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Waambulance Man |
| Rick Whitter wrote: | Folks, there is no cover up. In the interest of the good of the church planter involved (he and his family have been through enough), I will say, no one has asked me (State Administrative Bishop) about this failed church plant. No one. The plant did not succeed. We have voluntarily communicated the turn of events with donors and with State leaders. Other than that, there is little to share. The church planter worked hard and tried but felt that the situation was not possible. And, by the way, the 40K figure is nonsense. The state invested about $5,000 in this project. Perhaps more money was contributed but not from our budget. Unfortunately, the plant did not succeed. There are no hard feelings and no one is to blame. The plan is to continue the efforts to plant new churches in Moline and across the State.
For those who are so concerned about the fate of this church plant, perhaps the Lord is calling you to invest in a new church. If so, contact me at rickwhitter@gmail.com or on my cell at 561 267-2967.
I do not frequent this site so please ask question to me directly.
Thanks, God bless! |
I see carefully chosen words "the state invested" but does not address the funds that were designated toward this church not reflected in a state budget. |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 94
4/13/19 9:43 am
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revuriah |
| Waambulance Man wrote: | | Rick Whitter wrote: | Folks, there is no cover up. In the interest of the good of the church planter involved (he and his family have been through enough), I will say, no one has asked me (State Administrative Bishop) about this failed church plant. No one. The plant did not succeed. We have voluntarily communicated the turn of events with donors and with State leaders. Other than that, there is little to share. The church planter worked hard and tried but felt that the situation was not possible. And, by the way, the 40K figure is nonsense. The state invested about $5,000 in this project. Perhaps more money was contributed but not from our budget. Unfortunately, the plant did not succeed. There are no hard feelings and no one is to blame. The plan is to continue the efforts to plant new churches in Moline and across the State.
For those who are so concerned about the fate of this church plant, perhaps the Lord is calling you to invest in a new church. If so, contact me at rickwhitter@gmail.com or on my cell at 561 267-2967.
I do not frequent this site so please ask question to me directly.
Thanks, God bless! |
I see carefully chosen words "the state invested" but does not address the funds that were designated toward this church not reflected in a state budget. |
You have a direct invitation to call the AB. Rather than throw shade talk to him.
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Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3682
4/13/19 12:35 pm
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AdamJ |
| The Bishop answered the question. The plant was going for several months. Paying very high rent according to the planter’s statement on other sites. If they only received 5k from the State they probably had to fold. You can’t keep paying out more than you are bring in. The planter should have been coached to keep expenses very low if support was going to be very low. Sounds like coaches didn’t train the planter good enough. Sounds like the State must not have much money to do Planting with. I thought 40k didn’t sound right for a stuggling State unless it came from selling churches or other assets. It’s sad they lost the little they had. I’m sure they need a success. Sorry this was not one. Let’s pray for Illinois. |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 65
4/13/19 7:25 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
With all due respect - 5K ain't enough money to plant a few trees - much less a church.
If that is all we are doing - we might was well stop that "initiative" and try something else. 
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
4/15/19 9:28 am
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Waambulance Man |
| Someone paid for all those bicycles, tv's and other items they gave away plus the stage, lighting and sound system. I don't care "who" gave the money or how it was distributed, the numbers are accurate. |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 94
4/15/19 10:23 am
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roughridercog |
| Waambulance Man wrote: | | Someone paid for all those bicycles, tv's and other items they gave away plus the stage, lighting and sound system. I don't care "who" gave the money or how it was distributed, the numbers are accurate. |
Hopefully it will not cause people to hesitate or stop supporting the planting of new churches. There is such blessing for those who support these worthy endeavors.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
4/15/19 7:55 pm
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AdamJ |
| Waambulance Man wrote: | | Someone paid for all those bicycles, tv's and other items they gave away plus the stage, lighting and sound system. I don't care "who" gave the money or how it was distributed, the numbers are accurate. |
Are you saying we may only be getting half truths. Lol
I would be embarrassed if the state only put 5k into their flag ship plant. No wonder the planter gave up. |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 65
4/15/19 9:04 pm
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| Don't forget the good news |
doyle |
First of all, thanks to an AB and State Council who are interested in planting new churches. It can be a major leap of faith. The desire to do good is in my opinion always a matter of the heart.
Secrecy, especially when it concerns money people donated to support the work of the Lord, can put good motives in suspect.
Romans 14:16 says, "Let not your good be evil spoken of."
Bring the minister's there into the "loop" instead of pushing them out of it. Just get over the old "you are not worthy to know." Ministers absolutely do have the right to know. They are not just part of the team. They ARE the team.
Share a brief letter, not email or text, with ministers there. Share what happened and plans for the future in that matter. Be sure to share about leadership's desire to reach out and plant a new church. Attempting to do good is not a loss.
Share some of the struggle in getting the church off the ground and in keeping it alive in the early stages of the project. This an be done without making negative statements about anyone. For example, if it is the case, "The couple who began the project with us, has not been able to continue."
Now what? "We are asking our ministers to join us in prayer for (what) to happen. Your prayers are much appreciated."
Doyle
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The largest room in the world is the room for improvement. |
Acts-celerate Owner
Posts: 6957
4/20/19 10:58 am
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diakoneo |
When I read about $5000 dollars given as aid to a church plant, I have to wonder about commitment to church planting. The 1960s were a boom time for the Church of God. Back then $5000 ($37,000 in todays dollars) would have been a great help to a plant. Today's dollars it comes to roughly $600.
When, I see some of the salaries of executives in the Church of God and look at what would be given to a church plant, well, I gotta scratch my head and wonder, what is going on??? Hopefully, this is just what the state gave in one instance and more was promised! Hopefully, general headquarters gave more! Perhaps we are planting so many churches that $5000 is all we can afford to give to a single plant.
It has been said, "Put your money where your mouth is" and if this is true($5000 dollars for a church plant) it is a sad commentary. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
4/21/19 10:00 am
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| If it's not one thing it's another! |
Clint Wills |
This thing started because someone perceived that the state office was withholding information. When the AB posted on this thread and clarified some information the conversation turned to how little the state office did to insure the success of the plant. We are truly a rare breed that will continually find something about which to complain.
My observation with a fair number of church planters that I have witnessed is that they don't want to get a job outside of church. If that's the case, then you had better do a TERRIFIC job of raising your own support. We are all in fundraising mode each week when we receive tithe and offerings. If you're a planter you have to be raising funds before you ever open your doors, but we shouldn't expect the state to just give us money because we have a license and desire. I don't know what Illinois's budget looks like, but based on what I have seen on this site Bishop Whitter has a significant desire to plant new churches, and I'd guess that he would do their very best to make them successful. Nobody, is spending ANY money hoping that it gets burned in a pile and left. Church planting is difficult, we know that - even some of the best leaders in the COG have struggled to plant churches. There is no magic pill to make it easy and simple...we continue to move the needle a little each day and be better at planting in 2019 than we were in 2018. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5163
4/22/19 8:12 am
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| Re: If it's not one thing it's another! |
Brandon Bowers |
| Clint Wills wrote: | This thing started because someone perceived that the state office was withholding information. When the AB posted on this thread and clarified some information the conversation turned to how little the state office did to insure the success of the plant. We are truly a rare breed that will continually find something about which to complain.
My observation with a fair number of church planters that I have witnessed is that they don't want to get a job outside of church. If that's the case, then you had better do a TERRIFIC job of raising your own support. We are all in fundraising mode each week when we receive tithe and offerings. If you're a planter you have to be raising funds before you ever open your doors, but we shouldn't expect the state to just give us money because we have a license and desire. I don't know what Illinois's budget looks like, but based on what I have seen on this site Bishop Whitter has a significant desire to plant new churches, and I'd guess that he would do their very best to make them successful. Nobody, is spending ANY money hoping that it gets burned in a pile and left. Church planting is difficult, we know that - even some of the best leaders in the COG have struggled to plant churches. There is no magic pill to make it easy and simple...we continue to move the needle a little each day and be better at planting in 2019 than we were in 2018. |
When I was church planting 10 years ago, I had guys on here laugh at me because our organization wanted me to raise $50k, just for my own salary. That's not counting the other $50k or more needed for the actual church plant.
You can start small, work an outside job, and do the organic church plant method, but it takes much longer. If you can raise your money, you can launch larger and make a more immediate impact in your community. That's why fund matching through ARC and similar organizations is so vital.
But either way, you have to pick your poison. Start small and be ok with it, or raise $100k and launch large.
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My Facebook www.facebook.com/theB3 |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4804
4/22/19 11:51 am
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Waambulance Man |
| I will say it again. The only "clarity" that has been brought by the AB where this church was located is that there was only $5000 budgeted from state funds allocated toward the church. It does not address funds which came from other sources be they individuals or divisions from Cleveland. The man said to call him if you have questions but I know no one who would risk all to make such a call. |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 94
4/23/19 2:38 pm
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cogcia |
| Ask no questions is you want to live another day in the great church. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
4/23/19 10:44 pm
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Waambulance Man |
 [url][/url] |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 94
4/24/19 8:25 pm
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AdamJ |
| We have not said anything so long our state is dying. We keep losing ground. |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 65
4/25/19 1:16 pm
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| Re: If it's not one thing it's another! |
Clint Wills |
| Brandon Bowers wrote: | | Clint Wills wrote: | This thing started because someone perceived that the state office was withholding information. When the AB posted on this thread and clarified some information the conversation turned to how little the state office did to insure the success of the plant. We are truly a rare breed that will continually find something about which to complain.
My observation with a fair number of church planters that I have witnessed is that they don't want to get a job outside of church. If that's the case, then you had better do a TERRIFIC job of raising your own support. We are all in fundraising mode each week when we receive tithe and offerings. If you're a planter you have to be raising funds before you ever open your doors, but we shouldn't expect the state to just give us money because we have a license and desire. I don't know what Illinois's budget looks like, but based on what I have seen on this site Bishop Whitter has a significant desire to plant new churches, and I'd guess that he would do their very best to make them successful. Nobody, is spending ANY money hoping that it gets burned in a pile and left. Church planting is difficult, we know that - even some of the best leaders in the COG have struggled to plant churches. There is no magic pill to make it easy and simple...we continue to move the needle a little each day and be better at planting in 2019 than we were in 2018. |
When I was church planting 10 years ago, I had guys on here laugh at me because our organization wanted me to raise $50k, just for my own salary. That's not counting the other $50k or more needed for the actual church plant.
You can start small, work an outside job, and do the organic church plant method, but it takes much longer. If you can raise your money, you can launch larger and make a more immediate impact in your community. That's why fund matching through ARC and similar organizations is so vital.
But either way, you have to pick your poison. Start small and be ok with it, or raise $100k and launch large. |
No doubt, and I completely agree. That's why I said that the planter had better hustle to raise money.
My largest point was that the thread started complaining about wasting $40k, then it came to light that it wasn't anywhere close to $40k the thread switched to complain that we hadn't given them enough. Either we give large and risk large - and be ok when the risk doesn't pan out OR we give smaller and risk smaller - we can't have it both ways. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5163
4/25/19 1:25 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Waambulance Man wrote: | | The man said to call him if you have questions but I know no one who would risk all to make such a call. |
We used to have a regular poster here named Travis. He asked the tough questions that folks didn't want to answer. He regularly risked it all.
He got asked to be on the Council of 18.
I guess they don't make em like they used to. I guess there is no one coming up the ranks as skilled in the manly arts as Travis.
That's a shame.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
4/25/19 2:37 pm
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| Re: If it's not one thing it's another! |
cogcia |
| Clint Wills wrote: | | Brandon Bowers wrote: | | Clint Wills wrote: | This thing started because someone perceived that the state office was withholding information. When the AB posted on this thread and clarified some information the conversation turned to how little the state office did to insure the success of the plant. We are truly a rare breed that will continually find something about which to complain.
My observation with a fair number of church planters that I have witnessed is that they don't want to get a job outside of church. If that's the case, then you had better do a TERRIFIC job of raising your own support. We are all in fundraising mode each week when we receive tithe and offerings. If you're a planter you have to be raising funds before you ever open your doors, but we shouldn't expect the state to just give us money because we have a license and desire. I don't know what Illinois's budget looks like, but based on what I have seen on this site Bishop Whitter has a significant desire to plant new churches, and I'd guess that he would do their very best to make them successful. Nobody, is spending ANY money hoping that it gets burned in a pile and left. Church planting is difficult, we know that - even some of the best leaders in the COG have struggled to plant churches. There is no magic pill to make it easy and simple...we continue to move the needle a little each day and be better at planting in 2019 than we were in 2018. |
When I was church planting 10 years ago, I had guys on here laugh at me because our organization wanted me to raise $50k, just for my own salary. That's not counting the other $50k or more needed for the actual church plant.
You can start small, work an outside job, and do the organic church plant method, but it takes much longer. If you can raise your money, you can launch larger and make a more immediate impact in your community. That's why fund matching through ARC and similar organizations is so vital.
But either way, you have to pick your poison. Start small and be ok with it, or raise $100k and launch large. |
No doubt, and I completely agree. That's why I said that the planter had better hustle to raise money.
My largest point was that the thread started complaining about wasting $40k, then it came to light that it wasn't anywhere close to $40k the thread switched to complain that we hadn't given them enough. Either we give large and risk large - and be ok when the risk doesn't pan out OR we give smaller and risk smaller - we can't have it both ways. |
No one said 40k did not get used. The AB only said what came out of state funds. That brought up a whole new question why the state invested so little.
I agree there is probably no way to win. There is so little trust everything is questioned. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 122
4/25/19 7:30 pm
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Waambulance Man |
| It is really no surprise that so many just accept "nothing to see here folks" and look the other way. This has been the way things have always been done in the Church of God for decades. All we need to do is ask why are so many long-term COG pastors bailing from the ship? Guys from Jim Bolin, Kevin Wallace, Jerry Lawson from some of our largest churches, not to mention dozens of faithful pastors of "smaller" churches. I hear that there have been 6 or 7 pastors in Illinois who have gone independent in the last few years. Why is this happening? Might I suggest that these men have had enough of the COG way of no accountability? |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 94
4/28/19 8:48 pm
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Cojak |
| Waambulance Man wrote: | | It is really no surprise that so many just accept "nothing to see here folks" and look the other way. This has been the way things have always been done in the Church of God for decades. All we need to do is ask why are so many long-term COG pastors bailing from the ship? Guys from Jim Bolin, Kevin Wallace, Jerry Lawson from some of our largest churches, not to mention dozens of faithful pastors of "smaller" churches. I hear that there have been 6 or 7 pastors in Illinois who have gone independent in the last few years. Why is this happening? Might I suggest that these men have had enough of the COG way of no accountability? |
Eventhough it sounds harsh, you do have a point here that many times we question things in our minds, but accept things as they are.
Are we shrinking or dying as an organization? I pray not! 
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4/28/19 9:14 pm
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