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Franklin Graham and the lost evangelical witness (L)

 
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Post Franklin Graham and the lost evangelical witness (L) Eddie Robbins
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/franklin-graham-and-the-high-cost-of-the-lost-evangelical-witness/ Acts-pert Poster
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4/26/19 9:37 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Read this yesterday, glad you shared it here. Graham has no business criticizing Buttigieg for anything, as French observes:

Quote:
Yes, marriage is the union between a man and a woman, but Trump married a woman, then married his mistress, then married a third woman, then had an affair with a porn star while that third wife was pregnant with his child. Yet Graham says, “God put him” in the presidency and we need to “get behind him and support him.”

If Trump can be God's man, why can't Buttigieg? If "this thing with Stormy Daniels and so forth is nobody’s business", why is Buttigieg's sexuality anyone's business?

Graham is not wrong, but his vocal support of Trump has cost him his witness. Many of Trump's evangelical supporters (especially on this forum) make it clear that they do not approve of much of Trump's character, but view him as a much preferable alternative to the Democrats. I can understand that.

But Graham did not make that distinction. He was quick to brush away any criticism of Trump's character, and now he wants to have a voice criticizing the biblical fidelity of someone who, like Trump, is a self-professed Christian. Graham gave his witness away for a bowl of stew and has no one to blame but himself for the blowback he received in response to these tweets.
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4/26/19 9:47 am


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Post Change Agent
Lots of truth in this article. Many Christian leaders like Graham are losing their witness fast. One thing I would like to point out is that Franklins father Rev. Billy didn't demonize any of the presidents. He had an open door to all presidents during his time. Presidents sought Rev. Billy out when they needed prayer and advise. Acts Enthusiast
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4/27/19 8:01 am


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Post Dave, you are really a piece of work. brotherjames
We get it you hate Trump. But to actually criticize Franklin Graham for taking a Biblical stance and using a man like David French just because he hates Trump more than you is appalling g.

Here is a pull quote about this article. Read this and repent.
"French of course is rudderless when it comes to morality, his morality is as subjective as anyone else in the media. French merely used Evangelicals as the straw man to attack Trump. His thinly veiled criticisms were nothing more than a coping mechanism to convince himself that not supporting Trump was a good decision and that his requirement to double down is also a good decision. French doesn’t actually care about whether Christian morals are reflected in national leadership, he merely cares that he will be able to tell everyone how morally sound he feels about his decisions, no matter what true societal effect they have on our country."
For crying 'out loud. You dare call Graham a hypocrite. You have truly lost your mind. There is NO TRUTH in French's article. Nobody says Trump isnt flawed but last I looked so was King David et al. Get over yourself. And btw you can say whatever you want about why I was banned but we both know the truth, dont we?
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4/28/19 2:47 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
You missed the point, bro. Now 67% friendlier!
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4/28/19 2:51 pm


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Post Uh no bro brotherjames
I didn't miss a thing. I see what you said and vehemently disagree. Acts-celerater
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4/28/19 4:02 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
Yeah dude, you really did.

On the one hand, we have Trump violating biblical sexual ethics by marrying a woman, marrying his mistress, marrying a third woman, and then cheating on the third woman with a porn star while she was pregnant with his child. Concerning this, Graham said "this thing with Stormy Daniels and so forth is nobody's business."

On the other hand, we have Buttigieg violating biblical sexual ethics and Graham saying his lifestyle is "something to be repentant of, not something to be flaunted, praised or politicized."

My position is that both of these self-professing Christians should be reproved for their infidelity to Scripture and called to repentance

Your position (if you agree with Graham) is that only one of them should be criticized and called to repentance and the other's sexual sin is nobody's business

Please take a deep breath and try to understand the argument here. I agree with Graham's tweets. But that is not the position he took with Trump, and that is why we are talking about him having sacrificed his witness.
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4/28/19 4:20 pm


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Post So then...... spartanfan
hypothetically, if Trump were impeached and Pence went in as the POTUS - all of this unrest and criticism on the part of the leftist idiots would cease? Their rage over Trump's immorality while winking at Clinton's is hypocritical (and vice versa I might add). But - the truth is that all of this rhetoric is driven by pure partisan politics on both sides of the aisle. Trump just had higher morals than the only opponent with any chance at all to make it into the white house - the old (bad) lesser of 2 evils, he undoubtedly was. I look at the platforms and choose life and sensible policies. I wouldn't choose Trump to be my pastor but as a President he is better than the Benghazi botcher. Everyone should agree on that. Pence would make a better pastor than either one if that's what you're looking for. Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
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4/28/19 6:40 pm


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Post Re: So then...... Cojak
spartanfan wrote:
hypothetically, if Trump were impeached and Pence went in as the POTUS - all of this unrest and criticism on the part of the leftist idiots would cease? Their rage over Trump's immorality while winking at Clinton's is hypocritical (and vice versa I might add). But - the truth is that all of this rhetoric is driven by pure partisan politics on both sides of the aisle. Trump just had higher morals than the only opponent with any chance at all to make it into the white house - the old (bad) lesser of 2 evils, he undoubtedly was. I look at the platforms and choose life and sensible policies. I wouldn't choose Trump to be my pastor but as a President he is better than the Benghazi botcher. Everyone should agree on that. Pence would make a better pastor than either one if that's what you're looking for.


Yes, I agree, politics plays a great part in many accusations. Here also. Everyone's sins register, timing for some sins seem to make them worse than others. Are they? I have no idea! They are all bad. Crying or Very sad
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4/28/19 8:44 pm


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Post Link
Considering that he is 'out of the closet' Buttigieg has to be the butt of many jokes considering that last name.
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4/29/19 12:52 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Bottom line - this current White House has taken more positive positions regarding the things that Christians have labeled as important for the U.S. Government to do than any administration in my lifetime.

Now - perhaps that is only 10% of our agenda - but it is 10% more than we have been getting.

For the first time Christians haven't been treated like blacks are treated by the Democrats. All lip service - no action.

If Graham likes Trump for that reason - I agree with him.

As for giving Trump a pass - I don't think so. He is handling it in private. I believe his father handled Clinton's infidelities in private, as well.
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4/29/19 7:12 am


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Post UncleJD
Oh boy, Christians defending and more than likely planning to vote for an open sodomite who pushes for abortion on demand along with the rest of the Godless democratic platform, are going to lecture about voting for Trump. This never gets old. I voted for Trump for what he promised to do and (for the most part) what he has done. I will do so again. I don't think he's a good guy, I wish he was, but he's not. That has to be terrible for his family and friends, neither of which am I. So this democrat seems like a nice guy, but I won't vote for a sodomite who seems to be a good guy but will do and promote the doing of very evil things (outside of his sodomy). Does that contribute to the loss of witness? It might, and that's terrible, but I'm pretty sure the world already hated us before Trump, and if they cared to read they'd see that most Christians don't support his ways, especially his past. But just like in 2016, I didn't choose Trump, I don't know if God did, but I do know that it seems like we don't have a real choice. I'm going to have to vote for the person who promises and defends freedom of practice (not the watered-down, so-called "freedom of faith" that really means "you can't practice that if it means saying anything negative about our sin"). Golf Cart Mafia Capo
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4/29/19 2:46 pm


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Post Dave Dorsey
No one's lecturing you for supporting Trump, UncleJD. He's not disqualified for office because of his moral character, at least not in my opinion. It's fine to support him on the basis of his policies while condemning his personal morality (which Graham declined to do, saying instead it was nobody's business -- contra his view of Buttigieg).

The question at hand is consistency.

Buttigieg is out because he supports the Democratic platform. No doubt about that.

But what if he was a conservative who aligned with GOP values and was going to institute conservative policies and nominate conservative judges -- and had a husband? What would we say then?

I'd say the same thing I have about Trump. How about you?

Our witness is compromised when we hold our opponents to a biblical standard but say it's "nobody's business" when it comes to our friends. That's what this article is about.
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4/29/19 3:02 pm


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