Day
[quote="Resident Skeptic said

Does not God give us the Spirit to lead us out of sinfulness and into deeper sanctification?[/quote]

He does. But you are talking about God’s Spirit we receive at conversion.

I’ve always believed that sanctification is necessary for someone to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. How can someone be sanctified co-habitating?
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6/1/19 2:29 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
It sounds like you're more concerned with your understanding of the ordo salutis than you are the fact that Christ has changed her desires and she now wants to repent of her sin and serve Him.

Maybe she was completely mistaken about the legitimacy of her earlier experience. That's probably something she can work out as she is discipled. Or maybe she wasn't mistaken and what you believe is wrong. Or maybe what you believe is right and God did things differently here. Or maybe something else.

Who cares, though? What we know for sure is that a sinner is repenting of her sin and believing the gospel! This is worthy of celebration, not mourning.
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6/1/19 2:32 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
I would totally understand this line of thinking if she was shouting in tongues and waving her hands in the altar every Sunday while unrepentantly fornicating.

But dude... she went home and told him they need to repent of their sin and make it right.

What else are you looking for here?
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6/1/19 2:43 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
sheepdogandy wrote:
Can you imagine, she chose Christ over me.

This is great. My wife has told me she will always choose Christ over me. I wouldn't trade the marriage that's created for anything in the world.
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6/1/19 2:51 pm


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Post Preacher777
The question at hand is what the woman did after telling her boyfriend that they should quit living in sin. Did she jump in bed with him that night and agree to talk about it more later? I feel the Bible plainly teaches that if one repents, accepts Christ and is Spirit-filled the Bible plainly teaches that we cannot put anybody before Christ. Therefore, I feel that conviction must be accompanied with the follow through of leaving the house.

Jesus taught "Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me." I realize young people don't think it is wrong. However, the Bible is based upon absolute truths, not secular humanism.
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Post Re: How did we get to this place? Resident Skeptic
MayB2Day wrote:
[quote="Resident Skeptic said

Does not God give us the Spirit to lead us out of sinfulness and into deeper sanctification?


Quote:
He does. But you are talking about God’s Spirit we receive at conversion.

I’ve always believed that sanctification is necessary for someone to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. How can someone be sanctified co-habitating?[/quote
]

I'm not referring to the supposed "second work" of sanctification. I believe Spirit baptism is given in part to begin leading us out of sinful error. She received the Holy Ghost just like Paul said the Galatians did, by the hearing of faith, based on Christ's work at the cross. I don't see all of this breaking up receiving the Spirit into two or three "subsequent work of grace".
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6/2/19 2:58 pm


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Post Darrell Garrett
I have to ask how we got to the place where we dare to tell God how to do what He does? He's God and He does not ask for our approval or permission to do a work in someone's life. I just say, "Yeah God!" I'm so glad he does what He does without worrying if it meets the approval of the religious crowd. Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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Post Nature Boy Florida
I would that all of us would get filled with the Holy Spirit - and realize the sins we are committing and begin to make them right.

Good for this woman.
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Post Re: How did we get to this place? Da Sheik
MayB2Day wrote:


I’ve always believed that sanctification is necessary for someone to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. How can someone be sanctified co-habitating?


Herein lies your dilemma:

Galatians 3:2-3 “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?”
‭‭
Spirit baptism is by faith. We are justified by faith. God is not impressed by the works of the flesh. No one is baptized in the Spirit because they are sinless. They are filled with the Spirit because of what Jesus did and their faith in His finished work. Sometimes that doesn’t fit within our chronology of how the sequence of events should transpire.
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6/2/19 8:23 pm


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Post Re: Maybe we have ... UncleJD
Mat wrote:
Maybe we have over spiritualized the role a marriage license from the state has in marriage. Perhaps, its the intercourse between two adults which makes them one flesh before God. Paul said, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." (I Corinthians 6:16 NIV)

I'm trying to recall a scripture in the New Testament (or old) where a minister was involved in officiating a marriage, and the marriage was "registered" with the rulers. I see the role of cohabitation, I see the role of family approval, I see the role of intercourse ("knowing your wife) and having children together. Where is that scripture about a minister and the government?

That's way, no intercourse there is no marriage - you got to "know" your wife.

This I do know, the Spirit transcends the circumstances and them transforms the sinner.

Mat


this needs a lot of unpacking before I say I agree, but I do believe there are some real nuggets here. As far as my research goes, there was never any document or requirement for a priest (later pastor) for marriage. It was always just a declaration and a deed. I believe the declaration was supposed to come first, and there is even an OT scripture on the remedy if that didn't happen (too lazy to look it up right now but I know its there). I think the earliest references to a ceremony come from around the 11th century (ironically the same century as the first great split in the Church). Certificates or licensing of marriage was much later than that, and is very strange how it came about (i.e. why did we ever think it was a good idea to let the government define marriage all those centuries ago, and why are we surprised now that they get to define it any ol' way they want to now?). Anyways, I see the OP's point if you assume that they continued in "sin" (we don't know that from the post), but maybe, just maybe they prayed and agreed with God that they were indeed one-flesh (Biblical marriage).
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6/3/19 8:25 am


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Post revuriah
Here’s a scripture that perhaps sheds some light on this...
Quote:
“While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭NIV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/111/act.10.44-48.niv


Cornelius and his fellow Romans received the baptism in the Spirit as they heard the message. There is no recorded confession of faith, and Peter was shocked. Then afterward he called for water baptism.

The fruits of repentance seem present. I say rejoice.[/quote]
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