Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
r/Actscelerate

The Idea of Women Pastors is Unbiblical
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Acts-Celerate Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post The Idea of Women Pastors is Unbiblical Da Sheik
I have no desire to debate the merits of various titles like "Bishop" or "Ordained Minister". I want to talk about the completely unscriptural practice of appointing women as pastors/overseers of congregations. Some have been compromised and cannot speak objectively because their sisters, mothers, and grandmothers served as pastors.

Paul went to the trouble to give Timothy a specific set of qualifications for pastors/bishops and deacons. Some would say that Paul's directive "husband of one wife" was due to the cultural problems in Ephesus (the unruly women who were "busybodies" etc.). The problem with this line of reasoning is that Paul did not appeal to culture, he appealed to Creation!

1Ti 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.  2:13  For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 
2:14  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 2:15  Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.  (KJV)(emphasis mine)


From the beginning, God established gender roles. This is not misogyny. God created men to lead their homes. Not as dictators or masters over slaves. Husbands and fathers are to take care of their homes. Only in doing so, are they fit to lead God's church (I Tim 3:4-5). I find it reprehensible that we (the COG) demand that people believe "the whole counsel of God" when it comes to tongues and other Pentecostal distinctives, but violate the very plain teaching of scripture when it comes to qualifications for pastors.

I know some will see this as a strawman fallacy but I promise I'm not trying to predict we will go the way of the UMC and the Presbyterians. I'm sure the founders of Methodism and Presbyterianism never imagined they would be ordaining homosexual clergy and officiating gay weddings, but here we are. How did they get there? Surely it was by degrees, not in big strides. But I believe a failure to establish clear biblical roles of gender is a gateway for this kind of error to become established.

I promise you there is a whole generation of young people out there who do not hold to your grandmother's traditional ideas about sexuality and gender. These are the future leaders of the COG. It's time to stand up for the truth now before it's too late.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
2/7/19 12:33 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Quiet Wyatt
The qualitative difference that should be obvious between the liberal theological side and the classical Pentecostal and Holiness Movements’ affirmation of women in ministry and as pastors is that while the liberals were devaluing the authority and divine inspiration of the Scriptures, the Holiness and Pentecostal Movements were instead upholding the Scriptures while recognizing God’s sovereign scriptural right to gift and call whosoever to work in His kingdom. Pentecostals have not come at this issue from anything remotely similar to the modern feminist movement. In fact, surveys of female Pentecostal pastors and evangelists have revealed them to be very conservative theologically, and certainly not anything like the theological liberals in ‘mainstream’ denominations.

All of the proof texts cited against women serving as pastors must be interpreted in their proper historical and cultural context. They become mere pretexts otherwise.
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12784
2/7/19 1:12 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
The Biblical way, if that is truly important to you: Women are to remain silent in the churches. So, don’t allow them to even speak. They just need to shut up. Or, go ahead and pick and choose the scriptures that suit your prejudices. Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
2/7/19 1:48 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The Biblical way, if that is truly important to you: Women are to remain silent in the churches. So, don’t allow them to even speak. They just need to shut up. Or, go ahead and pick and choose the scriptures that suit your prejudices.


I got to agree with Eddie here.

If cultural differences from their time to now can't be taken into account - then women should tape their mouths shut as they enter the door.

Absolutely no speaking by women.

Any deviance from that and you are a huge liberal.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today!
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16599
2/7/19 2:35 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Tom Sterbens
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
The qualitative difference that should be obvious between the liberal theological side and the classical Pentecostal and Holiness Movements’ affirmation of women in ministry and as pastors is that while the liberals were devaluing the authority and divine inspiration of the Scriptures, the Holiness and Pentecostal Movements were instead upholding the Scriptures while recognizing God’s sovereign scriptural right to gift and call whosoever to work in His kingdom. Pentecostals have not come at this issue from anything remotely similar to the modern feminist movement. In fact, surveys of female Pentecostal pastors and evangelists have revealed them to be very conservative theologically, and certainly not anything like the theological liberals in ‘mainstream’ denominations.

All of the proof texts cited against women serving as pastors must be interpreted in their proper historical and cultural context. They become mere pretexts otherwise.

^^What he said!^^
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4507
2/7/19 3:47 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: The Idea of Women Pastors is Unbiblical Tom Sterbens
Da Sheik wrote:
Some have been compromised and cannot speak objectively because their sisters, mothers, and grandmothers served as pastors.


My favorite line from the original post (albeit not original...)
"If you have an opinion other than mine, you are lacking in the objective consideration of scripture."

Priceless...
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4507
2/7/19 3:50 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: The Idea of Women Pastors is Unbiblical Da Sheik
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
Some have been compromised and cannot speak objectively because their sisters, mothers, and grandmothers served as pastors.


My favorite line from the original post (albeit not original...)
"If you have an opinion other than mine, you are lacking in the objective consideration of scripture."

Priceless...


I actually do enjoy your humor Tom, but this is a mischaracterization. I’m simply saying many cannot speak objectively because there is an underlying conflict of interest.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
2/7/19 4:44 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: The Idea of Women Pastors is Unbiblical Quiet Wyatt
Da Sheik wrote:
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
Some have been compromised and cannot speak objectively because their sisters, mothers, and grandmothers served as pastors.


My favorite line from the original post (albeit not original...)
"If you have an opinion other than mine, you are lacking in the objective consideration of scripture."

Priceless...


I actually do enjoy your humor Tom, but this is a mischaracterization. I’m simply saying many cannot speak objectively because there is an underlying conflict of interest.


Conflicts of interest, presuppositions, and ingrained biases are definitely inherent to both sides of the debate.
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12784
2/7/19 5:07 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Dean Steenburgh
You can't bring this subject to light w/out debate.
Just for the record I find it highly offensive for anyone to directly or indirectly align the anointing of women in ministry as the same as anointing homosexuals in ministry.
Anyone who does this needs a serious break through in an old fashion altar if you can remember what altars are used for.

Da Sheik
Quote:
1Tim. 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


If a woman cannot teach it's going to invalidate a lot of Sunday School classes.
What do we do with Joel's prophecy ...was he wrong to include women?
Joel 2:28-29
28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. 29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.


If we are going to follow some of the teachings of 1 Tim. 2 then we have to follow them all rather than pick & choose.
1 Cor. 11:4-5
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.


So let's look at 1 Cor. 34 & 39 & we see in vs. 34 that women are not allowed to speak but 5 verses later they are encouraged to prophecy ...how can they be both silent & yet prophecy?
1 Cor. 14:34; 39 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
... 39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.


Then we have good ole Romans 16 where Sis. Phoebe leads as a deacon in the church ...pretty hard to be a silent leader.
Romans 16:1-2
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.
One verse states the role of a woman in the church is passive, submissive. The second states phoebe is a "deacon". Welcome her in a way that is proper for someone who has faith in the Lord and is one of God's own people. Help her in any way you can. After all, she has proved to be a respected leader for many others, including me.

1 Timothy 3 implies a deacon is a male (with reference to the fact that he must have one wife).
But here in Romans 16 we have a woman who is serving in a man's role?



.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"

Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com

Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on?
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/7/19 6:08 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: The Idea of Women Pastors is Unbiblical Tom Sterbens
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
Some have been compromised and cannot speak objectively because their sisters, mothers, and grandmothers served as pastors.


My favorite line from the original post (albeit not original...)
"If you have an opinion other than mine, you are lacking in the objective consideration of scripture."

Priceless...


I actually do enjoy your humor Tom, but this is a mischaracterization. I’m simply saying many cannot speak objectively because there is an underlying conflict of interest.


Conflicts of interest, presuppositions, and ingrained biases are definitely inherent to both sides of the debate.

^^^What he said^^^

The repeated frustration for me is due to the repeated assertion from those who oppose women in ministry, namely: Those of us who support women in ministry have lost objectivity to come to "truth" on the matter.

Ugh......

I am a fastidious student of scripture and a singularly high view of the authority of the Word of God. And I have always acknowledged those who hold a different opinion on this matter as being equally committed to the same.
We just land in a different place on what we believe scripture to say.

I just get weary of the direct or indirect shots that because I hold the view I do I am not faithful to scripture...or am liberal...or cannot be objective....whatever...
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4507
2/7/19 11:51 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Carolyn Smith
The COG would not be as widespread in America, if it were it not for women preachers, who established & pastored many COG in the early years. Interesting that our forefathers of faith allowed that.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5904
2/8/19 6:40 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
I acknowledge there are wise men and women who are strong Christians that might hold differing views from me. I believe the Spirit of God uses women in a mighty way. I just don’t believe there is biblical support to appoint female pastors. I have 3 observations I’d like you to consider:

1. There were no known women pastors in New Testament times.
2. None of the instructions regarding church order include instructions for female pastors (they are all for husbands and fathers!)
3. Some texts in the NT expressly forbid women from occupying that role.

Again, this does not diminish the role of women in the Kingdom of God. Where would the church be without the support of women? I will be the first to concede that women are often the most committed and hardest workers in the local church.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
2/8/19 7:11 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post jeremiah2911_4me
Carolyn Smith wrote:
The COG would not be as widespread in America, if it were it not for women preachers, who established & pastored many COG in the early years. Interesting that our forefathers of faith allowed that.



Or the PH Carolyn....Hopewell's first two pastors were ladies and where I am now the first pastor was a lady evangelist that stayed here almost 9 years....

When I was an intern pastor in the COG the church I served had been predominantly and successfully pastored by women and is still pastored by a woman today.
_________________
Pastor Mike
IPHC Pastor
You ARE a wonderful human being!!!
Acts-celerater
Posts: 938
2/8/19 9:44 am


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
Da Sheik wrote:
I acknowledge there are wise men and women who are strong Christians that might hold differing views from me. I believe the Spirit of God uses women in a mighty way. I just don’t believe there is biblical support to appoint female pastors. I have 3 observations I’d like you to consider:

1. There were no known women pastors in New Testament times.
2. None of the instructions regarding church order include instructions for female pastors (they are all for husbands and fathers!)
3. Some texts in the NT expressly forbid women from occupying that role.

Again, this does not diminish the role of women in the Kingdom of God. Where would the church be without the support of women? I will be the first to concede that women are often the most committed and hardest workers in the local church.


Again....the Bible plainly says for a woman to shut up at church. So, either follow the Bible or not.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
2/8/19 10:06 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Early in the COG Movement ... Mat
Early in the COG Movement there was a sincere effort to take into consideration all scriptures in regards to women's role in the church. That's why women could minister in the congregation/body, yet be asked to be silent in the business of the church (perhaps not to publicly disagree with their husbands). That may not have been the correct interpretation, but they were making the effort to comply with the "whole Bible, rightly divided."

Since the "ship" of "the husband of one wife" has sailed long ago (and no, the scripture does not say, "one wife at a time"), the issue now is positional authority. Times past, when questioning the authority of a woman to pastor a church the answer was she pastored the church under the authority of the overseer (a man) who appointed her. Phebe was sent to the Roman Church under the authority of the Apostle Paul, and he told them they better listen to her and help her as she ministered.

The church is not a business, not a secular institution or organization. Church leaders, even in assembly, conference or council, can not say "this is the way its going to be" and be-stole Bible truth to their collective command. The church must be as the every assemblies were, questions were raised and Bible answers were given.

I would agree the Bible model for marriage (between a man and a woman and the structural operation of the New Testament Church as revealed in scripture must not cancel each other out. One thing I know about men is (I confess to not understand women, especially my one and only wife) if their wives take on the duties the husband should carry, the husband will gladly let he.

Was the Apostle John speaking to a local church or a woman Pastor in II John? Why did he use the title "elder" for himself (an Apostle) and was the "elect (chosen) lady" a title of honor or position.

Mat
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1972
2/8/19 3:17 pm


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Here's the question you ask...if you really want to know where they stand.... Aaron Scott
Ask someone who is FOR women in all levels of leadership if they believe that the man is the head of the woman.

Almost always, the answer will be either that "head" means "source," which is a way of trying to skirt (hey!) the issue of authority. Thus, Jesus is not our head in terms of authority, apparently, but is our head in terms of...source.

OR, the other answer will be something along the lines of "No, the man is not the head of the woman--things have evolved."

The point I am making is that, in many cases (most? all?) the ones who most strongly support women in high leadership have already made a questionable interpretation (rejection?) of what the Bible has already stated about gender roles.

NOTE: These folks are still men and women of God, as good or better than anyone else, I imagine. I am simply noting what I have witnessed over the years in this discussion, namely that when you get right down to it, there is a significant divide about issues that seem quite clear in scripture (i.e., man as head of the woman).

I NO LONGER OPPOSE WOMEN IN LEADERSHIP. There is no clear statement in scripture that would lead us to say that women cannot be in high leadership. We have already rejected the most literal take on women keeping silence in the churches, so we cannot go back and try to use that to make our case. Instead, I think on issues like this, even if one side clearly has the weight of the scriptures on its side, we should not make such meaningful decisions on anything less than a clear word from the scripture (and this should be the case for doctrine, as well).
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6027
2/8/19 5:13 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
I Timothy and Titus have long been held as the most reliable means of objective qualifications for bishops and deacons. I concede that there were cultural problems in Ephesus and Corinth. But Paul appeals to Creation. When Adam & Eve sinned, God did not ask Eve where she was. From the very beginning, God created man to lead his home. This does not demean the role of women in the church.

Husbands are to love their wives like Christ loved the Church. So any idea that the husband is to rule the home as an unloving dictator is foreign to the New Testament. God created men and women very differently with specific strengths and weaknesses. Peter referred to the wife as the “weaker vessel” (I Pet 3:7). That doesn’t mean she’s inferior. I realize this is a “hot potato” but I believe we are in error by ordaining female pastors.

I think silently, the majority of the COG realizes this, and why subsequently they always vote down the title of “Bishop” for women. But the proverbial genie is out of the bottle, so this is a last ditch effort to course correct. These are merely my opinions, but I stand by my convictions.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
2/9/19 2:50 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post I found this post in the hot discussion forum. This subject has been debated here many x Dunamis007
From a poster now banned by a certain admin. in the hot discussion forum on should we allow women to speak in tongues. Kinda says it all i think.

WOMEN IN MINISTRY

PREAMBLE:
There is much for us to understand regarding women in Ministry. The word of God must always be interpreted by considering all of the scripture, from beginning to end, from Genesis to Revelation. The �Full Counsel� of God�s Word must be taken in the context written, not taking one verse out of context and then trying to build a doctrine based upon our preconceived biases.
The Assemblies of God, since the beginnings of our movement, believes in the supernatural ennoblement and gifting of the Holy Spirit. We have as a movement been blessed by many gifted women over the past century. In doing so, we see the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-29 in the Book of Acts, especially Acts 2:16-18. �This is that...�. Therefore, we as a movement and more importantly as part of the universal Body of Christ must recognize that when God speaks through His Word, He intends it to prevail for all eternity (�heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away� Luke 21:13). So when He says, �your daughters shall prophesy... and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit�, we must realize this is the Truth for all time.
We all agree that the Bible is always our final authority for all Truth taught. Yet there is much debate in some circles regarding the role of women in spiritual leadership and particularly in the government of the local church and in the greater scope of the Body at large.

SCRIPTURAL REFERENCES:
Let us examine in detail some of the more perplexing scriptures that have given rise to this honest debate among sincere Christians, even Spirit-Baptized believers.
The most problems stem from these two passages that the Apostle Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians 14: 34-36 & 1 Timothy 2: 11-12
These words have often been misinterpreted (innocently and not so innocently) and have been a source of perplexity to the Body, especially to many women who have a burning in their souls for service to the Lord. Many denominations have forbidden women to teach, preach, testify, or even pray audibly in church, based upon these scriptures.
Let us consider the whole counsel of God�s Word. In the Genesis account of creation, there is no sign of inequality between the sexes. In Genesis 1:26-28 both men & women were to subdue and have dominion over everything on earth. We must sometimes be reminded that Woman was taken from Adam�s side, not his foot and made as a helpmeet to man. This word for helper in the Hebrew is never understood as a subordinate role, rather it means suitable or one �corresponding� to Adam.
However, after the fall, a curse was laid upon the wife. This curse fell upon Eve, not as a woman, but as a wife. Women are not placed in a lower rank to men. However, there is a different relationship and distinction made between a husband and a wife. Wives do have a subordinate place in the family but not in the Lord. And yet even in the familial role, there is a lack of understanding as to what Genesis 3 is speaking of after the Fall when God says, �Man shall rule over you.� The rule there is not dominion, it is in fact an understanding that no longer will God be first in her life naturally but now she will fight the impulse to put her devotion for her husband before her God. That is the curse. But God never intended for that to be the case and in Christ the possibility exists for both men and women to put God back on His throne in their lives by putting Him first � naturally. Galatians 3:28 says �There is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ." Jesus showed us the way it would be in Heaven, (Mat 22:30 KJV) "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.�

Why would that be? Because in Heaven we will have glorified bodies, that is to say spiritual bodies. After all, God is Spirit and we shall be like Him. Therefore God places no limitations on the spiritual. What we have done is taken the relationship of husbands and wives and made these distinctions and limitations a part of our culture relating to women�s roles rather than to wives roles! In the Spiritual realm there are neither distinctions nor limitations made by God. Gal. 3:28. In fact, women are called �Sons of God" I John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God." John was writing to the entire church. In fact 3 John starts out, "to the elect lady" (most agree it is a church not only 'just for a woman). The verse continues... "and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when He appears we will be like Him: for we shall see Him as He is." Women will be like Him as much as men will, for we will ALL be spiritual.
So what is Paul trying to say to us in I Corinthians 14:34-36? �Women keep silent in the churches�:
In the original Greek, there is only one word for woman or wife, the word �Gune�. This word can be interpreted either as woman or wife depending upon the context of the sentence or usage. There is also only one word for man - none for husband. Verse 34 must be talking about a wife not a woman because in the context of the two verses taken together the word for man is translated husband in vs. 35 because the word home is used. Verse 35 says, �If they will learn, let them ask their husbands at home.� Since not all women have husbands, the sentence is better translated �Let your wives keep silence.�
Why would Paul tell the wives to keep silent and learn at home? In order to understand this better, you need to know how the early church (and the Jewish synagogues even today) was structured. There were cultural differences from today. The women/wives/girls were seated or stood on one side of the room while the men/husbands/boys were on the other side of the room. Can you imagine the discord (see Vs 33 confusion) that could arise if a wife were to ask a question of her husband on the other side of the room? Can you hear the chattering as women (who were not allowed to be educated in some cultures would talk among themselves to get an answer (learn at home)? In other words, he seems to be saying 1) don�t chatter 2) don�t disrupt by asking questions. As we see, the �whole counsel of God� must be used, for in 1 Cor. 11:5 Paul is certainly permitting women to pray and prophesy in corporate services.
Let us consider the other problem passage, I Timothy 2:11-15 �A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.� Paul again is not talking about women but wives here. Consider the fact that Paul is referring to Adam and Eve - husband and wife. Again, ask your husband at home, so as not to cause confusion in church meeting. Implying men were better informed than women were. In addition, it seems highly plausible that Paul is here addressing to Timothy some of the problems that this particular church (Ephesus) was having. There were some heretical teachings and practices going on and some of the problem was coming from the Ephesian women/wives. If you read the entire passage from 1 Timothy 2:9-15 you get a picture of a unique heresy involving these women.


Paul is making an application for this church and not necessarily an application universally applied to all churches for all time.

How can we say this?
As we have said in the beginning, all scripture should be interpreted in the light of what other scripture says from Genesis to Revelation.
I Corinthians 14:34 says, "Women keep silent in the church."
I Corinthians 11: 5 says, " Every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head." How can you prophesy and keep silent at the same time? (Some especially those who don't believe in gifts for today think prophesying is preaching). Acts 2:16,17 "this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will �see visions your old men will dream dreams�. This is what Joel prophesied and Peter said on the day of Pentecost. In Acts 1: 13-14, they were All (men/women) in the upper room. They continued �in prayer with the women�, so women were praying. Acts 5: 1 0 when the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius' household they were All filled. Mary the mother of Jesus prophesied. Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist prophesied. Luke 2:36 " Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher." prophesied in the temple, she prayed night and day. The Bible calls Anna a prophetess, which is the feminine form of prophet. Miriam, Moses sister was a prophet. Deborah from the Book of Judges not only ruled Israel but she also was a prophetess. Hilkiah the High Priest went to Huldah the prophetess of God in 2 Kings 22:14 to find out for King Josiah the word of the Lord.
Paul certainly would not prevent women from speaking messages given to them by the Holy Ghost because the Lord says, �your daughters shall prophesy�. Paul had to be saying, �I suffer not a wife to teach or usurp authority over her husband� or if in fact he was dealing with a unique situation he was not telling us that women must not rule or teach men! In fact, regarding that women should not teach men, we see in Acts 18:26 that Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos. Paul addresses in Rom. 16:3 Priscilla first when he salutes the church that meets at Priscilla and Aquila�s house �who have for my life laid down their own necks� (unusual to greet woman first, Paul respected women).
Again, we find the problem of translation in 1 Tim. 3:1-13 dealing with qualifications for ministry. While it is true that this passage deal primarily with male leadership, it is also true that it does so out of majority practices and expectations. Verse 11 also gives us some problems. The word translates wives here is the Greek �gunaikas� which can be translated as wives or women depending upon usage and the translator�s assumptions. One rendering gives us the impression of Deacon�s wives while the other rendering leads us to female spiritual leadership in the church. We know in reading Paul�s other epistles, especially Romans 16 that women in leadership roles were permitted. Romans 16:1-2 Phoebe is called a servant of the church. The Greek word diakonos translated here as servant. " I commend unto you Phoebe, a deaconess�.
Paul wrote to the church at Rome to the men as well as women "assist her".
Roman 16:3-4 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers", Roman 16:12 �salute Tryphena and. Tryphosa who labour in the Lord; salute Persis�. From the Greek we know these three are women. Rom. 16:7 Junia is a feminine name, she is called an Apostle.

JUST BECAUSE A PASSAGE IMPLIES MOST LEADERS WERE MEN DOES NOT AND CAN NOT BE MADE TO SAY WOMEN CANNOT BE LEADERS AS WELL.
Is the man the head of the woman? I Corinthians 11:3 says, � the head of every man is Christ, head of the wife is the husband, head of Christ is God. Is every man the head of every woman? No. A man is the head of one woman, his wife. The Greek word for man and husband in the New Testament is the same. �A husband is the head of his wife.� Paul in his writing is sometimes talking about women in general, other times he is strictly talking about wives. Christ is the head of the woman just as much as he is the head of man. Christ is the head of the Church. Paul was talking about family situations. He is not saying the husband is the wife's spiritual head. If that were true, the born-again wife, of an unsaved man, would not have a spiritual head. Jesus is the head of the Church. In Christ there is neither male nor female.
The first to go and. tell, (to preach means "to go tell") the good tiding of the Resurrection of Jesus was a woman. On the day of Pentecost and in Acts 4:31, they were all filled (men & women alike) with the Holy Ghost. In fact, Phillip had 4 daughters who were prophets (esses). Can women be ordained into the 5-fold ministry?

CONCLUSION:
In conclusion, we must remember, God is no respecter of persons, male or female. Husbands are to rule (in love) their homes with their wives in subjection to them (godly leadership). However, in the church of Jesus Christ, no matter our personal biases, there is neither male nor female. There may be practical problems that need to be addressed to deal with cultural situations but the ideal in Christ is for all to be submitted to the Lordship of Christ and be led by the Holy Spirit who gives gifts to (men/women) all flesh severally as He wills, not our wills! It is God who divinely calls and equips supernaturally and appoints and anoints for service and spiritual leadership. With the fields white unto harvest and the lack of harvesters available to reap, let us not be guilty of holding back any whom can help to bring in God�s bounty of souls. Let us rather consider how we may spur one another on towards love and good works and work while it is yet day!! May all of God�s vessels be available for and fit for the Master�s use!
Member
Posts: 29
2/9/19 3:49 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post UncleJD
Dean Steenburgh wrote:
You can't bring this subject to light w/out debate.
Just for the record I find it highly offensive for anyone to directly or indirectly align the anointing of women in ministry as the same as anointing homosexuals in ministry.
Anyone who does this needs a serious break through in an old fashion altar if you can remember what altars are used for.


Preach!
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3137
2/11/19 1:19 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Now, Tom... Aaron Scott
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
Some have been compromised and cannot speak objectively because their sisters, mothers, and grandmothers served as pastors.


My favorite line from the original post (albeit not original...)
"If you have an opinion other than mine, you are lacking in the objective consideration of scripture."

Priceless...




Consider the other side of the coin.... If someone is truly looking at a matter objectively, then it follows that any other conclusion must not be objective.

Ask yourself this, Tom: "Am I seeing this right...or are THEY seeing this right?" Obviously, you would believe you were seeing it correctly, since otherwise you'd hold a different view, right?

If the two sides see it differently, both can be wrong, but both cannot be right.

I have heard your side. I DO think it is a very solid argument and one that, I believe, seeks to be balanced and objective. Of course, since I see things differently, I happen to think my side is also balanceder and objectiver.

Since you aren't holding a position you don't believe is absolutely correct (nor am I), then aren't we really thinking the other person is seeing it wrong?

Love you. Hate your singing. OK, I don't hate your singing. I...KIND OF like it. But no more than that! Just "kind of." OK, I like it--sheesh!
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6027
2/12/19 4:01 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Acts-Celerate Post new topic   Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.