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 Roberts sides with liberals on abortion L |
caseyleejones |
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diakoneo |
Hey, wasn't he the same vote that upheld Obamacare???
Yes!
And you are correct abortions will continue to be legal... probably until the Return of Christ |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
2/8/19 6:45 am
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UncleJD |
| diakoneo wrote: | Hey, wasn't he the same vote that upheld Obamacare???
Yes!
And you are correct abortions will continue to be legal... probably until the Return of Christ |
Then I wonder who He will return for? If a large body of people who call themselves by His name, but stand by while their neighbors are cruelly slaughtered, do we just say "oh well, we voted for pro-life politicians and got upset when they used our taxes to do it", do we expect that He is just fine with that? (Yes, I'm being a little extreme because I'm extremely upset over 45 years of absolutely NO progress, yet with YEARS of so-called "pro-life" Republicans being in charge of all branches of government, all told)
Last edited by UncleJD on 2/8/19 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
2/8/19 10:17 am
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Dave Dorsey |
That's a discouraging result. Roberts is clearly laser-focused on the undue burden precedent at the expense of anything else.
...but, it's a little much IMO to say it will never change. It was a 5-4 vote. One more solid conservative justice could be what is needed to cause things to start changing. Ginsburg is 85, Breyer is 80. The oldest conservative justice is Thomas at 70.
I don't blame pro-lifers for being cynical, but I believe the movement is actually on the pinnacle of real change. Now is not the time to lose hope IMO. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/8/19 10:19 am
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UncleJD |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | That's a discouraging result. Roberts is clearly laser-focused on the undue burden precedent at the expense of anything else.
...but, it's a little much IMO to say it will never change. It was a 5-4 vote. One more solid conservative justice could be what is needed to cause things to start changing. Ginsburg is 85, Breyer is 80. The oldest conservative justice is Thomas at 70.
I don't blame pro-lifers for being cynical, but I believe the movement is actually on the pinnacle of real change. Now is not the time to lose hope IMO. |
If you're waiting on the courts to get conservative, don't hold your breath. The minute the next radical democrat takes office with a Senate majority, they will pack the court, then your 50 years of dreaming of a SCOTUS bail out will end. They've already said that's their plan. |
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Posts: 3138
2/8/19 10:45 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| UncleJD wrote: | | If you're waiting on the courts to get conservative, don't hold your breath. The minute the next radical democrat takes office with a Senate majority, they will pack the court, then your 50 years of dreaming of a SCOTUS bail out will end. They've already said that's their plan. |
I don't think that will happen, but it results in the same situation either way. When the conservatives return, they would then do the same thing.
I'm not sure a SCOTUS "bailout" is possible with precedent being what it is. There probably needs to be a constitutional amendment defining and protecting the rights of the unborn. But SCOTUS could chip away at it, which would save lives. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/8/19 10:57 am
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Nature Boy Florida |
Roberts has proven to not be a conservative.
Need Ginsburg to resign and Trump put another Clarence Thomas in.
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Posts: 16619
2/8/19 11:17 am
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UncleJD |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | If you're waiting on the courts to get conservative, don't hold your breath. The minute the next radical democrat takes office with a Senate majority, they will pack the court, then your 50 years of dreaming of a SCOTUS bail out will end. They've already said that's their plan. |
I don't think that will happen, but it results in the same situation either way. When the conservatives return, they would then do the same thing.
I'm not sure a SCOTUS "bailout" is possible with precedent being what it is. There probably needs to be a constitutional amendment defining and protecting the rights of the unborn. But SCOTUS could chip away at it, which would save lives. |
You are right, nothing short of a Constitutional amendment will ever bring a change from the political side of it. But to get there, I believe we have to change the hearts and minds of another at least 25% of Americans, assuming 50% are ACTUALLY pro-life today. The problem with that assumption is that I don't believe the Church has done its part convincing the laity of the horror of abortion. Someone mentioned yesterday that 1 in 6 women who have abortions claim to be regular church goers. Add to that the claim I hear over and over lately by people (mostly young women) who claim they are "pro-life", but believe it should be the "woman's right to choose". That is a terrible shame and reflection on the churches today. When the churches in the North became united against slavery to the extent that they were willing to act, then real change was inevitable. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
2/8/19 11:19 am
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Dave Dorsey |
| I agree with you. I think genuine conversion is the only thing that can accomplish that change of hearts and minds. I agree with you that many in the visible church hold pro-choice positions. Perhaps one thing we should come to terms with is the fact that many who attend our churches are members of the visible church, but are not members of Christ's invisible church. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/8/19 11:32 am
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UncleJD |
| Dave Dorsey wrote: | | I agree with you. I think genuine conversion is the only thing that can accomplish that change of hearts and minds. I agree with you that many in the visible church hold pro-choice positions. Perhaps one thing we should come to terms with is the fact that many who attend our churches are members of the visible church, but are not members of Christ's invisible church. |
Agreed on that, but its not our job to divide the wheat from the tares. We need to educate all of them. I believe that will actually go a long way to convert many among the luke-warm as well. What is more heartbreaking than abortion, and what is more beautiful than the love of Christ in that moment of sadness? I think a luke-warm church could wake up when the truth is shared. God help us to see what is happening to "the least of these". |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
2/8/19 12:09 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Agreed on that, but its not our job to divide the wheat from the tares. We need to educate all of them. |
Oh, for sure! I completely agree. But I do think there's a difference between an educational posture and an evangelistic posture.
I don't spend a lot of time worrying that my unsaved friends aren't living for Jesus, for example. Though it is neither our job to divide the wheat from the tears, nor is it possible for us to do so, perhaps we are missing it in part because we tend to assume professing believers are even when fruit and evidence is lacking, and overlook the gospel as a result.
I don't know. I feel like I'm kind of rambling, and also that we're pretty much saying the same things. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
2/8/19 12:12 pm
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| ....and if RBG dies and is replaced....more 5-4... to keep... |
caseyleejones |
| I remember under Reagan, Bush...and Trump.....WE all were thinking 5 to 4 reversed....but for some reason when it came up we got 5 to 4 to keep. |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11794
2/8/19 8:26 pm
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diakoneo |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Roberts has proven to not be a conservative.
Need Ginsburg to resign and Trump put another Clarence Thomas in. |
Yes... |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
2/10/19 9:21 am
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UncleJD |
| diakoneo wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Roberts has proven to not be a conservative.
Need Ginsburg to resign and Trump put another Clarence Thomas in. |
Yes... |
and then the next leftist lunatic to take office with a senate majority packs the court and reverses anything that might have gotten done. After 45 years, we have to stop chasing the wrong end of the problem. We have to get serious about changing hearts through the gospel and the truth that must be boldly proclaimed and put in the face of everyone who calls themselves Christian.
Sure, I'll vote against abortion every chance I get, but I no longer have any hope that it will ever change anything. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
2/10/19 10:44 am
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Resident Skeptic |
Convention of States.
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"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
2/10/19 11:31 am
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UncleJD |
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Convention of States. |
If that ever happens, odds are on secession or nullification by most conservative states. I'd hate to see it, but it would be better than a full-scale civil war. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
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2/11/19 2:53 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Resident Skeptic wrote: | | Convention of States. |
If that ever happens, odds are on secession or nullification by most conservative states. I'd hate to see it, but it would be better than a full-scale civil war. |
One of my heroes is Roger Williams, true Christian separatist.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
2/11/19 9:19 pm
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